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Solo4114

Master Member
I swear I've been here before....

So what would you guys all like to see in a post TROS world?

I personally think a large (100+ year) time jump and then broad strokes adaptation of the NJO era would be interesting.

That depends. I really liked the cast in the sequels and think that they deserved a better story overall, with better character development across the board. I'd love to see them return for a subsequent series (NOT TRILOGY) of films that showcases what comes after the defeat of the First Order. If that's not possible, then what I'd like to see has more to do with changing things up within Star Wars.

If you're going to set the films in the future of the Star Wars galaxy, then they need to do a few things:

- Move away from the traditional Imperial/Rebels or Jedi/Sith conflict. You can have good Jedi and dark Jedi, but the "good guys are plucky underdogs against a massive power" thing isn't really effective anymore, and the steps you have to take to get there within the story end up making the whole thing unbelievable.

- I'd like to see a lot more grey introduced into the Jedi. Different views of the Force, rather than just "Light Side/Dark Side." The Force can be more than that, with that being one interpretation of it. And you can still have good and evil, but make it more nuanced.

- No more stormtroopers or stormtrooper knockoffs. Dudes in white armor who can't shoot straight? Seen it. Let's move on. If you're gonna set your stories in the immediate aftermath of the OT or the PT, ok, fine. Post-ST? No thanks. We're done with that. Maybe show some remnants of the First Order or whatever, but for the most part, let's just...move on.

- I think a lot of the traditional iconography leaves the stories too hidebound, and it's too easy to just lean on "DOESN'T THIS LOOK FAMILIAR AND SCRATCH YOUR NOSTALGIA ITCH?!?!?!" rather than tell a good story. So, while seeing the odd X-wing and such about, I'd prefer to see new designs. It's entirely possible to do. We've seen it already on plenty of other shows and within the films themselves.

- No. More. Trilogies. They're tradition? F*** tradition. Tradition has resulted in not one, not two, but THREE three-part stories where the end part felt incredibly rushed, and the story suffered for it. Marvel took 23 films over 11 years to build Phases 1-3, culminating in Avengers: Endgame. Not every film was a slam-dunk, but they all built towards something, and as a result, when Endgame finally hit, the emotional beats in it hit because we'd already seen the build-up over multiple other films. Bottom line: they took their time to craft a spectacular result. They didn't rush just to adhere to some "traditional" trilogy format. After TLJ, you could've done another 3-5 films to more effectively tell the tale, but no, JJ wanted to wrap it all up with a bow in one film. That was a mistake, and the whole thing suffered as a result.

- I'd be game for a civil war within the Jedi. I'd be game for the breakdown of the Republic as a result of the First Order conflict, and watching how they rebuild or whether they rebuild at all. Instead of a single galactic republic, maybe they splinter into different, smaller factions which serve as superpowers stuck in an uneasy alliance and/or true between them. There's plenty of things you could do with it.

- I'd like to see more of the underworld. I really enjoyed Solo. I thought it was a ton of fun and it showcased a side of the Star Wars universe that's been largely ignored until that point. I'd like to see more of it. Doesn't have to be with the Solo cast (although I liked them, too), but let's see more of the seedy side of the Star Wars universe. WE've gotten a bunch of that with The Mandolorian, and that's awesome, but I'd like to see what else can be done.
 

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Joek3rr

Sr Member
- No more stormtroopers or stormtrooper knockoffs. Dudes in white armor who can't shoot straight? Seen it. Let's move on. If you're gonna set your stories in the immediate aftermath of the OT or the PT, ok, fine. Post-ST? No thanks. We're done with that. Maybe show some remnants of the First Order or whatever, but for the most part, let's just...move on.

This^

It seems like one faction has to wear clone trooper/stormtrooper-esque armor. I remember when the cinematics for SWTOR came out, and I'm thinking, "they look like clone troopers....what the heck?"
main-qimg-45ba75968910024447ee20f383277e0c.jpg

Of course KOTOR wasn't exactly any better.
dd2c4021d9fbb2e2214-swkotor-2017-01-07-23-03-40-90.jpg

swkotor%202015-12-10%2010-12-06-77.jpg

I guess that helmet is "kettle helm/war hat" of the Star Wars universe? In use for thousands of years?
 

