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I do think the OT duels just hold a special place because they were the first duels we see and the meaning behind it.

ESB is a duel between good and light and “subverts” expectations by having the good guy lose and get crippled in the process as well as the big reveal.

RotJ is the first time we see a Jedi knight in his prime vs Vader as well as the huge leap in strength Luke gained between the 2 movies. In ESB, Luke was a joke, like a little kid swinging his arms while Vader held his head back. In RotJ, Luke is a threat that bested Vader.

The rebels one is also quite amazing but it’s really so because of all the fights we have seen Obi Wan and Maul go through against each other. Without that history, it’s not as satisfying. Also, given the audience love for action and stunts, I don’t think it could have gone over well on the big screen (maybe as the finale of Obi vs Anakin after the long duel).
 
I love Jabba's sail barge fight for the same reasons. From R2 shooting the lightsaber over, to him flipping back onto the skiff to catch it, to cutting Boba's blaster in half. I still get amped up watching it. Luke is not only badass in that moment but he's also resourceful, clever, willing to be diplomatic until he no longer can.

Another thing about that scene, and older movies in general, I love is that Luke looks like he's working hard at beating up the bad guys. Ever since the Matrix, we get a lot of characters that fight with a nonchalant demeaner where defeating enemies just seems effortless. When it looks that easy, the stakes don't seem as high. It worked for that movie because Neo is all but invincible. When most other characters do it though, it's cliché.
 
I do think the OT duels just hold a special place because they were the first duels we see and the meaning behind it.

ESB is a duel between good and light and “subverts” expectations by having the good guy lose and get crippled in the process as well as the big reveal.

RotJ is the first time we see a Jedi knight in his prime vs Vader as well as the huge leap in strength Luke gained between the 2 movies. In ESB, Luke was a joke, like a little kid swinging his arms while Vader held his head back. In RotJ, Luke is a threat that bested Vader.

The rebels one is also quite amazing but it’s really so because of all the fights we have seen Obi Wan and Maul go through against each other. Without that history, it’s not as satisfying. Also, given the audience love for action and stunts, I don’t think it could have gone over well on the big screen (maybe as the finale of Obi vs Anakin after the long duel).
HeartBlade,
Like your duel analysis. Also, the comment about “the big reveal” which spawned a recollection of an 1980 event. Stood in line in New York for one of the first showings of ESB. After the movie, I drive past a line of folks waiting that goes around the theater block. My son who is now 50, in the back of my car, sticks his head out and yells “Darth Vader is Luke’s father.” I still shudder at the fear of expecting gun shots. Thanks for the memory.
Searun
 
Why did I read that as Sphincter of The Minds Eye?...... o_O
Well, sphincter eyes are canon, you know...part of the proud additions and legacy of the Sequel Trilogy.

It may account for what you thought you read.

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Jumping off the poop train...

I finished Heir to the Empire the other day and I was honestly kind of underwhelmed. It’s better than Aftermath as far as that period goes, but it has all the earmarks of Lucas’ control over those characters and how they’re not really allowed to evolve in any meaningful ways. It’s also just as hokey and referential as the worst parts of the new canon. If there’s a speeder bike around you can be SURE that Luke will mention riding one on Endor etc.

I think a large part of it was that I never read it when it first came out because I was very young and missed out on that era of the burgeoning EU
 
"Jumping off the poop train" would be my first single if I had a band.

I haven't read that trilogy in well over a decade and I tried to reread it, but just couldn't get into it. I read it at least 3-4 times and had it on audio tape. Yes, cassette tapes. I would rather keep my memories of it as just that, memories. I'm to the point where my first instinct is to just accept Return of the Jedi as the true end of Luke's story. Even when I first read Heir to the Empire back in the early nineties the EU was never the definitive story to me.

