Lets talk all things Star Wars

[blewis17]

Is this some deleted footage or fan movie bit with him and the girls...?

Don Bies posted here years ago that during the ROTJ: Special Edition filming (in which he wore the Fett costume for the new scenes in Jabba's palace with the singers) they basically ran over to the LF archives to pick up components for the Fett costume. Looks like they picked up the damaged jetpack : (

See photos here:

The Mandalorian (TV series)

I guess I just have to say, if you don't like the callbacks, the small universe feel, or the 'cartoon' characters, then I perfectly can see why this episode didn't really float your boat. I did like it though. I'm guilty of liking REBELS, TCW, & some of the novels, so I'm good with it. At the...

www.therpf.com

 

[Psab keel]

I'm an unapologetic Star Wars fan. I love the OT and enjoy a smattering of other things under that umbrella, but the OT is the basis for my love. The other lackluster material doesn't diminish my love for those original films. In fact it reinforces my love for them and makes me realize how insanely superior they are to anything else that has come out since. I don't need more, but if they're offering it, I would just prefer they treated the existing material with some respect. That includes putting a stop to needless, and seemingly endless, revisions.

Just remember brand loyalty is not the same thing as fandom. I love my family but it doesn't mean I agree with everything they do. That doesn't invalidate my feelings for them. Fandom is the same. We are under no obligation to like anything that doesn't speak to us and should seriously question the motives of fans who demand our undying loyalty or who try to question the validity of our fandom for not loving everything unconditionally. Likewise we should give room to those who disagree with our perspective, and even if we can't agree on the subject in the end, as long as they aren't doing the former I think we'll be just fine.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

^ That one. I just wish they'd hire me to replace Pablo and Leland. The amount of stuff they don't seem to know about their own lore or what makes something "Star Wars" baffles and dismays me. That, since the Disney buyout, no one read Rinzler's books and walked away with the kind of insights I and others in here have had about how the OT sausage was made, so they could step back and see, "Ah... Yes. That explains why things were so different from Star Wars to Empire and then from Empire to everything else." And then choose a different path from the one George started down in 1981.

I can point to every film and TV episode and book and comic and game that's come out since 1976 and point out what works and what doesn't in each -- objective storytelling and subjective "Swarziness", both. There's a Star Trek: The Next Generation novel that is the only book I've ever put down mid-sentence. I don't even know how the paragraph ended. The entire book had felt off. None of the characters "sounded" right. And then a shuttle was on its way back up from the planet, they hadn't been able to raise it, and landed it by tractor beam in the main shuttlebay. Picard goes down to find out what is going on ASAP. The problem sentence had him pacing outside the doors to the shuttlebay, impatiently waiting for the outer doors to close and "for the huge bay to repressurize". Anyone who's been paying attention to Star Trek since 1979 knows that -- at least since the 2270s -- they have forcefields to maintain atmosphere inside the bay when it's open to space. They show this quite prominently on TNG in the first few seasons, prior to when this book was written. I closed it in disgust, right then and there.

That's the same level of not doing their homework I see way, way too many of the Star Wars content creators getting away with, from novel writers to comic book writers to screenwriters to costume designers, etc. I love the universe. I am just increasingly rankled that people who don't enough to research what they're writing/creating are muddying things so badly. It's like watching morons play Jenga with something precious on the top of the tower.

 

[Pepperbone]

I don't have the writing skills to truly express how I feel about Star Wars, and more specifically how it made me feel when the movies came out - especially ANH and ESB. But I will say this: for those of us fortunate enough to be present at a young age, especially in 77; the entertainment and merchandise world was very different back then. I'm not going to say that there was nothing prior to Star Wars, but I can say that, for a 7 year old, there's life before it, and life after. Being a kid around that age during the release of something like SW, in world where there was nothing like it, embeds a young soul with everlasting memories.

 

[Wolfsburg]

I just wish they'd hire me to replace Pablo and Leland. The amount of stuff they don't seem to know about their own lore or what makes something "Star Wars" baffles and dismays me.

I remember butting heads with ol' Pablo when he was a moderator on the old StarWars.com forums 20+ years ago. How he ever got in the position he is now, I'll never know. He's always been a tool and not nearly as saavy as he has conned people into thinking he is.

