Bigdaddy
Master Member
While I agree with most of your points, you are exemplifying exactly why the term should stay in it's fictional universe.
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Regarding timekeeping stuff, this goes back to the first film. George's script kept things vague. Owen referred to things locally and relatively (morning, midday), and Han used the vague "moments". The only hard-and-fast anything is him saying they'll be at Alderaan by "oh-two-hundred" (0200), a military timekeeping method and one of the subtle things hinting at him being former military, but also likely a reference to the internal schedule he keeps his ship on, independent of local time where he goes.
When Marcia did her last-minute re-edit and added the ticking-clock of the Death Star attacking the Rebel base, all of the added off-screen dialogue was in minutes, on both the station and the moon, for the time to acquiring a firing solution.
I'll grant that the "earthisms" have been more numerous and jarring in the ST.
There's no real good solution. Brian Daley, in the old Han Solo novels, gave us "standard time-parts", in context an analogue for hours. There's been stuff that standard timekeeping has been by Coruscant/Imperial Center time, and planets in the Republic have something like the old newsroom wall with clocks showing the local time everywhere on Earth, but in that case local time and time on the capitol. I imagine Rey, having spend most of her conscious life on Jakku, and with a lot of the population in and around Niima Outpost not being spacers, she's in the habit of using local relative terms. When she says "weeks", she means Jakku weeks, etc.
As for Finn, I get the impression, from the mix of prefixes we hear on the Starkiller, that that planet is essentially "home base" for a lot of the First Order's operations. He probably grew up there, and we know he spent a lot of time there, despite being ostensibly "stationed" to the Finalizer. For him, that probably is "the sun". His sun, his home star, because he knows no other home.
The lack of clarity on those two points is part of the over-compressed timeline of those films and general ongoing lack of awareness of what needs to be on the screen and what doesn't. If they'd had the breathing room, a couple added lines would have taken up less than a minute of screen time and made everything clearer. Like... "It draws its power from the sun." "From... you mean from the system's primary. That sun?" "Yeah. Sorry. That's the only one I've ever known."
And HeartBlade, I've wanted to contact the authors of that piece to clarify many of the points that you do, as well as the fact that Lucasfilm was always a bit ahead of the curve as far as inclusiveness. Lando wasn't written black (see McQuarrie's paintings). They just cast the best actor to fit the character. The heads of the Rebel forces in Star Wars and ROTJ are women. And yes, we've got non-male, non-white, and non-human Jedi all over the Prequels, but that was twenty years after the OT subliminally created the "knights and swords" male imagery of the Jedi. Despite Yoda.
When Marcia did her last-minute re-edit and added the ticking-clock of the Death Star attacking the Rebel base, all of the added off-screen dialogue was in minutes, on both the station and the moon, for the time to acquiring a firing solution.
I'll grant that the "earthisms" have been more numerous and jarring in the ST.
There's no real good solution. Brian Daley, in the old Han Solo novels, gave us "standard time-parts", in context an analogue for hours. There's been stuff that standard timekeeping has been by Coruscant/Imperial Center time, and planets in the Republic have something like the old newsroom wall with clocks showing the local time everywhere on Earth, but in that case local time and time on the capitol. I imagine Rey, having spend most of her conscious life on Jakku, and with a lot of the population in and around Niima Outpost not being spacers, she's in the habit of using local relative terms. When she says "weeks", she means Jakku weeks, etc.
As for Finn, I get the impression, from the mix of prefixes we hear on the Starkiller, that that planet is essentially "home base" for a lot of the First Order's operations. He probably grew up there, and we know he spent a lot of time there, despite being ostensibly "stationed" to the Finalizer. For him, that probably is "the sun". His sun, his home star, because he knows no other home.
The lack of clarity on those two points is part of the over-compressed timeline of those films and general ongoing lack of awareness of what needs to be on the screen and what doesn't. If they'd had the breathing room, a couple added lines would have taken up less than a minute of screen time and made everything clearer. Like... "It draws its power from the sun." "From... you mean from the system's primary. That sun?" "Yeah. Sorry. That's the only one I've ever known."
