Lets talk all things Star Wars
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The Brahma Bull
Sr Member
The "never happened" timeline is the one I would prefer. Just delete and burn every copy of this sick stuff.
I'm still in for a whole new ST with the final climax of Darth Jar Jar in the new episode 8.
Joek3rr
Master Member
1.
"OK, wait. You were First Order?"
"Not by choice. We were conscripted as kids. All of us. I was TZ-1719. Stormtrooper."
"FN-2187."
"You?"
"I never knew there were more."
"Deserters? All of us here were stormtroopers. We mutinied at the Battle of Ansett Island. They told us to fire on civilians. We wouldn’t do it. We laid our weapons down."
"All of you?"
"The whole company. (chuckles) I don’t even know how it happened. It wasn’t a decision, really, it was like...."
"An instinct. Feeling."
"A feeling."
"The Force. The Force brought me here. It brought me to Rey. And Poe."
2.
3.
Where in the films is ever stated that a mind trick is an advanced power?
I only know what I see in the films. There are two facts.
A} A certain aspect of the Force is instinctive, innate.
"This time, let go your conscious self and act on instinct."
"Feel. Don't think. Trust your instincts."
"She's just beginning to test her powers. The longer it takes to find her, the more dangerous she becomes."
B) Another aspect of the Force involves learning and teaching.
"When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to
you."
"I don't understand."
"With time and training, Annie...you will."
"I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my father."
"She's strong with the Force, untrained but, stronger than she knows."
4.
As I said they are most likely unwilling or unable to fight. I lean towards unwilling. Why would they want to get wrapped in another galactic conflict? The inter trilogy period seems to be very heavily inspired by the interwar period between WW1 and WW2. In Great Britain, certain political members were willing to bend over backward to avoid a war. Remember "peace in our time"?
5.
Apparently so. This guy funded an army complete with ships and nobody found out about it for 10 years.
The First Order and the Final Order have the added bonuses of being hidden away in the Unkown Regions. Perfect place to plan a blitzkrieg to retake the galaxy.
6.
Yep, because cool-looking characters are always important and don't go out like total chumps.
7.
Finn is a Stormtrooper, that's been stationed in several different places. And like anyone in the military they take their turn doing menial tasks.
The problem with the ST is they are suddenly tasked with setting up the New Republic 30 years after ROTJ. But ROTJ doesn't end with any notion of the creation of the New Republic. Nobody even mentions it in the OT. So why take all the time to set up something that's gonna get blown up, that only your hardcore fans that up on the post-ROTJ EU are going to know about, that the previous trilogy didn't bother with? A bit of a rock and hard place problem. A viewer like my mother wouldn't get what's going on anyway, so it wouldn't make a difference to her if they went into details.
HeartBlade
Sr Member
1. So they key to waking up from the hypnosis is firing on citizens. Cool. Do they have to hit a certain number or is any citizen ok? I guess burning them to death is ok though.
2. Like I said, old man is a McGuffin so he is just there for plot so can be a throwaway. Would have been nicer if he was a former ally we knew but whatever.
3. Usually mind control and persuasion is more difficult than just pushing someone. The fact that Luke never uses mind control until RotJ and he explicitly uses force persuasion to display his competency (that he completed his training) implies it is a more advanced power.
4. Because the conflict hadn’t ended yet. And this is still speculation because we don’t see any anti-war protestors or discussion of fatigue. And heroes like Leia is still on the front lines risking her life so who are these yahoos that just show up in the first place and why arnt they defending themselves? The fact that these complete unknowns are also the leaders of the new republic make no sense.
5. Problem is that is now a ton of expenses. Clone army + empire weaponry + first order + final order stuff? It also makes the new republic even more incompetent in the fact that they are easily outspent but a single dude.
6. yeah Jango after sure was a chump. He essentially tied with Obi-Wan man to man, destroyed him in space combat, and killed several Jedi, finally being beaten by Mace Windu who the second in command on the Jedi council and thus audiences can imply is the second strongest Jedi to Yoda. What a chump.
Boba Fett I give you that. Grevious was a coughing robot and wasn’t cool. He still had an impressive display with four lightsabers and essentially forced Obi wan to use a blaster to win. Not exactly losing like a chump either.
