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Joek3rr

Sr Member
Okay, I need help. I need to dig deep into the history of Lucasfilm. What the heck is all this? "Star Wars Episode VII Shadows of the Sith"? Most seem to be game titles. But that episode title? Is that legit?


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Joek3rr

Sr Member
so you want to go with the idea that Lucasfilm did absolutely no planning and let each director just wing it? Either way bad planning.
I went back and forth and whether or not to reply. Wrote up a big thing, and have been sitting on it for awhile. Anyways I decided to reply. :p

No, I never said that either. What I'm saying it wasn't JJ's job to create treatments for the whole trilogy. Because Michael Ardnt had done that already in 2012.

So you say it takes a year to accept fully that you are nobody and no interesting stories can come from that because that what you are saying.
Since Rey largely comes to peace with that notion, in TLJ. Though there clearly is still some pain when she says her name is "just Rey" to young Passana child. It's no longer a huge issue for her. She confronted her fear in TLJ, in Snoke's throne room, and she was given choice. She could give into that fear and join Kylo, or reject it and move on. She still feels inadequate in TROS, unworthy of carrying the lightsaber. Learning she's a Palpatine cranks that up to 11, in my opinion. It's not that interesting stories can't come from that, it's just they've already been told in the last two films.

Weeks vs years relatively. Rey has 1 year to come to terms with being nobody which shapes her entire identity. Luke had 30 years. Or do you want to show us the scenes where Mace Windu and Yoda preemptively strike down Anakin because he is destined to be Darth Vader?
Um well, Yoda did send Obi-Wan to kill Anakin the moment they learned of his turn so.... And Mace tried justify killing an unarmed Palpatine. "Fear, anger, hate. Consumed by the dark side the Jedi were." - Master Yoda
Again one has to do with her place, where she comes from. It only takes Luke a year to come to peace that he's the son of a Sith Lord. It's not like either of them are free of the dark side. She almost falls in TROS. And Luke has a big if brief slip up in TLJ.

rofl. I cant believe you are arguing that a consequence free universe is a good thing. And where has it been established in the movies that death isnt permanent? Anakin is an idiot since if he waited, his mom and Padme would return in the next movie.
Yeah, because the bad guy coming back as an undead zombie clone is a consequence free universe. If anything it's the opposite. Vader and Palpatine did a bunch of bad stuff. That didn't just disappear over Endor. "Which is to say it’s the characters in the film inheriting everything that’s come before in previous generations, whether it’s sins of the father, whether it’s the wisdom that they’ve acquired." - JJ Abrams
When did the movies establish that death isn't permanent or shall we say forever? The moment that Obi-Wan died yet minutes later his voice is heard. That isn't normal when someone dies. Then in the next film his spirit is manifesting visibly. I've already mentioned the New EU, we have Maul coming back. We have Boba. Darth Momin who's spirit is bound to his mask, the architect who designed Vader's castle. A castle who's purpose is to create a portal to access the Netherworld of the Force. A portal which allows Momin reunite with his body. How about Plagueis who could save people from death?


Umm what retcon? PT introduces the prophecy and it is fulfilled in OT. Unless you mean ST retcons it by making Rey the new one?
Oh come one now. You know very well that the prophecy was retcon introduced in the PT. Before that, it was just about Anakin saving his son, not fulfilling some prophecy. And again the prophecy never says anything about the Chosen One destroying the Sith. The prophecy never appears in any of the films, only what the Jedi believe it says. And George was dead set on retconning it, making Leia the Chosen One.

what explanation. And Darth Maul returning in clone wars and Solo I agree is stupid which only occured because Maul is a fan-favorite.
What explanation? Seriously? "Darth
Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so
powerful and so wise he could use the
Force to influence the midi-chlorians to
create life... He had such a knowledge of
the dark side that he could even keep the
ones he cared about from dying."

"He could actually save people from death?"


"The dark side of the Force is a pathway
to many abilities some consider to be...
unnatural." (Hey where else have I heard this...)

Oh what's this. Cloning tech?
main-qimg-60b7cbfeafd1cffd64a732a0db3cd1be.jpg


And what does Palpatine say to his fanatical followers about himself?
fef240b0801a824d2de321fa122daf76de9b3ce0.gif


So, in case you still can't get this. Unnatural dark side abilities + cloning = necromancy


Force spirits is implied to be a force power Qui Gon learned and taught to Obi Wan and Yoda. It used to be a good thing since they were only guides, unable to interact with the real world (until ST).
So it's a Force power that's learned and Qui-Gon taught it to Yoda and Obi-Wan....and wait why did Anakin become a Force ghost? Was Qui-Gon teaching Vader? You wouldn't know that answer unless you've watched the Mortis arc from The Clone Wars.

