Lets talk all things Star Wars

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Does anyone know who or what was in the other Escape Pod from the Tantive IV? Ever talked about in the Expanded Universe?

The only reason I ask is because one of the gunners says "There goes another one"..

I just assumed as a kid that due to damage to the ship they were just randomly launching. It could also be that the crew was randomly launching them as decoys so when they launched R2 and C-3PO the Imperials would assume it was just another random launch.

 

[DarkHelmet]

Wait a minute, I never thought about this. Is it possible there were other prisoners from the Tantive besides Leia on the Death Star?

If I recall, I read in one of the early script drafts that Leia was the only person who survived. Vader killed everyone and then told the Senate the ship was destroyed and all aboard were killed in an asteroid hit.

 

[Master Boda]

I just assumed as a kid that due to damage to the ship they were just randomly launching. It could also be that the crew was randomly launching them as decoys so when they launched R2 and C-3PO the Imperials would assume it was just another random launch.

That is how I understood it as well.The imperials scanned and detected no life forms,the officer informed Lord Vader that a escape pod had jettisoned during the fight.

 

[Master Boda]

If I recall, I read in one of the early script drafts that Leia was the only person who survived. Vader killed everyone and then told the Senate the ship was destroyed and all aboard were killed in an asteroid hit.

IIRC there was a imperial R2/R4 droid along with stormtroopers leading rebel prisoners down the hall of the Tantive IV.Granted we don’t see on screen their fate but I assumed they lived and were brought to the DeathStar with Leia.The line with Vader telling the officer to tell the senate was in the movie so it could be a possibility it was in a early draft that made it to screen and no prisoners were taken other than Leia.

 

[Laspector]

Yeah, but if there is a prison level on the Death Star, most likely not all the prisoners are Imperials. Whether they came from the Tantive IV or not.

Casualties of war I guess.

 

[Solo4114]

A analysis of the franchise in it’s current state. As bad as it sounds, she’s kinda right.

Man, that was hard to get thru.

I mean, I know it's a thing that happens in Youtube videos (which is a big part of why I almost never watch them), but these "I'm going to talk over clips of footage" videos always seem to do this weird sound editing where they dovetail parts of the line they say into the next part of the line to complete a sentence, and it just ends up sounding weird and choppy. I cannot stand that kind of thing, so it made it really, really hard to listen to this woman speak.

The effect for me is like if I started talking in the middle of my sentence and then ever so slightly altered my delivery of what it is I'm saying, all without ever completing a single thought in the same breath.

ANYWAY....

This mostly just boiled down to me as "I don't like Disney Star Wars, and I don't get why other people do, so I'm going to hypothesize about what they enjoy and why, while also being incapable of setting aside my own existing bias." Plus, audio shenanigans.

I enjoyed Kenobi. I've enjoyed most of the new Star Wars, with the exception of JJ's entries, which I view as deeply, deeply flawed precisely because of JJ's own tendencies as a storyteller. The rest, though, I've really liked. And I think I can explain what it is that I like about it, and why the flaws -- which I do acknowledge exist -- just...don't really bother me. And it's not because "It's not as bad as what it was before." It's because...well, I think it's because I've changed as a person and how I approach fandom writ large has changed.

I kind of think I went through what a lot of people have been going through in the Disney era, only my experience of that was with the prequel era. I was a HUGE Star Wars fan when the prequels came out. I'd grown up with it, watched it every Sunday morning like going to church (we weren't a religious family), I read the books -- including some of the really bad ones -- and played the video games and collected the comic books and so on and so forth. I'd been eagerly anticipating the release of the prequels since I first heard about them as an idea when I was about 9 years old. I'd learned a bunch of the backstory and had my own image of what they were "supposed" to be. I'd also grown up some in the time between when ROTJ had come out and when TPM came out, and I was expecting that Star Wars was going to basically grow with me. It never occurred to me that the film wouldn't be "interested" in me as an audience...until I watched TPM.

Long story short, the prequel era made it clear that Star Wars as an ongoing franchise was moving in a very different direction from what I wanted, and that both pissed me off and actually kinda hurt. Here was this franchise I'd loved, and now it was making it clear that it was offering nothing to me going forward. I kinda burned out on Star Wars at that point and took a break from it while the rest of my life changed.

It was that break that really shifted how I approached fandom overall. I basically detached myself from fandom, which was fine, because I had plenty of other stuff going on. I had several other experiences during this time of being burned by my own fandom of something, too (BSG, HIMYM, Game of Thrones, etc.) and those experiences basically taught me to stop investing so much into my experience of a piece of entertainment. Instead, take it mostly as it comes, and if it doesn't keep me entertained, move on.

I'm still a fan of this or that franchise, but I'm less...hmm...connected to it, I guess I'd say. As a result, I'm much more take-or-leave-it with my fandom of things. If I enjoy it, great. If not, meh, so what. There'll be another bus coming along soon enough. And if the whole thing goes to hell, well...ok. Life goes on and I'll find something else to enjoy.