 

[Psab keel]

What makes it so aggregious is the fact that they brag about having an overarching canon where every film, tv show, comic, etc is now under one cohesive canon. Yet they constantly contradict their own stories with impunity. So it's laughable to take that idea seriously.

It would be another thing altogether if they compartmentalized each division within the franchise the way Lucas did. At least that was a more honest approach. Lucas himself understood this. His films were the core of the story and the shows he produced or had a hand in, like Clone Wars, were official. The novels, the comics, the video games, all were like bonus material. They existed in their own bubble and he left them each compartmentalized to not have to deal with ideas conflicting with one another, and in this way he wouldn't have to veto a good idea if it didn't mesh.

Now everything has to mesh, and yet ironically a lot of it simply DOESN'T. Even the new films directly contradict one another. It's crazy.

 

[Pepperbone]

^ That one. I just wish they'd hire me to replace Pablo and Leland. The amount of stuff they don't seem to know about their own lore or what makes something "Star Wars" baffles and dismays me. That, since the Disney buyout, no one read Rinzler's books and walked away with the kind of insights I and others in here have had about how the OT sausage was made, so they could step back and see, "Ah... Yes. That explains why things were so different from Star Wars to Empire and then from Empire to everything else." And then choose a different path from the one George started down in 1981.

I can point to every film and TV episode and book and comic and game that's come out since 1976 and point out what works and what doesn't in each -- objective storytelling and subjective "Swarziness", both. There's a Star Trek: The Next Generation novel that is the only book I've ever put down mid-sentence. I don't even know how the paragraph ended. The entire book had felt off. None of the characters "sounded" right. And then a shuttle was on its way back up from the planet, they hadn't been able to raise it, and landed it by tractor beam in the main shuttlebay. Picard goes down to find out what is going on ASAP. The problem sentence had him pacing outside the doors to the shuttlebay, impatiently waiting for the outer doors to close and "for the huge bay to repressurize". Anyone who's been paying attention to Star Trek since 1979 knows that -- at least since the 2270s -- they have forcefields to maintain atmosphere inside the bay when it's open to space. They show this quite prominently on TNG in the first few seasons, prior to when this book was written. I closed it in disgust, right then and there.

That's the same level of not doing their homework I see way, way too many of the Star Wars content creators getting away with, from novel writers to comic book writers to screenwriters to costume designers, etc. I love the universe. I am just increasingly rankled that people who don't enough to research what they're writing/creating are muddying things so badly. It's like watching morons play Jenga with something precious on the top of the tower.

Maybe things will change.
Maybe they'll course-correct, eventually.
And maybe that'll be your moment to connect with them and contribute your expertise.
You never know!

 

[Psab keel]

Pepperbone There is a generational experience those of us older fans had when those movies came out. There was a distinct benchmark in the world and it literally changed everything. It's really hard to capture in words what that felt like. I mean I was born in 81 but I grew up with Star Wars while it was in it's heyday so I had that visceral experience, even if I was a little younger than some of you.

There was a time before Star Wars and there was a time after Star Wars.

 

[Wolfsburg]

What makes it so aggregious is the fact that they brag about having an overarching canon where every film, tv show, comic, etc is now under one cohesive canon. Yet they constantly contradict their own stories with impunity. So it's laughable to take that idea seriously.

It would be another thing altogether if they compartmentalized each division within the franchise the way Lucas did. At least that was a more honest approach. Lucas himself understood this. His films were the core of the story and the shows he produced or had a hand in, like Clone Wars, were official. The novels, the comics, the video games, all were like bonus material. They existed in their own bubble and he left them each compartmentalized to not have to deal with ideas conflicting with one another, and in this way he wouldn't have to veto a good idea if it didn't mesh.

Now everything has to mesh, and yet ironically a lot of it simply DOESN'T. Even the new films directly contradict one another. It's crazy.

When the old EU was wiped out, I was at peace with it (since there was plenty about it I didn't like) as long as the material going forward under Disney ownership was quality, not to mention cohesive. They have not succeeded in that endeavor as far as I'm concerned.

Knowing SW trivia is one thing but to understand what works and what doesn't is something else entirely.