Phasma’s accomplishments were being tossed down a garbage compactor and losing to Finn after a short duel. Despite all the hype brought up by Disney with her being the first female villain. Disney really did Christie dirty with that role.
7. problem is they make Finn out to be like a joke. If it is normal procedure, Finn would have just outright said it but hid the source of his knowledge implying embarrassment.
and it’s not about will casual fans like it, it’s about setting up the situation. PT went too far by delving too much into the politics which lost super casuals but a quick throwaway line (the new republic is too busy bickering amongst themselves to notice the threat of the first order, the new republic established a peace mandate and ceased all hostilities, why don’t you make them take action Leia? No my family ties have made me an outcast) would be enough to inform us of the situation.
I don’t think it was just me asking why isn’t the big new republic doing something instead of relying on this ragtag resistance team?
John Boyega got a call from Kathleen Kennedy about his comments from a few months ago when he spoke disparingly about the ST.
Surprise, surprise he walked them back. When I can I'll post the article. It's just PR bull. I swear as time goes on its so obvious what's going on that it only cements my position.
www.yahoo.com
Surprise, surprise he walked them back. When I can I'll post the article. It's just PR bull. I swear as time goes on its so obvious what's going on that it only cements my position.
John Boyega, ‘Star Wars’ Boss Had ‘Transparent’ Talk After He Complained Nonwhite Characters Were Marginalized
John Boyega said he had a “transparent, honest conversation” with producer Kathleen Kennedy about race in the “Star Wars” films after he previously called out Disney and Lucasfilm for only giving “all the nuance” to the franchise’s white stars.Boyega said he and Kennedy had a “really nice” phone...
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Darth Lars
Master Member
They are called "ejection straps", and are obviously inspired by real-world ejection straps.
In ANH, Porkins was told to eject before he crashed, so apparently X-wings have ejection seats.
In some EU novels, pilots would eject into space and be protected by emergency force fields emitted by their ejection seats.
Perhaps a parachute is installed in the seat for when ejecting in atmosphere.
In the real world, an ejection strap's function could be to attach to the parachute, but they could also have the function of pulling the pilot's leg to the chair to prevent injury to the legs during ejection.
I imagine from a real world perspective it's as you mentioned, supposed to be a visual cue to the parachute harness that you'd see on a flight suit. As for the in universe explanation, I couldn't say for sure. Perhaps it's part of a similar ejection harness, though I'd imagine the pilots more often get shot down before they have a chance to eject. My reasoning for this is because even in the Death Star battle from ANH you do hear Biggs and other pilots saying things like, "Eject!" That would be my best guess.
HeartBlade
Sr Member
John Boyega got a call from Kathleen Kennedy about his comments from a few months ago when he spoke disparingly about the ST.
Surprise, surprise he walked them back. When I can I'll post the article. It's just PR bull. I swear as time goes on its so obvious what's going on that it only cements my position.
John Boyega, ‘Star Wars’ Boss Had ‘Transparent’ Talk After He Complained Nonwhite Characters Were Marginalized
John Boyega said he had a “transparent, honest conversation” with producer Kathleen Kennedy about race in the “Star Wars” films after he previously called out Disney and Lucasfilm for only giving “all the nuance” to the franchise’s white stars.Boyega said he and Kennedy had a “really nice” phone...
Hey, maybe KK was telling John they didn’t know what to do with any of the characters and thus neither Rey nor Kylo didn’t intend to have any depth/character development either so everyone was treated equally lol.
But to be fair to Disney, no one not named Luke, Rey, or Ben got any real character development or nuance, regardless of race. Phasma is wasted potential. Poe is an eccentric ace pilot. Rose was walking exposition that was written off. Hux was a caricature of modern alt-right. I don’t know what to describe Holdo (fake-out traitor?)
Even setting aside the larger discussion that is taking up the national stage, I just find this to be one more instance of actors trying to speak their piece on the content of the movies and Lucasfilm reminding them they are under contract if what they say has the potential to hurt the brand. Now that said, this is nothing new to this trilogy and we all saw what happened with Mark. I do feel somewhat bad for John and much of the cast likely being saddled with clauses in their contracts that says they can't sully the brand and it's rumored that even George had this provision when he sold the company . I mean from a business perspective I know it's the smart move to make, but one that reeks of corporate scheming rather than artistic integrity.