Foreshadowing needs to be hints of things that occur before the reveal so that after, you can rewatch the earlier movies and pick up hints of Palpatine's existence. So things in TFA and TLJ. The Snoke is Palpatine reveal would have worked if it appeared in TLJ, with like seeing the Vader mask talk and hearing the voice. Shoving everything in RoS as an explanation is essentially akin to a reton ( what you knew was actually wrong because this). If this is how Lucasfilm wanted to write the story, they really arnt that creative or good at writing.
Snoke isn't Palpatine...
Yeah, let's just hear Palpatine's voice talk to Kylo, some foreshadowing. Isn't it enough to see Kylo communing with Vader's helmet? Let's just reveal that all right now... (Fun fact. In Rey's vision she hears Yoda, Luke, Obi-Wan, herself, Unkar Plutt and Palpatine. She hears "...every Jedi..." Taken from the line. "Every Jedi, including your friend, Obi-Wan Kenobi, is now an enemy of the Republic.")

EDIT duh, it's "any Jedi", not "every Jedi" and comes from Palpatine talking to Anakin. "Only through me can you achieve a power greater then any Jedi."
5978c394197cf7fd1f8b48b7.jpg




Dont remember any objects calling out to them.

Oh so we're talking objects calling out to people. I thought we were talking about visions... Okay well, no, with the exception of Kyber crystals. Which every lightsaber has one inside. And they are supposed partially sentient. But even then I'd say it's appropriate to think of Rey being drawn to lightsaber because of her strong Force sensitivity. JJ says in the commentary that she is being drawn to the Force.
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The point being made that Finn was previously in a main character/lead role like Luke and was demoted to supporting character like Han in the later movies. I know understand why you cant understand most of the points im making.

Yes Finn is a main character, just like Han is a main character. I can't believe your just going to call him a secondary character. But Finn is not THE main character.

I said Finn is a duel and arguable more main lead character than Rey in TFA. Just watch TFA with an open mind and tell me how important Finn is to the story. Rey is resistant to change and is more passive, wanting to remain on Jakku.

Finn is as important to the story as Poe is. Yes Rey is resistant to change. That's apart of Heroine's Journey (and the Hero's Journey, Luke is resistant to change as well)


Yeah I forgot he didnt go looking for BB-8. he just happened to run into Rey and BB (excellent writing /s). Funny how you jump on Rey and dont discuss the main point which is that Finn is essentially a main character with close to equal action and contribution to the story as Rey in TFA. Yes Finn runs away because that is his character. Funny that the camera focuses on him and his return to save Rey. If he was a side character, they probably would have written him out until he makes a surprise return to save Rey.

And you clearly dont understand what a Mary Sue is and why those criticisms apply to Rey. Rey is never in any mortal danger that requires outside assistance. She escapes Starkiller base on her own, is able to use advanced jedi powers immediately upon awakening them, never has any critical weaknesses that result in a loss or maiming, actually never loses a fight, need I go on? For a good example, think Captain Marvel in the MCU who basically goes through Rey's exact storyline and character development to a T.

Right because Rey totally flew the Falcon and maned the turret at the same time. She totally took the Praetorian guards by herself. She totally wasn't tossed around like a rag doll by Snoke. She totally didn't die facing Palpatine...

Ah, you've hit on another part of the Heroine's Journey (and Hero's Journey) the hero or heroine succeeds at first. They are successful. Anakin wins the podrace, blows up the droid control ship, saves the day. Luke destroys the Death Star, saves the day. Rey defeats Kylo, which doesn't save the day, but still she succeeds. The losses come next. Fails to bring Luke back, fails to turn Kylo. In TROS, she is on the retreat the entirety of her duel with Kylo. She isn't able run him through, until she has outside help...
Lol what does it matter if we take a character out. Point is Finn was a main character whose actions had impact in TFA. He is demoted to side character whose actions and influence have gradually less impact as the movies go on.

Are we referencing the big bang theory now? Indiana Jones is the driving force to find the ark. If Indy wasnt there, the Nazis would have kept digging in the wrong place. Indy finds the actual ark, loses it to the Nazis who open it and kill themselves, and has it delivered to the US government which is then left in a warehouse. If anything, Indy made things worse by helping the Nazis find the lost ark. Try to get the joke right.
Lol, no. The Nazi's were already looking for the ark, that's why Indiana was asked to help. Without Indiana, the Nazi's would have acquired the Head Piece of Ra, found the ark. Opened it, and all died. The only thing that results of Indiana's involvement is the ark being taken to Area 51. But I digress.
 