ScourgiousJinx

Well-Known Member
To be fair to Lucas, he had a lot to cover in episode 2. The beginning of the war, setting up the creation of the army that eventually becomes stormtroopers, and covering Anakin and Padme's love story. Maybe it would have made more sense if Lucas expanded the PT into 5 films, adding one between 2 and 3 which covered the actual clone wars (and gave some set up for Grevious who comes out of nowhere for movie goers), and splitting 3 into clone wars end and rise of able bodied Vader and fall of jedi order and Vader into artificial body Vader.

I think it is also implied that if able bodied Vader gained some experience, he would have destroyed even Yoda since Yoda is close to Sidious and Vader is expected to be far stronger than Sidious. If Marvel's what if series does well, they could do a what if Vader didnt lose to Obi Wan and make a series from there.

Im not sure how I feel about Jango assassinating jedi since jedi do have the force to alert them of danger. The reason why Order 66 worked was because the jedi were in the midst of a war and were overwhelmed when the order was in effect. Jango could probably assassinate some regular jedi or apprentices though like he did during the Geonosis arena.

Not sure about a "what if" series. Might better to just leave well enough alone especially when it comes to the OT/PT. It wouldn't change things canonically but still. The less the George Lucas era SW is messed with the better. Making completely new content forces creativity and originality which is what SW really needs right now.

Jango did give Obi-Wan a good fight and he offed Coleman Trebor, a Jedi master, with relative ease at the beginning of the area battle. I could see him picking off Jedi one at a time and being relatively successful at it. Becoming an exceptional bounty hunter/assassin would probably entail significant training on how to be undetected and unexpected in killing force users. I'd imagine Mandalorians were adept at assassinating Jedi as they have a history of war/conflict with them.
 
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Joek3rr

Sr Member
For those who like the ST. I found this intriguing quote. That last sentence....

"I remember the initial conversations about having things 'skinned', peeling away layers to evolve into other people, and the person Kylo's pretending to be on the outside is not who he is. He's a vulnerable kid who doesn't know where to put his energy, but when he puts his mask on, suddenly, he's playing a role. JJ had that idea initially and I think Rian took it to the next level. You have, also, the hidden identity of this princess who's hiding who she really is so she can survive and Kylo Ren and her hiding behind these artifices." - Adam Driver 2017
 

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Solo4114

Master Member
The "no Stormtrooper" angle is exactly why I want to see something equivalent to the Vong in the future of this universe. I know the overall reception to them is mixed, but they offer a refreshing enemy when we've had endless trooper variants so far.
Hard pass on the Vong or other "bio" species. "Weird aliens from beyond" isn't what I'm interested in, personally.

The real key is not to think about "Who's the threat" in terms of their look. That's the whole reason why "more stormtroopers" is a problem: it's all based around the superficial elements of Star Wars. "We have to have guys in white-ish armor with the same kind of helmet or it's not Star Wars!" That's the problem in a nutshell. You see the same issue with JJ's approach to Trek. "It's not Trek if there aren't primary color uniforms!" Meanwhile, you lose the core of what Trek was.

I'd think that a better approach would be to figure out what kind of story you want to tell and why you want to tell it, and then go about the production design based on that story, and evolving from the events of your films and whatever is supposed to have come before them. You're not creating from scratch, but you're also not beholden to the past.

So, by way of example:

- A new film takes place 3,000 years after ROTS. A (new) New Republic never formed in the wake of the First Order's rise. Although brief, the First Order's impact was to fracture the galaxy into multiple different factions. Groups of planets wound up aligning themselves together and creating various political organizations. In total, there are five factions in this new era. Come up with names that give a rough sense for what they each stand for, but one could be a feudal imperial system, another is a democratic republic, another is some corporate-controlled space, another is a military league, etc.

- The Jedi survive as advisors, generals, councilors, and healers, serving all equally, but aligned with none in particular. (This lets you bring in Jedi in some form.)

- Some new group decides to set two factions against each other, to get everyone fighting, so that the whole thing will burn to the ground and they can rule when it's time to rebuild.