 

[Psab keel]

I absorbed everything Star Wars as a teenager. For a lot of kids after the 1980's ended Star Wars faded out of their interests but it never left me and when the EU came about I read all the novels. I wasn't so much into the games and I had a few of the comics but the novels scratched that itch for me. Eventually those lost their luster and the wealth of content became too much to absorb so I stopped.

I revisited a few of them in adulthood and they were definitely a mixed bag. Some were great, others were downright awful. Some were a mix of both all within the same novel. I agree with you whole heartedly though that trivia is one thing. It's a parlor trick you use to impress your friends and it can be fun. But it's another thing entirely to understand the basic rules of fiction. Character, motivation, theme. Those things are crucial and if all you know is lore without an understanding of those basic rules, the lore is useless.

 

[Pepperbone]

I love Batman (where is this going?!)

I certainly don't want to offend anybody here - this is just my opinion - but to me the sequels feel a little bit like Joel Schumacher's Batman movies. Entertaining, colorful, but not my cup of tea.

After Batman and Robin came out, I thought I was done with Batman. It felt like this is where things were going from now on, and I would move onto something else. I had my Beta copies of Burton's Batman movies and believed I'd be enjoying those for as long as I could.

Then Nolan came along, and I was back in a big way.

What I am hoping is that a little bit of time will pass, ideas will mature, and creative individuals will return to restore Star Wars to the full glory it deserves. A cohesive, compelling, well written, well performed spectacle for all ages that will keep me up at night.

Do I believe that's possible? Yup. I do.
Until then I'll just continue hoping. It's free, and doesn't hurt anyone.

 

[batguy]

IMO most people don't understand their own motives half as well as they think they do. Fans point to this problem or that one to explain what was wrong with a movie. But the overall tone and storytelling quality is usually the deciding factor.

TLJ has some logic problems and SW fans constantly complain about them. Really? ESB has glaring logic problems. The difference is that people like ESB enough to overlook the flaws. They don't like TLJ enough to overlook anything.


Indiana Jones nuking the fridge is the same principle. I mean, really? That's a deal-breaker? He fell out of a plane in 'Temple' and landed on a mountainside in an inflatable raft. Some guy was tearing hearts out of living victims. In 'Raiders' Indy went on a sea voyage clinging to a submarine's periscope. In 'Crusade' he couldn't see a stone bridge directly under his toes because a medieval artist did a matte painting on it.

The problem with the nuked fridge was not the implausibility of the fridge saving him. That scene was just a lightning rod for people's broader dissatisfaction with the whole movie.

 

[ScourgiousJinx]

What I am hoping is that a little bit of time will pass, ideas will mature, and creative individuals will return to restore Star Wars to the full glory it deserves. A cohesive, compelling, well written, well performed spectacle for all ages that will keep me up at night.

Do I believe that's possible? Yup. I do.
Until then I'll just continue hoping. It's free, and doesn't hurt anyone.

I share the exact sentiment. I want to love Star Wars and will probably forever give it a chance to do so.

 

[sztriki]

IMO most people don't understand their own motives half as well as they think they do. Fans point to this problem or that one to explain what was wrong with a movie. But the overall tone and storytelling quality is usually the deciding factor.

TLJ has some logic problems and SW fans constantly complain about them. Really? ESB has glaring logic problems. The difference is that people like ESB enough to overlook the flaws. They don't like TLJ enough to overlook anything.


Indiana Jones nuking the fridge is the same principle. I mean, really? That's a deal-breaker? He fell out of a plane in 'Temple' and landed on a mountainside in an inflatable raft. Some guy was tearing hearts out of living victims. In 'Raiders' Indy went on a sea voyage clinging to a submarine's periscope. In 'Crusade' he couldn't see a stone bridge directly under his toes because a medieval artist did a matte painting on it.

The problem with the nuked fridge was not the implausibility of the fridge saving him. That scene was just a lightning rod for people's broader dissatisfaction with the whole movie.

This is spot on. I call this the "Jar-Jar Effect", most people cite Jar-Jar as what they hate about TPM but in reality there's plenty worse things in that movie, it's just easier to grab onto something that obvious or simple.

