Lets talk all things Star Wars

[Psab keel]

I had no preconceived notions about what the story would be so it wasn't that my expectations weren't met, it's that they delivered a lackluster story that I couldn't get emotionally invested in and made little sense, even within its own setting. Blaming fans for terrible writing or directing doesn't recuse them for making a faulty product. It's the equivalent of a car manufacturer blaming consumers for a manufacturing defect.

I also don't subscribe to the idea that if it has a Star Wars logo on it that I have to like it in any capacity if the quality isn't there. Whether that's the movies, or the merchandise or both.

That said I really don't care if other fans enjoy it, but it gets pretty tiresome to hear about toxic fandom being the source of the problem when it's brand loyalty that is the bigger issue.

Either way, I'm glad you found aspects you enjoy and that you can watch them at all. I watched TFA maybe 4 times and it started to fall apart. I saw Rogue One once. I unfortunately saw The Last Jedi once, and I checked out after that and couldn't bring myself to see The Rise of Skywalker. The fact that you can watch them at all is mind boggling to me but it's not my place to tell you how to enjoy it. I'm glad you find some good in it.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

I saw Rogue One once

Love Rogue One. it comes in second to A New Hope and before The Empire Strikes Back. I know a lot of people put The Empire Strikes Back as their favorite but A New Hope was so life altering when I saw it in 1977 that no other movie will ever be like that for me again. But I still put Rogue One slightly ahead of The Empire Strikes Back. That’s how much I loved it.

 

[sztriki]

Why? I'd read most of them, and have, before I'd watch any of the Sequels over again. There are several series in there that make the Sequel writers look like amateur fanfic writers. (Zahn Trilogy, X-Wing series, Darth Bane trilogy, Republic Commando Series, etc.)

Whatever floats your boat really, I found pretty much everything flat and unimaginative pulp with either some generic plot where every character goes through the motions or some completely left-field idea where the writer tried to show off how creative they were. Most of what I read was the first option.

 

[Psab keel]

I just don't get what people see in Rogue One. It's certainly the best of the Disney Era Star Wars films but that's not saying much considering how low they set that bar.

The Vader scenes are fan service (in the best way) and the space battles looked great (albeit with zero emotional investment because we don't know any of the pilots). At least in ANH we'd followed Luke through the whole movie which had built up to that point so it was easy to be engaged in those scenes.

The rest was just meh for me. It wasn't awful but it wasn't all that memorable either. I did like how Cassian started to explore the moral ambiguity of war, and the idea that sometimes you have to do bad things for the right reasons. It was certainly an interesting idea and one that could have been taken further. Jyn was flat and cold to me. Her motivation seemed out of left field, going from bitter and uninterested in the Rebel cause to suddenly on board with it when her father used her nickname as the Death Star codes. It just felt so unnatural because it was using a plot device as a character motivation when those are two separate writing tools.

I barely remember the other characters to be honest. I did love the production design and the visuals really did capture the more stark environments we see in ANH, really mirroring the achievements made with ANH'S low budget. In that way it was a great success. To me the characters were the weakest aspect. Perhaps when they make the Cassian Andor TV series they can really explore those morally gray areas and that might make for some interesting story developments.

 

[RedheadKevin]

I just don't get what people see in Rogue One. It's certainly the best of the Disney Era Star Wars films but that's not saying much considering how low they set that bar.
The Vader scenes are fan service (in the best way) and the space battles looked great (albeit with zero emotional investment because we don't know any of the pilots). At least in ANH we'd followed Luke through the whole movie which had built up to that point so it was easy to be engaged in those scenes.
The rest was just meh for me. It wasn't awful but it wasn't all that memorable either. I did like how Cassian started to explore the moral ambiguity of war, and the idea that sometimes you have to do bad things for the right reasons. ...

Rogue One. It's fan service (in the best way) and the space battles looked great. The rest started to explore the moral ambiguity of war, and the idea that sometimes you have to do bad things for the right reasons.

