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HeartBlade

Sr Member
Leia is not male and Lando is not white. Lucas did it first and he did it better.

Yup. Lucas also already had the first black Jedi with Mace Windu, the rebellion was actually diverse with aliens and people from various races, and the Jedi order itself is also quite multi-cultural. Hell, Obi Wan would have been Japanese had Lucas gotten his way.

It’s just that Lucas was focused on telling a good story and not about “diversity.” It really bugs me when “fans” criticize Star Wars as being “too white” because it’s just false. I do think calling out Disney is justified since despite their marketing focusing on diversity, they did it worse.
 

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cboath

Master Member
Yeah, Disney (and i'm guessing that part was pure Disney) pushed the diversity angle big time. I remember it was initially a point of contention when they started off with it, too. I'm not saying they don't deserve flack for not following through on that.

You can't say, though, they didn't know how to handle people of color as the reason when the role wasn't not written as a person of color. The bit about the FO being all white/alt right....we see only a handful of non-trooper characters of the FO. The only stormtrooper we ever see unmasker, I believe in the entire series 1-9, is Finn. When we see fin helmetless and he's confronted, his race/color is never referenced. When he meets Rey, then Han and Chewie, then the resistance, etc, it is never mentioned. So, the role, wasn't written as a character of color. The writers didn't treat that part any different than any other character in that regard either.

If you want to say the director or management of the studio is racist, that's another issue altogether. But, he didn't say that. He said they didn't know how to write for people of color and that's why their plotlines were dropped. I don't buy that as the reasoning because they parts weren't written as people of color.
 

HeartBlade

Sr Member
Yeah, Disney (and i'm guessing that part was pure Disney) pushed the diversity angle big time. I remember it was initially a point of contention when they started off with it, too. I'm not saying they don't deserve flack for not following through on that.

You can't say, though, they didn't know how to handle people of color as the reason when the role wasn't not written as a person of color. The bit about the FO being all white/alt right....we see only a handful of non-trooper characters of the FO. The only stormtrooper we ever see unmasker, I believe in the entire series 1-9, is Finn. When we see fin helmetless and he's confronted, his race/color is never referenced. When he meets Rey, then Han and Chewie, then the resistance, etc, it is never mentioned. So, the role, wasn't written as a character of color. The writers didn't treat that part any different than any other character in that regard either.

If you want to say the director or management of the studio is racist, that's another issue altogether. But, he didn't say that. He said they didn't know how to write for people of color and that's why their plotlines were dropped. I don't buy that as the reasoning because they parts weren't written as people of color.

This is also true. The role description for casting Rey and Finn were ambiguous and open to all ethnicities.


And given the fact that other white actors also had poorly developed roles that they didn’t seem to know what to do with (Poe, Phasma, Holdo), there isn’t a need to attribute malice to what can be summarized as incompetence.

I do think if you push the diversity angle, you better make damn sure your diverse cast get good roles and development. If you advertise your cafe makes amazing cakes but put out mediocre cakes, customers will complain and your defense but the rest of our food sucks too isn’t sufficient.
 

Psab keel

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
To touch briefly on the comments themselves I will say I think John's original statements (which are his true feelings on the matter despite the clearly scripted by a publicist retractions he just made) are spot on though misconstrued by the public.

He's not implying that Lucasfilm is racist, but merely pointing out the hypocrisy of their marketing in pushing diversity as being a primary strength of the story when the people of color are relegated to supporting roles that have no real impact, if at all, on the story. I think his perspective has merit given the way Lucasfilm, like so many other studios, have a tendency to pat themselves on the back as though they are breaking down barriers when in fact they aren't. The issue John raised is with the poor marketing tactics used to draw audiences into the theater because then the focus gets pulled from the story and that's never good.

It all comes down to the script. It always does and it is well known that Star Wars has been mostly cast blind to color, or gender right from the beginning so I have to scoff at the notion that these stories aren't inclusive. It's themes transcend those differences because anyone from anywhere can relate. That's what makes these movies timeless. Red Letter Media touched on this subject in their Prequel reviews with regards to casting and marketing.

It was not my intention to start some sort of debate on race in entertainment. Far from it. My interest, as I said before has more to do with the fact that actors are now being pressured to tow the company line or face possible consequences to their careers. I'm sure this has always been the case but it's only been magnified by our current culture and I think it only further erodes any shred of artistic integrity movies have left.
 
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Sluis Van Shipyards

Master Member
Given that basis, you could say John is calling them out for their BS, that for all their fluff they really only gave the good parts to “white people” aka Ben and Rey. John was definitely a dual protagonist, at least in TFA given that the movie essentially kicks off with his defection and Finn is the “main character” alongside Rey. Finn does get shoved into the background as the “side character” to Rose and essentially stays there until the end of the series.

There were good parts? :lol: ;)

Diversity is great, but making that the complete objective of your movie to prove how woke you are, isn't a good way to make a movie. You write a great story and then populate it.
 

Inquisitor Peregrinus

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
A key element for me would also be the discrediting of Leia in front of the New Republic senate in the midst of calls for decentralizing their forces. Leia would be in favor of maintaining their strong govt while others claim it is overreach. Kylo Ren and his knights or whoever would burst in and blow the lid off her lineage, sowing seeds of doubt once people know she’s the daughter of Vader. I do think Bloodline(s?) touched on some of that but I haven’t read it. This would make the whole splintered off Resistance thing make sense.
Bloodline is the inverse of that. Leia's paternity is revealed by a political rival while Ben is off with Luke, out of contact. They hadn't told him and now she's dreading how he's going to react when they get back in range of the news broadcasts and he finds out that way.

kind of dived into a small rabbit hole watching the 1990 release of witches vs the one released in 2020. I do feel that movies nowadays seem to pull their punches when it comes to horror and gore. Kids movies and Disney movies back in the 80s and 90s had some horrifying or traumatizing scenes (Bambi’s mom getting shot, Fantasia, kids turning into donkey slaves). This followed the Grimm brothers’ principle of scaring children so they understand the moral of the story.
Heck, go back and watch The Black Hole. Cheesy in some respects, great production values, though. Another Disney marketing fail. It's not science-fiction, it's gothic horror... in space. It's The Island of Doctor Moreau mixed with Faust. There's a lot of eerie in the first act, and a lot of ghastly in the third. The reveal of what Reinhardt had done with the Cygnus' crew, and the death of Dr. Durant were pretty gruesome for a Disney movie.

I also remember them famously saying they'd never release The Black Cauldron on home-video, due to the violence and death inherent in the story. But then, in the late '90s, they did.
 

jkno

Master Member
kisssss.jpg
 

Psab keel

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Time is very inconsistent in this galaxy. (But in reality it's the writing that's inconsistent).

OT : For over a thousand generations the Jedi knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic, before the dark times, before the Empire.

PT: I will not let this Republic which has stood for a thousand years be split in two.

To my understanding a generation is generally considered to be 10 years. So by that math in the OT the Republic was over 10,000 years old and in the PT it was 1000 years. Big difference there.

I know RLM covered this but it came to mind after the video I posted in the Gondolorian thread.
 

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