While it felt like a natural continuation in a lot of ways the movies were always the core canon and the EU was just bonus material. Not because Lucas dictated it as such, but because Star Wars started and ended as a movie which is a specific story telling experience and medium, unlike any other. Everything that came out as a result of it was merely to support or supplement those movies, which is why I scoff at the notion of giving a Star Wars novel, TV show, Comic, Video game, etc the same credence as the films themselves. One is the story. The other is just filler.

Star Wars is a movie. It's best as a movie. It was always meant to be a movie. There's nothing wrong with enjoying ancillary content inspired by them but they will always be derivatives of those films.
 
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Talking to my oldest SW buddy the other night, & we were actually discussing the differences between the old EU & the new canon, based strictly on what our 'feelings' were back then compared to now.

I think I found my thoughts on the current perceived issues with the new canon & I remembered something I was told years ago about hiring professionals.

I heard that if you need a lawyer or a doctor, you almost want a jerk. Reasoning being, a friendly, 'want you to like me' attitude having, buddy type person will find it harder to do the parts of the job that you might not like. You want someone that is personally detached who can be brutally honest & get the job done to the best of their ability.

Now let's look at the powers that be in current SW productions...

We can't hear about ANYONE without there being a biography of the person's long-standing love & history of SW, & therein lies the problem. If it's not just promotional hype, & they really worship SW as they tell us, then they're just too close to it to make it what it needs to be.

SW, or any other franchise for that matter, needs people who can take the facts of the universe, play in that world, but do it without the constant wink & nod nudges into our brains. Just tell me a good story without trying to force me to think that we used to play action figures together in the backyard.

If I hire a lawyer, I pay to win a case. If I go to a doctor, I pay to be cured or have my health/quality of life improved. In neither case am I paying to get a new friend. If I pay to consume media, I pay my money to connect with the product, not with the producers.

All this, just my opinion of course, but I wanted to share it.
 
I, personally, don't like Harve Bennett's idea to upend Khan's ending from "Space Seed", but I can't argue that his outsider's perspective is what kept Star Trek from dying in the early '80s. Not from lack of interest from the fans, but Paramount not wanting to take the gamble. Might not have gotten The Next Generation or everything that came after. Just some more novels and comics, probably. And, I know it's not everyone's opinion, but I found the best TNG to be the stuff we got under Maurey Hurley's watch -- late first season through second. He was brought in because he was a good producer -- same as Harve, over in the movies. The writers' room, full of Star Trek fans, hated him, because he kept rewriting their scripts so they adhered to the dictates of Gene, that he saw it as his job to enforce, whether he agreed with them or not. Heck, this goes all the way back to the Original Series. Harlan Ellison was angry for the rest of his life that his script for "City on the Edge of Forever" got heavily rewritten. His draft was a good and compelling story... but not good Star Trek. I'd've loved to see his script adapted into a standalone work, but I firmly stand by the rightness of the rewrite.

Star Wars needs that. As inconsistent as Gene and George have been over their lives without realizing it (Gene had recognized that he'd evolved as a person, but didn't believe it had changed his take on Star Trek, as a reflection of his own mind), they were still the Final Say. Even with the shifting view of those created worlds over the decades, it was still a more consistent vision than even one person removed. Harve and Gene clashed constantly, to the point Paramount kicked Gene off his own creation. Maurey got so sick of Gene's lack of consistency he ended up quitting. But Star Wars has never had anything like that. Not even, really, George.

Star Wars was part George, but the final film we saw was Marcia's. Empire was part George, but the final film we got was majority the blend of Leigh, Larry, and Irv. Jedi was the most unfiltered George, and I think it suffered for it. It's been pointed out lots of times over they years, but it's a matter of basic storytelling structure. In Star Wars, all the plot threads converge on the battle over the Death Star. In Empire, all the plot threads converge on Cloud City and Luke's failed attempt to save his friends. In Jedi, we spend the entire third act bouncing between the land battle, the space battle, and Luke's tribulation.

Then the Prequels happened, and much of what we got there is Rick. He's the one who convinced George to do them. He's the one who convinced George the saga was the story of the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. He was involed heavily all the way through the trilogy. And whatever he brought to the equation, it wasn't narrative clarity. TPM was even worse than Jedi -- four separate plot threads taking up the last act of the film, not coming together until the coda.