I have no evidence of this, but I suspect that's happened to other fans of this franchise as well, and it's a huge part of why they aren't bothered by the Disney output. I genuinely do enjoy it, too, and I find a lot of good in it, even. And the flaws, well...they just don't bother me that much. Like, I recognize they're there, I just don't care and I'm not really thinking about it. Instead, I'm choosing to focus on what I enjoy, and there's plenty of that. Much of this comes from my own detachment, but I suppose part of it is also a choice on my part to focus on what I enjoy, and ignore the rest. Not because "Ugh, I have to ignore this and pretend it's not there just so I can enjoy this stuff," but rather because...meh, whatever. I just don't care. With Kenobi, the one big thing that stood out to me was the sequence where Luke's being chased by the crazy lady (whose motivations never quite made sense to me), and thinking "Does he, like, forget this? This is weird that it never came up before." But then I shrugged, and just went with it, and still ended up enjoying the series overall.

 

[batguy]

I still think the deal-breaker was the lack of any larger consistent storyline in the Disney era.

The modern entertainment landscape is PACKED FULL of franchises that will give you a storyline that runs for a year or two. Star Wars was unique in the Lucas era because there was a sense of a multi-decade plan going way beyond that.

You can watch 'Fast & Furious' movies and get a big-budget soap opera. You don't really care who lives or dies in the latest movie because it's all subject to change. Nothing matters. No stakes. Disney basically turned Star Wars into that.

 

[Joek3rr]

Who has a copy of the Star Wars Chronicles book handy? I'm looking for some information.

I was reading about the Victory Class Star Destroyer on Wookieepedia the other day. And in the Behind the Scenes section it says that design of the ship developed from the Colin Cantwell's Star Destroyer. Which of course looks like this.

The Victory Class looks like this though.

Or at least that's the appearance I'm familiar with. Doesn't look very much like Colin's model. But the Wookieepedia page says that was developed from his model and cites the Star Wars Chronicles book as the source.

Did some Google searching and the only thing I could find was some of Joe Johnston's concept art, that looks to have been the inspiration. So I'm wondering where does the idea that Colin's model was used as the inspiration comes from?

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

The Chronicles book does title the Cantwell model "Prototype" and then has info on the Victory class Star Destroyer. I *think* at the time the Chronicles book came out, the look of the Victory as already set. I'm guessing the West End Games sourcebooks probably had an illustration before that. It's definitely based on the last drawing though because it has the wings.

 

[Wolfsburg]

I wonder if it would've been more accurate for the VSD to be described as "inspired" by Cantwell's early art insomuch that the VSD looked like a less refined, more primitive looking ISD.

I still think it's a shame George didn't embrace these early Cantwell designs in the PT and I'm still a bit amazed we still haven't seen a version of the VSD in the Disney era given the number of projects that take place between RotS and ANH. I had heard some of the concept artists toyed with using Cantwell's TIE fighter, in Solo I think(?), but I guess the powers that be decided against it.

I also wish they canon had maintained the unique feature of the VSD being the largest Imperial craft that was able to operate in an atmosphere. Now even huge ISDs can apparently do that with no issues.

 

[Joek3rr]

I wonder if it would've been more accurate for the VSD to be described as "inspired" by Cantwell's early art insomuch that the VSD looked like a less refined, more primitive looking ISD.

I still think it's a shame George didn't embrace these early Cantwell designs in the PT

It would have be nice to see that. But with that said, they definitely used his designs for inspiration. The Delta-7 is inspired by his delta wing "Sith" fighter. And I just noticed yesterday that if you take an Acclamator and stretch it out a bit. Have it fly the other direction. Put some dish shaped lasers weaponry on it, you totally have Colin's "Sith" carrier.

and I'm still a bit amazed we still haven't seen a version of the VSD in the Disney era given the number of projects that take place between RotS and ANH. I had heard some of the concept artists toyed with using Cantwell's TIE fighter, in Solo I think(?), but I guess the powers that be decided against it.

Yep they had concept art of interpretation of Colin's TIE made. It even made it into the TIE Fighter workshop manual. So it is "canonically" a prototype TIE. EC Henry talks about it in his latest video.

I also wish they canon had maintained the unique feature of the VSD being the largest Imperial craft that was able to operate in an atmosphere. Now even huge ISDs can apparently do that with no issues.

Though the visual is incredibly powerful. I agree you have to draw the line somewhere. Not every ship should be able to do that. Though Venators at 1,137 meters can operate in atmosphere. That's 237 meters longer then an VSD. And only 437 meters shorter then an ISD.

 

[Wolfsburg]

Yeah good points. I guess I wish George had made things look just a little ungainly and more primitive looking, just to show some design evolution to what we see in the OT. The Republic using Cantwell TIEs would've been a hoot.

