Yeah, there are ways to pull off the small interconnected universe thing, like Tales from Jabba's Palace. When you cram too many connections into the filmic stories it can cause the whole thing to lose its grandeur.

I liked those Tales of books when they first came out. The Tales from the New Republic one is still decent because they are completely stand alone stories. I tried rereading Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina about a year ago and most of those stories end up with "And then I was sitting there when this crazy old guy whips out a lightsaber..." or "I was having a drink when in walks Han Solo and Chewbacca. I wonder what they're up to?" It gets old by the second story.
 
I think because canon wise now yoda wanted Leia trained first, luke was the back up plan
Oh right, I forgot about that anthology. I have mixed feelings about that particular revelation. I always liked the idea of Jedi Leia though.

Leia wasn't even a Skywalker during the most critical formative period of the franchise (about 1976-1981). That is such a pure example of retconning against the original intent.
 
So many of George's positions have varied over the years. But IMO that is an argument put more weight on the stuff that he didn't vary.

We still regard George's input on SW to be more legit than anyone else's by a country mile.
 
Does canon even really matter at this point? It used to be whatever George said back in the day, but even his word means very little when he can't make up his mind. Things haven't changed in that regard since the acquisition.

View attachment 1489562
In 2013 when they erased canon and started fresh I bought everything.. every book every comic

then with ep8 I refused to give Disney any more money and just followed canon updates on Star Wars explained YouTube channel

but now, the shows and movies are contradicting the canon books?

what the hell ever happened to that story board team, Pablo and friends who policed the canon time line?

me end thought I don’t purchase anymore books, it’s kind of a slap in the face to the new canon diehards who kept going, collecting all new canon after I gave up..

Only a matter of time before they start contradicting the cartoon series lol wait… I think they might have already?
 
In 2013 when they erased canon and started fresh I bought everything.. every book every comic

then with ep8 I refused to give Disney any more money and just followed canon updates on Star Wars explained YouTube channel

but now, the shows and movies are contradicting the canon books?

what the hell ever happened to that story board team, Pablo and friends who policed the canon time line?

me end thought I don’t purchase anymore books, it’s kind of a slap in the face to the new canon diehards who kept going, collecting all new canon after I gave up..

Only a matter of time before they start contradicting the cartoon series lol wait… I think they might have already?
Welcome to the Star Wars multiverse! ;)
 
While the idea of an overarching canon sounds good in theory, it's just not feasible to strong arm everything into one cohesive time line.

There's 30 years of material prior to 2012, much of it out of sync with itself and two trilogies that conflict with one another, both of which were made by the creator himself so to suddenly declare that everything under the new banner as the final word on the matter is really laughable.

My preference would have been to have all new material support those original three films because they established everything so it would make logical sense to use them as the foundation. But you know, new ideas are always better than tried and true, right? Right??

With the erasure of the EU Disney ostensibly devalued their ideas, even if those stories weren't officially recognized by George, he also allowed them to peaceably coexist with his canon films because they complimented his work as well as generated a lot of money. He rarely ever mentioned them because they were filling a niche in the market of his business, so why address it at all other than happily collect his checks from the work?

The irony is that Lucasfilm under Disney reset the canon in their image, only to draw from the EU material for the major plot points of the ST. So it begs the question as to why they would dismiss the EU as "Legends" only to end up drawing heavily from them as if their ideas where wholly out of thin air?

Talk about a corporate move if their ever was one. You can't honestly expect fans to take that kind of power play seriously. If the ST was universally loved I'm sure most would over look it. There would have been fan grumbling but nothing to the extent that it became vexing.

The "Legends" EU was good enough to mine from to build a whole new film trilogy around, even if those ideas were executed poorly on screen, it doesn't negate the fact that there are very obvious similarities. Whether the ideas were pulled intentionally is another matter, but it doesn't change the fact that they clearly couldn't do better than the countless authors that came before them.