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Psab keel

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I saw this video a few years ago. Not only is the trick impressive but the fact that Harrison allowed them to film inside his house is pretty crazy. He's notorious for being extremely private and having social anxiety. Every time I see David Blane I think of this:

 

Inquisitor Peregrinus

Master Member
It seems like one faction has to wear clone trooper/stormtrooper-esque armor. I remember when the cinematics for SWTOR came out, and I'm thinking, "they look like clone troopers....what the heck?"
That was actually one of the things that evolved out of the PT and its ancillary material that I really liked. Three thousand years ago, those were the Republic's troopers raised and equipped against the Sith Empire's aggression. After that whole period of tumult died down, the Republic disarmed. When Sifo-Dyas (or someone posing as him) commissioned the clone army from Kamino... Well, as Lama Su said, "This army is for the Republic." The Kaminoans contracted with several arms and equipment manufacturers to provide matériel for the army -- including an updated version of the Republic Trooper armor from the last big conflict.

As the Great Clone War dragged on, feedback from the battlefield led to improvements in the helmet design based on contemporary need. The now-retroactive Phase I design was superseded by the improved Phase II, then the Phase III. By the prologue of Solo, less than a decade after the end of the Clone War, they had settled into the final-ish Phase IV design, but it still kept getting tweaked all the way up through the collapse of the Empire. But it was all a throughline, in a very Roman way. The early legionaries of the Punic Wars would have totally recognized the late-Empire legionaries right before the Western Empire broke up into the Gothic Kingdoms of the so-called Holy Roman Empire. The GFFA has more cultural and technological stasis than Reality-Land, because they are well in advance of us. The span of time between when the Italian kingdoms banded together into the Roman Republic until the collapse of the Roman Empire was, generously, and rounding up, a thousand years. In the film setting, it's more than twenty times that. But all during that time, there are lightsabers, speeders, and faster-than-light spaceflight. So I have no problem with white-armored "legionaries" being a thing for a relatively small percentage of that whole span (maybe a seventh -- and intermittently, at that).

I agree with Dan, though, that one thing that would have been nice to see after the fall of the Empire would have been the fading away of that icon to be replaced by something else. The New Republic was as keen to demilitarize as the Old Republic had been, so I reject the military forces the old novels gave us. I figure by the setting of the Sequels, any ground forces would be as limited as their navy, and probably as garrisoned. After the big First Order/Final Order shakeup, I can't see the New Republic continuing. Too many Senators supported the First Order and/or wanted the Empire back. And the same problem would have arisen, if it wasn't already, as in the Old Republic Senate: Too many conflicting philosophies and species-moralities.

After what we saw at the end of TROS, I anticipate something between NATO and the UN. Independent worlds or groups of worlds making agreements and signing treaties and such, but no unified government. Definitely no panacæa. Look at how effective our UN has been at eliminating warlords and famine and genocide and drug cartels and slavers. So, while we may get a period of better stability than we've seen in a while, I would be automatically suspect of any "happily ever after" Star Wars tries to sell us.
 

HeartBlade

Sr Member
That was actually one of the things that evolved out of the PT and its ancillary material that I really liked. Three thousand years ago, those were the Republic's troopers raised and equipped against the Sith Empire's aggression. After that whole period of tumult died down, the Republic disarmed. When Sifo-Dyas (or someone posing as him) commissioned the clone army from Kamino... Well, as Lama Su said, "This army is for the Republic." The Kaminoans contracted with several arms and equipment manufacturers to provide matériel for the army -- including an updated version of the Republic Trooper armor from the last big conflict.

As the Great Clone War dragged on, feedback from the battlefield led to improvements in the helmet design based on contemporary need. The now-retroactive Phase I design was superseded by the improved Phase II, then the Phase III. By the prologue of Solo, less than a decade after the end of the Clone War, they had settled into the final-ish Phase IV design, but it still kept getting tweaked all the way up through the collapse of the Empire. But it was all a throughline, in a very Roman way. The early legionaries of the Punic Wars would have totally recognized the late-Empire legionaries right before the Western Empire broke up into the Gothic Kingdoms of the so-called Holy Roman Empire. The GFFA has more cultural and technological stasis than Reality-Land, because they are well in advance of us. The span of time between when the Italian kingdoms banded together into the Roman Republic until the collapse of the Roman Empire was, generously, and rounding up, a thousand years. In the film setting, it's more than twenty times that. But all during that time, there are lightsabers, speeders, and faster-than-light spaceflight. So I have no problem with white-armored "legionaries" being a thing for a relatively small percentage of that whole span (maybe a seventh -- and intermittently, at that).

