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That's what I mean. The Greedo scene was always there but they shifted the Jabba exposition into it when they cut the Jabba scene.
Then GL reinstated the Jabba scene in 1997 but he didn't trim the Greedo scene back down.
My solution:
If GL was intent on showing Jabba in 1977 then he could have done it with a hologram or telescreen message deal. (Think: "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi". Or maybe Pizza the Hutt in Spaceballs. Or Vader talking to the Emperor's hologram in ESB.)
That way the image can be low-resolution and the character doesn't have to interact in a live scene. They could have built a puppet like the ROTJ Jabba but scaled it down to 1/4th-size. How much cheaper & easier would that have been compared to the ROTJ build? Film Jabba as a 4-foot-long slug on a table.
This way Jabba would have been affordable for the ANH shoot and it also would have avoided diminishing his boss power (he doesn't make a live appearance just to nag Han about the money).
Then GL reinstated the Jabba scene in 1997 but he didn't trim the Greedo scene back down.
My solution:
If GL was intent on showing Jabba in 1977 then he could have done it with a hologram or telescreen message deal. (Think: "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi". Or maybe Pizza the Hutt in Spaceballs. Or Vader talking to the Emperor's hologram in ESB.)
That way the image can be low-resolution and the character doesn't have to interact in a live scene. They could have built a puppet like the ROTJ Jabba but scaled it down to 1/4th-size. How much cheaper & easier would that have been compared to the ROTJ build? Film Jabba as a 4-foot-long slug on a table.
This way Jabba would have been affordable for the ANH shoot and it also would have avoided diminishing his boss power (he doesn't make a live appearance just to nag Han about the money).
Phil Tippett is that you ?
Great Idea though and has that Old school Flash Gordon vibe George was injecting into SW DNA and something they later used in TPM.
Darth Lars
Master Member
Even if the Jabba scene could be improved to retain Jabba's dignity, size and mystery, I would still keep scene out because it spoils the reveal of the Millennium Falcon.
It was more powerful when we got to see the the first time the same time as Luke Skywalker, together with a musical cue and then Luke exclaiming "What a piece of junk".
It was more powerful when we got to see the the first time the same time as Luke Skywalker, together with a musical cue and then Luke exclaiming "What a piece of junk".
Phil Tippett? Nah, I can only aspire to that kind of OG greatness . . .
A digital message from Jabba doesn't have to be shown at/inside the Falcon. Han could have watched it in his booth in the Cantina or something.
Either way the 1977 ANH version is probably the best approach. I'm just spitballing other ideas.
George Lucas was probably bent on showing slug-Jabba in ANH because his whole 'vision' for the ME cantina scene had been way beyond his resources in general. Slug-Jabba would have been one more excuse for an exotic creature in the first movie.
That, and the rules of basic storytelling - it's better to show the threats to your characters. A bizarre scary creature of a gangster is more explicit than a minor henchman. Han wasted Greedo in a bar booth with one hand.
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Good point...it worked for 18 years without it.
I still remember the reveal and thinking Wow thats Amazing!...
Then Luke says What a piece of Junk lol..
HeartBlade
Sr Member
True, the falcon is a pretty cool looking ship and its not like the rebel ships look any better. Hell, the Empire's tie fighters look worse than the rebel ships with the only impressive ones really being the star destroyers.
Maybe the Empire should have had more sleek and bulky ships to contrast with the Rebel's scrappy image and the falcon looking even more hunky in contrast. I guess just looking at a flying saucer, you would think it does look like junk compared to the others which look like actual ships though.
Joek3rr
Master Member
So continuing my journey of trying comparing the most recent home video releases of the Star Wars films....
I remembered that in 2015 I bought the digital collection of the 6 films. And I downloaded them to an external hard drive. I realized this is the same versions of the films as the 2011 Blu-rays. And so with that realization, I sat down and compared the two versions.
The 4k definitely has cleaner, clearer image. But there are times I noticed the DNR kinda smudging out detail. Particularly on faces.
One of the biggest changes comes in the color. Ever since the Special Editions in 97. The OT has had been brightened and the colors have been made deeper and richer. Sometimes a little too rich when it comes to skin tone. But the sky is actually blue. The 4k has less color overall. Everything is much more pale. Which is more accurate to the original look of the film when it first came out. But it's kinda hard to go back. Particularly when Cloud City has look really vibrant in the past, with a deep blue skies and deep red torture room corridors.
So if your looking to get one of the newer releases of the movies. You'll be faced with a choice. Better clarity but poorer(in my opinion), but more true to the originals, colors. Slightly less clarity, but better, more vibrant colors.