And HeartBlade, I've wanted to contact the authors of that piece to clarify many of the points that you do, as well as the fact that Lucasfilm was always a bit ahead of the curve as far as inclusiveness. Lando wasn't written black (see McQuarrie's paintings). They just cast the best actor to fit the character. The heads of the Rebel forces in Star Wars and ROTJ are women. And yes, we've got non-male, non-white, and non-human Jedi all over the Prequels, but that was twenty years after the OT subliminally created the "knights and swords" male imagery of the Jedi. Despite Yoda.
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I don't think it was intentional, it's just how they sat on the mounting pipes. You can see them mounting the Vader TIE in the old making-of special, and seems like a fairly loose fit around the pipe.
As for "hell", Uncle Owen uses the word as well.
As for "hell", Uncle Owen uses the word as well.
Yes I cringe every time I hear that on the old or reboot series. It doesn't sound natural. An effort was made though.
BSG's units would have worked better if they'd been thought through, nailed down, put in a writers' bible, and used consistently. I frequently use their epithets, though. 
HeartBlade
Sr Member
Its more the issue is that the article’s argument (term “jedi” should not be used to promote social justice) is based on 2 premises that the article improperly defends due to very obvious holes in the logic proposed which thereby undermines their argument.
They are arguing based in both in-universe and out-universe rationale that the jedi dont exemplify the social justice. However, the in-universe argument is a strawman, twisting the interpretation of the jedi and what they do to fit their narrative.
If sticking with just the OT, then yes you could argue that jedi are only white men (assuming you ignore green alien Yoda) but slight in-depth research shows that Lucas offered the role of Obi Wan to a Japanese actor. By conception, the jedi are not necessarily meant to be restricted to white men. I also take issue with the idea that Star Wars is ableist because it depicts Vader as disabled. Despite his disability, he is still the most feared and powerful warrior in the narrative, second only to the Emperor.
A better critique of the jedi in Star Wars would have been their passivity, the assumption that they no best and try not to intervene, thereby letting tragedies like slavery in Tatooine to persist while they sit in their ivory tower. The jedi also still seek a top-down approach to their issues, for a magical “one” to arrive to defeat the Sith and solve all their problems which is antithetical to what social justice should be. Jedi could be seen as a warning rather than an aspiration in this case.
I also take issue with the arguments proposed out of universe. Saying Disney benefits from the positive PR of using Jedi doesnt sit well with me given the fact that Disney didnt invent Jedi or Star Wars apart from owning the IP. A better example of this may be Nike with live strong or their campaigns promoting feminism and diversity given the fact that they still exploit third world labor to produce their products. The argument also hides the fact that SJ probably adopted Jedi because it is attention grabbing and the positive externalities Star Wars/Disney receives could be outweighed by the good that could be done adopting the term. Getting attention on social issues hard so if adopting a well known term from a globally popular IP to rally people toward a good cause gets numbers, thats a win.
I do think the later two points in the article gives some food for thought on the role and drawbacks of using popular media to rally people toward doing good for society but the way the points of focus and disingenuous presentation of the facts undermined the argument imo.
Earth-isms -
I agree that there's usually no good solution. About all they can do is avoid references to stuff. Units of time, money currency, etc.
That said . . . why is "centons" ill-fitting and distracting, but not "parsecs"? I think a lot of this stuff boils down to finer points of the usage and how we feel about the show.
I agree that there's usually no good solution. About all they can do is avoid references to stuff. Units of time, money currency, etc.
That said . . . why is "centons" ill-fitting and distracting, but not "parsecs"? I think a lot of this stuff boils down to finer points of the usage and how we feel about the show.
Riceball
Master Member
Because parsec is an actual unit of measurement whereas centons aren't.
Bigdaddy
Master Member
Thanks, I appreciate differing opinions.
this was amazing!!! i got goosebumps
Riceball
Master Member
Love Matt Easton.
Lucasfilm Announces New Star Wars Books Starring Classic Characters
Next year will see the release of several new Star Wars novels featuring characters from the original and prequel trilogies.
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