I agree with Dan, though, that one thing that would have been nice to see after the fall of the Empire would have been the fading away of that icon to be replaced by something else. The New Republic was as keen to demilitarize as the Old Republic had been, so I reject the military forces the old novels gave us. I figure by the setting of the Sequels, any ground forces would be as limited as their navy, and probably as garrisoned. After the big First Order/Final Order shakeup, I can't see the New Republic continuing. Too many Senators supported the First Order and/or wanted the Empire back. And the same problem would have arisen, if it wasn't already, as in the Old Republic Senate: Too many conflicting philosophies and species-moralities.

After what we saw at the end of TROS, I anticipate something between NATO and the UN. Independent worlds or groups of worlds making agreements and signing treaties and such, but no unified government. Definitely no panacæa. Look at how effective our UN has been at eliminating warlords and famine and genocide and drug cartels and slavers. So, while we may get a period of better stability than we've seen in a while, I would be automatically suspect of any "happily ever after" Star Wars tries to sell us.
Problem is ST leaves no possibility of a happy ending because it avoided answering the hard question of how do you rebuild a government that is best for people with many differing interests. I dont even see the UN as a possibility, only bilateral trade agreements and possibly alliances against emerging world powers on the galactic stage.

The first order’s attack with starkiller base is the equivalent of a terrorist group launching nuclear missiles and destroying several small countries with no retaliation. The galactic government was busy debating while planets got wiped out and given that the resistance was not government sponsored, you cant argue that the galactic “UN” solved anything.

A planet should focus on improving their defenses should another planet attack occur and not bother with the UN which is all talk and no action. There would naturally be an arms race with military manufacturers making a killing as planets buy arms to strengthen themselves.

At best, there is a faction split between pro and anti First order supporters similar to US vs USSR with a NATO-alliance and the galaxy in a permanent cold war. A worse case scenario would be many factions vying for power and an active warring galaxy.

Nevermind the fact that Palpatine apparently cant die now so he can always come back and light a fuse to start another war.
 

HeartBlade

Sr Member
what tv shows or movies are people watching now?

Yeah honestly Hollywood has become really boring. I dont know what everyone is checking out now but Ive honestly been watching reruns of old movies and tv shows Ive enjoyed or been exploring other streaming shows (the boys and the expanse).

I tried out John Wick recently and although the first 2 were good, the 3rd killed the momentum with bad writing. The plot for the first 2 were barebones revenge fantasy but still obeyed its own universe’s internal rules and the gun-fu made up for the enjoyment. 3 just threw alot of those rules out the window, especially with its ending which is a shame because the first two were decent.
 

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Joek3rr

Sr Member
what tv shows or movies are people watching now?

Yeah honestly Hollywood has become really boring. I dont know what everyone is checking out now but Ive honestly been watching reruns of old movies and tv shows Ive enjoyed or been exploring other streaming shows (the boys and the expanse).

I tried out John Wick recently and although the first 2 were good, the 3rd killed the momentum with bad writing. The plot for the first 2 were barebones revenge fantasy but still obeyed its own universe’s internal rules and the gun-fu made up for the enjoyment. 3 just threw alot of those rules out the window, especially with its ending which is a shame because the first two were decent.
Here are the three latest films my family has watched.




Classics all around. For new stuff. Honestly, the only thing I've remotely enjoyed was the new Godzilla. All the Marvel shows have been "meh". I'm excited for The Bad Batch though!!
 

Joek3rr

Sr Member
star-wars-may-the-4th-2021-TALL-3973202-1024x576.jpg

Happy Star Wars day!

So yesterday I was listening to some Star Wars music. And the first track I got was so good. I thought to myself "I should share it with everyone tomorrow." But then I started putting together a playlist. So here's a May 4th playlist, it's 50 of my favorite pieces from the Star Wars films. Feel free to share and listen anytime of the year. Because really Star Wars day is ever day....

And for those who want everything, from the 9 John Williams scored films. Here's my complete STAR WARS The Skywalker Saga playlist. This is a compilation of all the 9 extended scores.


And for those who just want the album releases.

 

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