And I don't want to hear any snide comments about anyone's childhood being ruined. I really wish that phrase would die a horrible death. It's never been true by any metric. Creative decisions cannot and never have ruined anyone's childhood. If they could then it says more about the person making the claim than it does the stories being told. Conversely, I also hate that phrase being used as a cudgel to berate fans as being impotent whiners when they point out an inconsistency or poor decision by the companies that make these products. In both instances it's a blanket excuse to avoid any real discourse.
 
Funny enough, Leia ended up running black ops missions for the Rebellion, while Luke piddled around a dirt farm with his head in the clouds.

But just remember: Luke isn't a Mary Sue, ok? Long as we're crystal clear on that! ;)

I liked those Tales of books when they first came out. The Tales from the New Republic one is still decent because they are completely stand alone stories. I tried rereading Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina about a year ago and most of those stories end up with "And then I was sitting there when this crazy old guy whips out a lightsaber..." or "I was having a drink when in walks Han Solo and Chewbacca. I wonder what they're up to?" It gets old by the second story.

Ah yes, the fishbowl universe. One of my least favorite aspects of the late 90s/early 00s Star Wars. There was this desire to provide everyone with a backstory, frequently connecting them intimately to the events of the galactic civil war. Nobody was ever just "I dunno. Some spacer." They were the guy who transported the Bothan spies who stole the Death Star II plans, or the dude who was told to totally disable the hyperdrive on the Falcon in Cloud City but secretly left a backdoor to undo all the damage that he knew a clever droid could find or whatever.

I hated that. HATED it. It's lazy writing and it kills your worldbuilding by making everything seem tiny.

The one thing I'd say I appreciate most about the Disney era has been the effort to try to expand the scope of the Star Wars universe. Yes, they do a lot of repeated beats, and they riff on existing material, but they also do expand things into new territory. I just want them to do more of that. Much more.

I think we can all agree that the concept of original intent is worth very, very little in regards to any iteration of Star Wars.

So many of George's positions have varied over the years. But IMO that is an argument put more weight on the stuff that he didn't vary.

We still regard George's input on SW to be more legit than anyone else's by a country mile.

As I've said, I don't regard George as the final word on Star Wars canon. I wouldn't even say I regard George as the final word on George with respect to Star Wars anymore. But I think a lot of that comes from how many drafts of the story there were, and how the story has evolved in his mind over time.

I think it's easy to forget that people don't always have a perfectly clear recollection of their own timeline and history. I might say "Oh, my attitude back in 2001 was XYZ," but you could dig up records to prove that I didn't think XYZ until 2003. But what the hell do I know? I can barely remember last week anymore. I would believe that George has a rough sense of what he wanted and thought back in the day, but his recollection of that gets influenced by what he thinks and wants today -- just like everyone else. He's not an omniscient narrator. That's why you'd want to look at documentary evidence to indicate what he thought and when.

It's also why he says contradictory stuff, I think. "I always intended blah blah blah." Did you though? ALWAYS? And that never changed? Like, he could say "I always intended for Leia to be Luke's sister," but it might be more nuanced than that. Maybe he always intended for Luke to have a sister, but for that sister to not be the princess character that Luke rescues. Like, Darth Vader wasn't always Luke's father. He wasn't even always a Sith. So did he "always intend" for "Darth Vader" to be reminiscent of "Dark Father?" Or is that something that he came up with in the 4th draft or whatever?

At the end of the day, it may be interesting to look at the development of the OT, but beyond that...who cares? It doesn't matter.
 
As someone who has spent a lot of time learning about writing and the creative process, unless you keep lots of clearly delineated notes about what you're thinking and when, that **** all blends together at a certain point.

I could tell you the rough idea of what the thing I'm writing started as, but these things grow and evolve as you work on them and that's just the process. ******, there are things you think are going to be part of the story that change faster than you can write them down.
 
At the end of the day, it may be interesting to look at the development of the OT, but beyond that...who cares? It doesn't matter.


I don't really care how bits of continuity get tweaked around years/decades after fact by different people. (Even George himself qualifies as a different person eventually. People change. Greedo starts shooting first.)

IMO the original creative intents in the OT logically deserve the highest place in the pecking order. That stuff is what put 'Star Wars' on the map. Almost 1/2 century later that stuff is still the strongest work in the franchise.