If the new group held to ideals that were old Imperial ideals, maybe the design for their warriors might incorporate elements of stormtrooper armor, and it would make sense for the story. But you'd also need it to make sense for the story that the new group would (1) idealize the Empire, (2) be powerful enough to pull this off, and (3) actually have some reason as to why they thought guys who couldn't hit the broad side of a Star Destroyer were such badasses (maybe the myths mix up Mandalorians with stormtroopers, because of the Fett connection).

Stuff like this would offer an opportunity for more nuance, more complexity in the stories, but still retain core elements of "good vs. evil" and the use of the Force.

I'd prefer to see more nuanced takes on the "good vs. evil" thing, and have it be less about "YOU USED A DARK SIDE POWER" and more about the motivations of the user. Allow for more "Grey Jedi" rather than just the Light/Dark dichotomy. The Clone Wars series flirted with this stuff a bit, but ultimately left it alone because we're stuck with reiterating the past instead of building upon it and using it as a platform from which to innovate.
 

Psab keel

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
While you know I've always been in agreement with you about venturing elsewhere Solo4114 I've finally accept the fact that the people in charge at Lucasfilm are completely incapable of making anything outside the narrow parameters that have defined this franchise for nearly 50 years. They had every financial resource available to them and had they taken their time, with better planning and leadership they could have done far better, but here we are. The Mandalorian almost had me fooled up until Season 2 and with a few exceptions it all fell apart for me. I'm just relieved that I never had to pay for Disney+. Though for the content I didn't like in that show at least it just disappointed me rather than the downright loathing I felt trying to sit through 7 and 8.

I think your take would be interesting and I would watch something like that because it shows initiative and a genuine attempt to break the mold but nothing like it will never happen. It's not just Lucasfilm either. It's the way the Hollywood system and market for films has shifted so drastically over the last ten years that's left most of the artistry out of big budget movies. That's not to discount the talent that goes into a production, but the writing is largely nothing more than reheating freezer burned pizza. Not even DiGiorno pizza. Not even Elio's. Stop and Shop's version of Elio's pizza.

Part of the reason the movie experience is dying is because original streaming content is willing to take genuine risks on new types of stories, some of which isn't as easily defined into a specific genre. I've been lamenting this for the last 5 years or more, but the pandemic has only further proved my point. How spoiled are we? We've got more access, to more entertainment than one could possibly consume in a lifetime and yet so much of it isn't even worth bothering with!
 

Solo4114

Master Member
While you know I've always been in agreement with you about venturing elsewhere Solo4114 I've finally accept the fact that the people in charge at Lucasfilm are completely incapable of making anything outside the narrow parameters that have defined this franchise for nearly 50 years. They had every financial resource available to them and had they taken their time, with better planning and leadership they could have done far better, but here we are. The Mandalorian almost had me fooled up until Season 2 and with a few exceptions it all fell apart for me. I'm just relieved that I never had to pay for Disney+. Though for the content I didn't like in that show at least it just disappointed me rather than the downright loathing I felt trying to sit through 7 and 8.

I think your take would be interesting and I would watch something like that because it shows initiative and a genuine attempt to break the mold but nothing like it will never happen. It's not just Lucasfilm either. It's the way the Hollywood system and market for films has shifted so drastically over the last ten years that's left most of the artistry out of big budget movies. That's not to discount the talent that goes into a production, but the writing is largely nothing more than reheating freezer burned pizza. Not even DiGiorno pizza. Not even Elio's. Stop and Shop's version of Elio's pizza.

Part of the reason the movie experience is dying is because original streaming content is willing to take genuine risks on new types of stories, some of which isn't as easily defined into a specific genre. I've been lamenting this for the last 5 years or more, but the pandemic has only further proved my point. How spoiled are we? We've got more access, to more entertainment than one could possibly consume in a lifetime and yet so much of it isn't even worth bothering with!

Yeah, I really just dashed off my ideas and lifted them heavily from the background material for Battletech, actually. My point, though, is that you can do new things, have it still be "Star Wars" and not focus on the window-dressing. Star Wars isn't the window dressing, or at least it's more than just that.