In a real sense, Dave and Jon are the most consistent, coherent vision guiding Star Wars ever.

There was none in the early ancillary fiction. There are contradictions between them, between them and the films... By the '90s, the licensing division was making sure the new stuff that came out didn't contradict each other, earlier works, or the films -- which has led to some annoying misinterpretations being perpetuated and canonized. When the Story Group was formed, it was still from a point of view of making sure all the proposed content coming though was in agreement with each other and the extant canon, and not from creating that content themselves. With the exception of Shadows of the Empire (which should never have been a thing), there was no single vision directing the EU -- it was just author after author showing up and going, "Hey -- I have this idea..."

Same holds true now. Kathleen is a businessperson. She enjoys Star Wars, but doesn't "get" it, knows she doesn't, and doesn't presume to dictate. But the problem is, she's missed the final step of that chain -- recognizing that someone needs to. So the post-Disney-sale content, while all on the same level of canon, still lack a consistent overseeing vision. So the books and comics and games are just spooling out stories, and running into the same problem as the old EU -- the adventures Our Heroes are up to are cramming the timeline wall to wall. They never get two seconds to catch their breath. One narrow escape into the next crisis into the following upheaval into... *sigh*
 
That was an aspect of the EU that I considered often while reading the novels back the the 90s. Don't these people ever have even a moment's peace? One of the novels even started with them on a vacation and an unexpected battle ensued. I get that it's Star Wars but even warriors do take a respite for extended periods of time. Every spare moment of their lives was spent fighting or running or chasing etc. I felt exhausted for them. Which is why at some point the Skywalker story had to end because otherwise as an audience member I didn't get closure (catharsis) just as the characters didn't. As imperfect as Return of the Jedi was, I was perfectly fine with it being happily ever after. I'd much rather have an elated experience with this kind of story than a mostly bittersweet one.

As far as Star Wars having an overall vision it could be argued that as a franchise it's been largely a mess trying to wrangle in too many people's ideas over too long of a period of time to be truly cohesive. Part of it is the fact that we now have fans making the official films and they may be too close to the material that they are precious with it and don't take true risks (JJ) or people interested in deconstructing it (Rian) and neither approach is really a good one. Plus the vision of its creator is so open ended and vague that it naturally lends itself to multiple interpretations so drastically different that it's no wonder people can't always agree.

Filoni and Favreau seem to have a decent enough balance of respect and knowledge of the material but also posess the sensibility to understand the need to try new things while still working within the established structure. They aren't perfect at it but I'd say they are the best anyone's come in a long time.

I think the key to what makes Star Wars magic is timeless themes. Sure it's dressed up in lightsaber battles and dogfights and aliens, but the core has always been an optimistic adventure story with themes that everyone can relate to. Like loyalty, friendship, love, good conquering evil, etc. Themes that transcend our apparent differences and speak to the human experience so that ANYONE can relate no matter who you are. Which is why the notion that Star Wars needs to suddenly be more inclusive is absurd because it was written for all to enjoy and take what you like from it . Most of the people who write these stories get caught up in the spectacle and forget to write a compelling story with a clear theme.

Without it, Star Wars is just like every other knockoff sci-fi without a heart.
 
I always thought the same thing, that they never have peace. That's why I liked when they started doing the X-Wing books because we got to see regular soldiers doing their jobs and not just the main cast running around doing everything. Of course on the flip side to that, there were several books where a threat pops up that Luke would definitely be trotted out to confront, but he's too busy so the B Team is sent out.


As for people working on this being fans and too close to the property, well then explain the Sequels! I seriously doubt JJ or RJ are that into SW. If they were I can't see them screwing it up THAT much and picking ship/vehicle designs that were that bad. I've seen SW fanfilms whose creators had a better grasp of SW than those overpaid "geniuses".
 
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