There are exceptions to this "rule", but not many.
 
See, I disagree to an extent. I don't think George's recollections or even his draft scripts really matter for purposes of future storytelling. They can act as points of inspiration, and you can refer back to them to get a sense of "What's this moment here actually mean?" but unless they actually made it to the screen, the elaborate backstory created by....whomever...doesn't really matter, especially if it's just "Hey George, what was your creative process?"

Like, if you have a novel that is supposed to take place between X and Y years, and your subsequent story takes place Z years later, ok, fine, you probably want to at least try not to directly contradict the novel. So if the novel shows [character] dying, and your story requires them to be alive, you need to either change the character, or figure out why they didn't really die and work that into your story....if you actually care (you may not, because your attitude may be "Who really reads the novels? I'm not letting that slow me down.").

By contrast, if you're telling a story and it violates some thing that George said once in an interview from 1998 about how he thought the Force worked...well...who gives a s*** what he said? I mean, sure, include it if you want, but you're definitely not beholden to George's periodic musings. They bear zero weight on the stories you're trying to tell. That's what I'm getting about "they don't matter."

I look at it this way. George's attitudes and musings and stuff are interesting in an academic sense. Like, "How'd we get here?" and "What was your process?" and stuff like that. But George's attitudes aren't holy writ, and just because George thought X doesn't mean that (1) X is a good idea, or (2) X should have any bearing on the current story.
 
The one thing I'd say I appreciate most about the Disney era has been the effort to try to expand the scope of the Star Wars universe. Yes, they do a lot of repeated beats, and they riff on existing material, but they also do expand things into new territory. I just want them to do more of that. Much more.

I've seen the new DSW in the opposite light, everything seems to be dragging out the same story, I haven't seen any content that isn't connected to the OT or the PT in some significant way.
The Mandolorian gave me some hope (a new hope? ;) ) that we were going to get something fresh and new. Sure, the guy looked like Boba but it seemed well established this show wasn't about Boba.... until it was. That's not Yoda, it just looks like him! Then I heard they were trotting out digital Luke and here comes Ahsoka... Now they're making Kenobi, it just seems like creative bankruptcy over there.

Ironically they most enjoyable DSW thing I've seen is Solo and it's a craptastic nostalgia fest that I'll likely never watch again. KOTOR, that would have been the place to go with feature films.
 
The Mandolorian gave me some hope (a new hope? ;) ) that we were going to get something fresh and new. Sure, the guy looked like Boba but it seemed well established this show wasn't about Boba.... until it was. That's not Yoda, it just looks like him! Then I heard they were trotting out digital Luke and here comes Ahsoka... Now they're making Kenobi, it just seems like creative bankruptcy over there.
At the same time, these are all things that the majority of the fandom wanted. They wanted to know what Boba was up to post-RotJ. The fandom wanted the Ahsoka/Sabine duo show where they're searching for Thrawn and Ezra. They wanted Ewan McGregor back as Obi-Wan. The fandom also wanted to see TCW finished out, and got that.

The fandom vocally shows support for these things, but then complains when they get them.
 
I've seen the new DSW in the opposite light, everything seems to be dragging out the same story, I haven't seen any content that isn't connected to the OT or the PT in some significant way.
The Mandolorian gave me some hope (a new hope? ;) ) that we were going to get something fresh and new. Sure, the guy looked like Boba but it seemed well established this show wasn't about Boba.... until it was. That's not Yoda, it just looks like him! Then I heard they were trotting out digital Luke and here comes Ahsoka... Now they're making Kenobi, it just seems like creative bankruptcy over there.

Ironically they most enjoyable DSW thing I've seen is Solo and it's a craptastic nostalgia fest that I'll likely never watch again. KOTOR, that would have been the place to go with feature films.

At the same time, these are all things that the majority of the fandom wanted. They wanted to know what Boba was up to post-RotJ. The fandom wanted the Ahsoka/Sabine duo show where they're searching for Thrawn and Ezra. They wanted Ewan McGregor back as Obi-Wan. The fandom also wanted to see TCW finished out, and got that.