 

[batguy]

Yeah good points. I guess I wish George had made things look just a little ungainly and more primitive looking, just to show some design evolution to what we see in the OT. The Republic using Cantwell TIEs would've been a hoot.

George wanted the opposite in the PT. The civilization was at a higher point in the PT and the ships were more elegant with a sense of style. In the OT everything had gone utilitarian out of necessity.

The rebels in particular were using raggedy repurposed vehicles with access panels open and stuff cannibalized together. Think of the cars & trucks that the human resistance fighters were using in the 'Terminator' movies.

 

[Wolfsburg]

Yeah I never liked how he handled any of that. Technology and innovation tend to flourish in times of war but somehow the tech in the PT looked far more modern and advanced than what we see 30 years later.

I would've much preferred he stuck with the retro 70s futuristic look of the Cantwell/McQuarrie/Johnston concepts over the aesthetic he instead went with. It's a much more unique look and would've meshed better with what we already had. I would've far preferred the clonetroopers look like the early, somewhat wonky stormtrooper concepts than the weird Mando/stormtrooper mashup he went with.

 

[batguy]

Tech flourishes during times of war but elegance & styling does not. Years of warfare would have given the rebel ships better engines & targeting computers. It wouldn't have made them look pretty.

I also think we are looking at it from 20th-century eyes if we expect major changes in the tech during a few years/decades. The SW universe is more likely to be too evolved for that. The tech would probably be much more stabilized.

As for Cantwell's stuff, IMO it's interesting but I don't crave more of it in SW. The existing OT stuff looked more developed. And Cantwell's ships all seem to have the same shape. Triangular, pointed nose, big engines in the back. The stuff in the movies has much more variety.

 

[ghostryder]

 

[Joek3rr]

Tech flourishes during times of war but elegance & styling does not. Years of warfare would have given the rebel ships better engines & targeting computers. It wouldn't have made them look pretty.

I also think we are looking at it from 20th-century eyes if we expect major changes in the tech during a few years/decades. The SW universe is more likely to be too evolved for that. The tech would probably be much more stabilized.

As for Cantwell's stuff, IMO it's interesting but I don't crave more of it in SW. The existing OT stuff looked more developed. And Cantwell's ships all seem to have the same shape. Triangular, pointed nose, big engines in the back. The stuff in the movies has much more variety.

Many of Colin's designs are, shall we say, traditional sci-fi. They look more like futuristic rocket ships. Particularly his Millennium Falcon, and "Sith" fighters. The later being inspired by NASA concept. Though some of his ideas a very different. Like his TIE, though it does evoke real space craft with the solar panels. And what become known as the T-16.

That thing feels so "Star Wars." You can see Star Destroyers, X-wings, Snowspeeders Imperial Shuttles. It's angular, it has wide wings. Big guns. Nice greenling. It really has that final aesthetic that the we remember the OT for.

 

[ghostryder]

Modern Star Wars Projects Have a Flashback Problem

Flashbacks are a novel innovation in the Star Wars franchise, and they demonstrate a narrative weakness.

collider.com

 

[Wolfsburg]

Tech flourishes during times of war but elegance & styling does not. Years of warfare would have given the rebel ships better engines & targeting computers. It wouldn't have made them look pretty.

I also think we are looking at it from 20th-century eyes if we expect major changes in the tech during a few years/decades. The SW universe is more likely to be too evolved for that. The tech would probably be much more stabilized.

As for Cantwell's stuff, IMO it's interesting but I don't crave more of it in SW. The existing OT stuff looked more developed. And Cantwell's ships all seem to have the same shape. Triangular, pointed nose, big engines in the back. The stuff in the movies has much more variety.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not at all suggesting the OT ships should be pretty? Quite the opposite. I would've preferred the PT looked a bit more primitive while still clearly being in the same universe as the later OT, that was only 30 years later. The OT stuff in no way looked more developed than most anything in the PT. The PT had all sorts of fancy holographic displays, advanced weaponry, advanced droids, etc that were far beyond anything ever seen in the OT. Without context, the Battle of Coruscant could've easily passed for being well after RoTJ. I also never said that Cantwell should've been the sole source of PT material but I would've liked to have seen early concepts from McQuarrie and Johnston used as well, as opposed to most of what we actually got.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I still think the reasoning for the Prequel look vs. the OT look stands up. By the time of the OT the ships were probably going for more utilitarian features and that could explain why the cockpit displays looked less fancy. You also have to be careful making in-universe explanations for the time period the OT movies were made and the tech/budget limitations they were under. I think if you had made the Prequel stuff as 70s looking as the OT, a lot of people would have been turned off. The hardcore fans would like it, but the general audience might think it looks cheap compared to other movies of the time.

Have we seen an in cockpit view of a TIE fighter cockpit in anything recent (Rogue One? - it's been a while)? I'm curious if they would go with the type of displays in the TIE Fighter games because they look a little more advanced than a X-Wing. So they could be compared to modern Western fighter jets, which are very modern, and Russian jets which are clunky looking and more utilitarian.