As much as I disagree with George on a lot of his creative choices, I don't recall him having to speak with his actors if they spoke ill of his movies much less hearing about it in the news. Part of that may be due to social media not being in existence then, but I think that's only part of it. Often if those actors retracted what they said I'd imagine it was out of respect for their director and not because they were strong armed into publicly apologizing because they were in breach of contract.
This instance seems especially noteworthy because while Mark was tactful enough to couch his true thoughts in humor, John was very boldly speaking his mind in a very unapologetic way, which I really respect him for. Though I'm sure the pressure of possible litigation, or the possibility of career suicide would make most people turn coat. Mark is an established actor as friends of mine have pointed out and John has a lot more to lose.
As much as I disagree with George on a lot of his creative choices, I don't recall him having to speak with his actors if they spoke ill of his movies much less hearing about it in the news. Part of that may be due to social media not being in existence then, but I think that's only part of it. Often if those actors retracted what they said I'd imagine it was out of respect for their director and not because they were strong armed into publicly apologizing because they were in breach of contract.
This instance seems especially noteworthy because while Mark was tactful enough to couch his true thoughts in humor, John was very boldly speaking his mind in a very unapologetic way, which I really respect him for. Though I'm sure the pressure of possible litigation, or the possibility of career suicide would make most people turn coat. Mark is an established actor as friends of mine have pointed out and John has a lot more to lose.
cboath
Master Member
He has the right to say what he said, but i don't think the lack of development had anything to do with race. His complaint seems much more focused on RoS and they had to do major reworks of the script due to the polarization of TLJ AND the death of Carrie Fisher. The had zero desire to move the release date from December 2019 and basically had to figure out redo's and mea culpa's in relatively short order to have it all ready to go to start shooting in May/June. It's not surprising to me at all that stuff got left behind. The roles weren't written for or as people of color, they were just written as characters. They set up the two main characters of the ST and Rey and Ben. Finn and Poe were the next tier down, and Rose/Phasma/Hux the tier below that. How he can be shocked they focused on the two primary characters at the expense of the rest is a bit puzzling.
ThreadSketch
Well-Known Member
Because Finn was marketed as a red herring as far back as TFA. Huge posters depicting him with the lightsaber, teasing Finn as a potential Jedi...but it was Rey all along. (As if we had any doubts with all her pseudo-Skywalker styling.)
Even if Finn was meant to be a truly second-tier character instead of a deuteragonist, his arc was nothing but a slew of missed opportunities - in the end, there was no point whatsoever to him being a former stormtrooper. That tie went nowhere, and he wasn't even shown having any quandaries killing his fellow brainwashed soldiers or any desire to save and free more of them like himself - the single blip of anything remotely having to do with this possible subplot was cut as yet another deleted scene (when the troopers accompanying Phasma in TLJ hesitate as they realize Finn's identity and she shoots them all down). He might as well have been a completely random character, since almost all he was relegated to doing was being the slapstick comic relief and yelling after Rey.
ThreadSketch
Well-Known Member
Forgot to mention that JJ himself was the one who told John he was going to be "the new star of Star Wars." That heavily implies top or near-top billing, not mere sidekick or supporting character.
cboath
Master Member
Yeah, i believed their intent was to make a woman the feature player this time. Not saying that's right or wrong - just that was their intent. After seeing TFA, i fully thought the plan was a new trio....instead of Han, Luke, Leia who were equal stars it was going to be Rey, Finn, and Poe. TFA pretty much played out that way.
TLJ turned it more into Rey and Kylo with everyone else relegated a step or two down.
I'm not going to say he wasn't told that or that it wasn't the intent at the time, but it changed in TLJ for whatever reason. Hard to stick it back in for RoS with everything else they did there.