The fandom vocally shows support for these things, but then complains when they get them.
I see that stuff as being part of the expansion. Yes, it focuses on stuff that's connected to the OT, but it also branches off in directions the OT never explored, locations the OT never went, and with characters that aren't the OT. It offers a path towards something really new that still feels connected enough to the old stuff that it still feels like Star Wars.

That said, this is the problem with long-running franchises and what fans say they want. "Make it the same, but make it different and new. But not too different and new. But also not so similar that it feels too much the same." This is a big part of why I liked TLJ as much as I did. It threw open the door to a very, very different approach to Star Wars, while still offering things that would make it recognizably Star Wars.

I have less of a problem focusing on the events of the Galactic Civil War from the OT, and more an issue constantly dealing with the same specific events and people. I don't mind there being bridge characters or bridge stories, but I want things to expand, to explore other aspects of the galaxy, other parts of life in that universe.

With TLJ, I was hoping we'd get different views on the Force that weren't just Jedi vs. Sith. I was hoping we'd see a break from the "And then the nuRebels beat the nuEmpire" model established with ROTJ. For that matter, I'd hoped for a break from trilogies. Disney/LFL didn't take that option, but it was -- and remains -- there to take in the future.

Solo also opened the door to stories all about the Star Wars underworld, and dealing with a whole range of new characters. I would love to watch a series of films about Alden Ehrenreich's Han Solo and his adventures, or better still, other characters in that same world. That stuff is what I really enjoyed about The Mandalorian. Din Djarin isn't just Boba Fett in a different suit. Grogu isn't just mini-Yoda. There's more going on there. It's familiar, but it explores a lot of different stuff. That's what I want more of.
 
At the same time, these are all things that the majority of the fandom wanted. They wanted to know what Boba was up to post-RotJ. The fandom wanted the Ahsoka/Sabine duo show where they're searching for Thrawn and Ezra. They wanted Ewan McGregor back as Obi-Wan. The fandom also wanted to see TCW finished out, and got that.

The fandom vocally shows support for these things, but then complains when they get them.

I haven't seen any fan complaints about any of the specific things you just listed. If anything I think the fans have been largely happy with them. Personally I wasn't interested in any of them, but from what I've seen Lucasfilm did deliver on those requests.

It would be nice to see this franchise go outside the bounds of what we already know and Mando Season 1 was the first true attempt to do just that and I think it mostly succeeded. Even if I was mostly indifferent I could applaud the effort. If they can keep that balance of the familiar world but new characters and plots then they have a chance at keeping it alive. I have my doubts that they'll do it and think that first season was a fluke in terms of being able to maintain a fresh outlook. Season 2 proved that they just can't help themselves.
 
I don't think there was any logical end for the Grogu / Mando plot line that didn't end with Grogu going to train with someone who could help keep him safe. They definitely weren't going to go dark and kill off the little muppet, and keeping Mando tied to him forever could be redundant after the character growth Mando goes through in S2. It's one of those endings where of course they did it, it felt inevitable on some level, but was still surprising to a lot of folks.

The period between Mando S2 and where Luke is in TFA is pretty expansive and not well understood, so there are lots of things that could potentially happen as far as Grogu is concerned. The way I look at it Mando S2 really opens things up for a third season, they could go anywhere from here. Given his popularity I don't even think I would write off future Grogu appearances.

I think the use of (or links to) established canon work best when they are a springboard for new stories rather than an anchor, but the line is tricky to walk when you're trying to write a story that you want oldheads and newbies to love.
 
At the same time, these are all things that the majority of the fandom wanted. They wanted to know what Boba was up to post-RotJ. The fandom wanted the Ahsoka/Sabine duo show where they're searching for Thrawn and Ezra. They wanted Ewan McGregor back as Obi-Wan. The fandom also wanted to see TCW finished out, and got that.

The fandom vocally shows support for these things, but then complains when they get them.
I can't speak for the fandom or even the majority of them but I literally never wanted any of the things you mentioned. I'm sure many fans did/do want those things but t doubt they are the same people decrying them now.

Did anyone wonder what Boba was doing post RoTJ? I thought it was left pretty clear that he was being digested in the Sarlacc.
 

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