LFL, at least in their recent films, played it pretty conservatively. The two non-trilogy films (Rogue One and Solo) were really good, but were themselves rooted in the same well-trod universe with which we're already familiar. Now, I'd love to see more of that, and I am actually really enjoying the bulk of The Mandolorian, looking forward to the new Fett series, etc., but...if we're gonna go past all that, then it's time to start thinking big, and thinking beyond what everyone reflexively goes to when they say "Star Wars is..." Because that's almost always the superficial stuff. That's what "Star Wars: The Brand" is. That's not what Star Wars: the stories are.
 

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Sluis Van Shipyards

Legendary Member
Hard pass on the Vong or other "bio" species. "Weird aliens from beyond" isn't what I'm interested in, personally.

Yeah I was not a big fan. And not that it matters, but Lucas said he was not a fan of bioships in SW. It also bugs me that in the books they said they couldn't use the Force against them. I could see not directly, like a mind trick, but at first they acted like a Jedi couldn't even throw objects at them or do anything against them using the Force, which made zero sense.

As for no more white armor, in the old EU Stormtroopers were around quite a bit because of all the warlords who survived and had production facilities to churn out Imperial equipment. In my opinion, I think we need a show or movie from the Empire's POV, kind of how the TIE Fighter game did it, that gets rid of the idiotic trope of Stormtroopers being horrible shots and can't hit anything. They're supposed to be elite troops. I get that they aren't necessarily going to be as good as the Clonetroopers, but still they should be capable. Otherwise the Rebellion would have been short.
 

harrisonp

Sr Member
I get the resistance to the Vong point, my angle was more so moving away from the heavily structured political enemy and moving to something more akin to a barbarian analogue. I wouldn't encourage lifting the YV wholesale, just a kernel of their broad strokes.

Really though I want more underworld stuff and hope we get to see that in Book of Boba beyond just Tatooine.
 

ScourgiousJinx

Well-Known Member
While you know I've always been in agreement with you about venturing elsewhere Solo4114 I've finally accept the fact that the people in charge at Lucasfilm are completely incapable of making anything outside the narrow parameters that have defined this franchise for nearly 50 years. They had every financial resource available to them and had they taken their time, with better planning and leadership they could have done far better, but here we are. The Mandalorian almost had me fooled up until Season 2 and with a few exceptions it all fell apart for me. I'm just relieved that I never had to pay for Disney+. Though for the content I didn't like in that show at least it just disappointed me rather than the downright loathing I felt trying to sit through 7 and 8.

I think your take would be interesting and I would watch something like that because it shows initiative and a genuine attempt to break the mold but nothing like it will never happen. It's not just Lucasfilm either. It's the way the Hollywood system and market for films has shifted so drastically over the last ten years that's left most of the artistry out of big budget movies. That's not to discount the talent that goes into a production, but the writing is largely nothing more than reheating freezer burned pizza. Not even DiGiorno pizza. Not even Elio's. Stop and Shop's version of Elio's pizza.

Part of the reason the movie experience is dying is because original streaming content is willing to take genuine risks on new types of stories, some of which isn't as easily defined into a specific genre. I've been lamenting this for the last 5 years or more, but the pandemic has only further proved my point. How spoiled are we? We've got more access, to more entertainment than one could possibly consume in a lifetime and yet so much of it isn't even worth bothering with!
When mostly what there is is junk people often get completely turned off to the prospect of anything good happening or worse they start to think it's acceptable. Complacency lowers the bar for the entertainment industry. That is a massive problem without an easy solution. There is good new content out there but not a lot and definitely not much when it comes to SW. Disney has a ton of faults and generally doesn't put forth much that I enjoy (there are a few exceptions). I completely agree that the ST, High Republic, Mandalorian season 2 are a complete mess of failed opportunities. But season 1 of the Mandalorian and Rogue One(1000 times better than the ST) showed that Lucasfilm under Disney has the ability to make decent content. That's part of the reason I remain hopeful that Lucasfilm will learn from their mistakes, change leadership and deliver better stories at some point. Until they do so they're not going to get much love or $ from me either. Over 40 years is a long time and you could very well be right that change is not going to happen. Maybe I'm a fool for that hope but I'd rather be a fool with a glimmer of optimism and despite its current faults, smile when I think about SW.
 
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