You just lose me with the argument that it was about race.
harrisonp
Sr Member
I’ll always die on the hill of Trevorrows outline having better beats for most of the characters than TROS did. If Palpatine wasn’t in TROS, and Poe/Finn are shown to have grown even closer off screen between TLJ and TROS with all their recruiting and amassing their forces I don’t think there would be as big of an issue. JJ tried to do that for about a fraction of a second but Finn is still in “shouts Rey” mode in the majority of TROS and that really sucks.
Well the marketing from Lucasfilm consistently made a point of how diverse the cast was, and the media ran with it, so it very well could have been a factor. Though I'm not going to delve too much further into that subject because it could be deemed political.
I'm more concerned with the fact that this seems to be a reoccurring theme when a cast member disagrees with Lucasfilm, they always get a visit or call from the higher ups. I suppose like everything else in the world it's all about "controlling the narrative." Wow do I hate that phrase, but it does seem to fit in this case.
I'm more concerned with the fact that this seems to be a reoccurring theme when a cast member disagrees with Lucasfilm, they always get a visit or call from the higher ups. I suppose like everything else in the world it's all about "controlling the narrative." Wow do I hate that phrase, but it does seem to fit in this case.
HeartBlade
Sr Member
As much as I don’t like playing the race card and agree it is just the characters weren’t developed properly, I do think John has a point “bring up race inequality” given how the ST was marketed.
Unlike OT and PT which were basically just Star Wars stories, Disney put a big spotlight on diversity. The black stormtrooper. The first female Star Wars villain. The first female Jedi. The First order being all white and alt right. The rebellion/resistance being diverse (although not really because very few aliens until RoS). Disney was definitely playing the race/gender card when trying to sell ST and essentially implied it would be better than Lucas’ “all white male main characters” line of stories.
Given that basis, you could say John is calling them out for their BS, that for all their fluff they really only gave the good parts to “white people” aka Ben and Rey. John was definitely a dual protagonist, at least in TFA given that the movie essentially kicks off with his defection and Finn is the “main character” alongside Rey. Finn does get shoved into the background as the “side character” to Rose and essentially stays there until the end of the series.
I do think Finn was wasted too and think the solution is very easy and “had been planned from the beginning,” kill off Poe. No hate for Oscar but Poe is what Finn should have been at the end of RoS. Fin essentially impersonates Poe to get to the rebel base. Have Finn have to keep up the charade and essentially have to be the “ace pilot” even though he is not.
Finn would then suffer from imposter syndrome in TLJ, get found out and possibly kicked out but redeems himself at the end to get back in. Finn then comes into his own as a capable commander and leads the charge in the final battle in RoS, going from helpless stormtrooper to leader of the resistance who crushed the First Order. Some personal antagonism with former boss Phasma/Hux/whoever would also sweeten the pot and character development.
Unlike OT and PT which were basically just Star Wars stories, Disney put a big spotlight on diversity. The black stormtrooper. The first female Star Wars villain. The first female Jedi. The First order being all white and alt right. The rebellion/resistance being diverse (although not really because very few aliens until RoS). Disney was definitely playing the race/gender card when trying to sell ST and essentially implied it would be better than Lucas’ “all white male main characters” line of stories.
Given that basis, you could say John is calling them out for their BS, that for all their fluff they really only gave the good parts to “white people” aka Ben and Rey. John was definitely a dual protagonist, at least in TFA given that the movie essentially kicks off with his defection and Finn is the “main character” alongside Rey. Finn does get shoved into the background as the “side character” to Rose and essentially stays there until the end of the series.
I do think Finn was wasted too and think the solution is very easy and “had been planned from the beginning,” kill off Poe. No hate for Oscar but Poe is what Finn should have been at the end of RoS. Fin essentially impersonates Poe to get to the rebel base. Have Finn have to keep up the charade and essentially have to be the “ace pilot” even though he is not.
Finn would then suffer from imposter syndrome in TLJ, get found out and possibly kicked out but redeems himself at the end to get back in. Finn then comes into his own as a capable commander and leads the charge in the final battle in RoS, going from helpless stormtrooper to leader of the resistance who crushed the First Order. Some personal antagonism with former boss Phasma/Hux/whoever would also sweeten the pot and character development.
robn1
Master Member
Leia is not male and Lando is not white. Lucas did it first and he did it better.
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