 

[Wolfsburg]

I agree they all have logic problems though I do think they vary in severity or plausibility. I’ve never loved Temple of Doom but relatively speaking, it *seems* more plausible that one could *potentially* survive falling out of a low flying, slow, vintage plane in a large raft over surviving a very close nuclear blast in a refrigerator, regardless of whether it really is. I think it depends on how much they ask the audience to suspend disbelief. For me, in my unscientific moviegoing mind, the former is not as extreme as the latter.

 

[Psab keel]

The rule in speculative fiction is the more outlandish the setting or plot, the more grounded and believable the characters have to be for an audience to suspend their disbelief to get emotionally invested in the story. Sometimes though the boundaries can be pushed so far that it becomes absurd. Just because it's fiction doesn't mean you shouldn't show at least some restraint.

The problem with the later additions to Star Wars and Indiana Jones is that more often than not the characters acted in ways that didn't mesh with what had been established with their previous actions, or their motivations were unclear. Doing something crazy in a space fantasy movie, or a supernatural based adventure film is to be expected. What people don't expect or want is to be pushed too far over the edge where the imminent threat of death becomes irrelevant.

Even as a kid I scoffed at the idea of a life raft being used as a parachute and then falling down an insanely high cliff to be just, well, stupid. It was a creative misstep in an otherwise really great movie. It took me out of the story and it still does. Especially now with hi definition television and blurays where I can clearly see dummies in that liferaft the second it hits the snowy mountain top. Though I brace myself for it and because I know it's coming when I watch it, I just roll with it. The fridge was the least of KOTCS's problems and the prevelance of fan contention with that sequence, glossed over a host of other issues that plagued that movie.

Where it comes to outlandish things it's always a matter of preference and what some can chalk up to being a trope of the genre, others get pushed too far over the edge where they are taken out of the story. I think fan objection stems from the very obvious choices that filmmakers these days not showing ANY restraint and just feel the need to do whatever they think is interesting rather than showing commitment to what best serves the story. Things like adhering to the tried and true rules of fiction, continuity, lore/ canon, and substance over style are not taken into account so much as satisfying the ego of the writer.

It's the difference between amatuer writing and really great writing. Just because fiction isn't true, doesn't mean an audience will buy anything they sell. That insults the intelligence of the audience and distain towards them on the part of the one telling the story. Sadly a lot of people don't realize when they're being talked down to.

 

[JediMichael]

 

[blewis17]

I don't have the writing skills to truly express how I feel about Star Wars, and more specifically how it made me feel when the movies came out - especially ANH and ESB. But I will say this: for those of us fortunate enough to be present at a young age, especially in 77; the entertainment and merchandise world was very different back then. I'm not going to say that there was nothing prior to Star Wars, but I can say that, for a 7 year old, there's life before it, and life after. Being a kid around that age during the release of something like SW, in world where there was nothing like it, embeds a young soul with everlasting memories.

Well said!

I fondly remember saving my allowance, hoping for a trip to Penny's, Sears, Zayre, or Lionel Playworld to pick up carded SW figures for $1.99 each. I remember seeing the Death Sar Droid for sale at a strip mall tourist shop in Fort Lauderdale for $4.99 and thought "What a rip-off!!"

Got the pair of C3P0 and R2-D2 first, then Vader from Penny's and Obi-Wan from Sears (had to have a duel!)

For those here not in their 5th decade, you youngins have to know there was NO internet, NO Amazon, NO cable TV, NO social media. NO hyper analysis video of movies/comics/toys available 24/7 on YouTube. And really, there was NO critical analysis of toys at the time. You only saw TV advertisements, work-in SW posters and glasses at Burger King and Burger Chef, MAYBE some magazines (comics), and whatever you happened to glimpse in the Toy Aisle when your mom had to stop by K-Mart for a new mop.

You were ALWAYS anticipating the next reveal, it was never spoiled.

This video will give you a little insight into what the times were like back then...

 

[Psab keel]

There is something to be said for simplicity.

 

[Pepperbone]

It's crazy how much impact it had.

I've often wondered if the younger generation - such as those who were at "that" age when Harry Potter came out - had a similar experience. Might be too early to tell.