I remembered that in 2015 I bought the digital collection of the 6 films. And I downloaded them to an external hard drive. I realized this is the same versions of the films as the 2011 Blu-rays. And so with that realization, I sat down and compared the two versions.
The 4k definitely has cleaner, clearer image. But there are times I noticed the DNR kinda smudging out detail. Particularly on faces.
One of the biggest changes comes in the color. Ever since the Special Editions in 97. The OT has had been brightened and the colors have been made deeper and richer. Sometimes a little too rich when it comes to skin tone. But the sky is actually blue. The 4k has less color overall. Everything is much more pale. Which is more accurate to the original look of the film when it first came out. But it's kinda hard to go back. Particularly when Cloud City has look really vibrant in the past, with a deep blue skies and deep red torture room corridors.
So if your looking to get one of the newer releases of the movies. You'll be faced with a choice. Better clarity but poorer(in my opinion), but more true to the originals, colors. Slightly less clarity, but better, more vibrant colors.
I love Tie Fighters and their Awesome sounds screeching through space.
One of.. if not the best scene in ANH is when they attack The Falcon,I watched that scene over and over when it came out on video its such a well crafted put together scene.
Darth Lars
Master Member
Wait a minute. I missed your post. So you meant that Han's line "Even I get boarded sometimes. Do you think I had a choice" in the scene with Greedo had been lifted from the (cut) Jabba scene?
When rewatching the scene, I notice that the camera is on Greedo and then on Han's blaster, but not on Han's face during that uttering of the line. And it feels seamless. Marcia sure deserved her Oscar...
And to use this as a springboard down a rabbit trail...
I had the fortune to see the original Star Wars trilogy films during their initial theatrical runs in the 1970s/1980s. And the thing I realize is... NONE of us saw them the exact same way back then. Despite the stereo tracks and monaural versions, did you see a 35mm print, or 16mm copy? How clean was the print? Was the theatrical projector aligned properly, and how many hours were on the bulb? Had the film been run for a few months with more accumulated dirt, scratches, hot spots, and fading, or was it a fresh print? How many reels were in the print, and were the negative copies each processed (probably by Kodak) sequentially in the same wash, to ensure consistency in the way they developed?
The way that I "remember" how Star Wars looked in 1977 at my local south Florida theater was most likely NOT the way it "looked" in downtown Miami or Fort Lauderdale. To me, the color palette was muted, with lots of 1970s earth tones. I remember at the finale/medal ceremony, a clean C3PO golden and bright, and R2D2 had a clean, crisp white bright body, but still with a satin finish dome. While as a child I always thought ANH Vader was just dark black in color, we all know now that he wasn't "glossy" at all, the helmet and armor were banged to hell from the production process, the face plate was gunmetal and black, the helmet dome was NOT glossy in ANH, etc.
As Yoda might say: "Consistent on film, the Original Trilogy was not."
So... trying to preserve the original look of the films before the digital era is elaborate archeology, but ultimately a "best guess" based on remaining film artifacts and digital conversions. And I am aware of the many SW film preservation/un-edits that have occurred over the years. For my money, Mike Verta probably has the "best" original restoration based on his unique and tedious methods, but we will never get to see it.
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Movies were just quicker & dirtier 40 years ago.
For the 1990s ANH special edition, they purposely degraded the image quality of the new CGI work by 20% to make it mesh with the rest of the (restored) 1970s footage.
It's a standard problem with highly-valued vintage things. We want them restored better than they ever originally were.
For the 1990s ANH special edition, they purposely degraded the image quality of the new CGI work by 20% to make it mesh with the rest of the (restored) 1970s footage.
It's a standard problem with highly-valued vintage things. We want them restored better than they ever originally were.
And in other news...
Anyone else ever notice that in ROTJ, the "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber" pick-up insert shot (filmed some time later after Prowse and Hamill completed their scene) shows Vader wearing his belt boxes BACKWARDS? In other words, the costumer threaded the left belt box on the right. and vice versa, so the inner green lights and 6 control knobs are now facing the opposite direction. And it's not a film flip/mirror image issue.
Anyone else ever notice that in ROTJ, the "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber" pick-up insert shot (filmed some time later after Prowse and Hamill completed their scene) shows Vader wearing his belt boxes BACKWARDS? In other words, the costumer threaded the left belt box on the right. and vice versa, so the inner green lights and 6 control knobs are now facing the opposite direction. And it's not a film flip/mirror image issue.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Thanks a lot. I can't unsee that!
ScourgiousJinx
Master Member
I didn't realize Tracey Eddon was a rebel trooper.
ghostryder
Legendary Member
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