Fixed that for you. Rogue One was a very well-funded official fan film. Made by fans, made for fans of Star Wars who wanted something with more mature themes, like moral ambiguity, and Star Wars pew pew space battles with modern VFX. The Vader scenes were pure fan service, that's true. But you're a liar if your theater didn't give a collective "oh $#!+... it's Vader! He's going to F $#!+up!" and then cheered when he did. Sometimes you gotta just enjoy the dessert.

 

[Psab keel]

I loved the Vader scenes, and thats why I said it was fan service in the best way. But that's all it was. Dessert. The aspects that worked, worked well, but it was merely fluff. Where it really counted, as in creating characters I actually cared about, it was flat.


Where Star Wars succeeded was that it almost seamlessly blended spectacular visuals and sound with an emotionally engaging story. I expect more from Lucasfilm because they own the property. If I want a fan film with cool visuals I can watch a million of those for free online. But I don't watch fan films for that reason. Most are just empty. Visually impressive but with no substance. The fact that Lucasfilm is now pumping out high budget fan films means that they have nothing of substance to add which suggests that story isn't important.

Now the Mandalorian, from what I've heard, is concerned with substance, so at least that gives me hope.

 

[RodanAZ]

I loved Rogue One because it was Star Wars for adults... no kid stuff, no fairytale endings. Hell, everyone dies... when was the last time hollywood had the stones to do that? To me, it's a just a great story about the Rebellion leading up to ANH, with the proper 'look' and feel and some great battles. It doesn't need to be anything more than that. I liked the fact that it tipped its hat to what had come before without getting into the "Skywalker Saga".

Also, if you remove the nostalgia lenses, ANH wasn't exactly oscar material in the writing department. Did Han really have any more character development than Cassian? ANH was very special, and will always be 'the original', and rightly so because of what it was, at the time it was made. That said, I think we are sometimes over critical of much of what came later because it can never live up to how ANH made us feel in that theater in 1977...

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

I loved the characters in R1. Even minor characters like General Merrick.

Not sure why Disney backed Star Wars films get hit with fluff or fan service. But the same people don't have issues with scenes like the dianoga in the trash compactor, TIE fighter attach after the escape from Deathstar, Swinging the trench, the Ponda Baba cantina scene. You could easily argue that you don't need these scenes but they add flavor to the movie and are iconic. You also have a very loud crowd of fans who want other cut scenes like the Biggs scenes inserted back into the movie even if they don't need to be there.

The same people are the ones who declare fan service but are also the same to cry, "They should have done ..." if it is not there. either way, they get to bitch about it. It's a no win.

 

[Psab keel]

I loved Rogue One because it was Star Wars for adults... no kid stuff, no fairytale endings. Hell, everyone dies... when was the last time hollywood had the stones to do that? To me, it's a just a great story about the Rebellion leading up to ANH, with the proper 'look' and feel and some great battles. It doesn't need to be anything more than that. I liked the fact that it tipped its hat to what had come before without getting into the "Skywalker Saga".

Also, if you remove the nostalgia lenses, ANH wasn't exactly oscar material in the writing department. Did Han really have any more character development than Cassian? ANH was very special, and will always be 'the original', and rightly so because of what it was, at the time it was made. That said, I think we are sometimes over critical of much of what came later because it can never live up to how ANH made us feel in that theater in 1977...

I too loved that they took the chance to try something outside the Skywalker Saga. I mean in all fairness Rogue One is certainly not the worst movie of the series and it has it's strengths, but I also don't think it's as great as other fans do. That's just my take on it.

I loved the characters in R1. Even minor characters like General Merrick.

Not sure why Disney backed Star Wars films get hit with fluff or fan service. But the same people don't have issues with scenes like the dianoga in the trash compactor, TIE fighter attach after the escape from Deathstar, Swinging the trench, the Ponda Baba cantina scene. You could easily argue that you don't need these scenes but they add flavor to the movie and are iconic. You also have a very loud crowd of fans who want other cut scenes like the Biggs scenes inserted back into the movie even if they don't need to be there.

The same people are the ones who declare fan service but are also the same to cry, "They should have done ..." if it is not there. either way, they get to bitch about it. It's a no win.

I'm for all the flash and spectacle. That's what makes Star Wars fun. My gripe is that aside from the few things I mentioned about Cassian, it had little in the way of characters I cared about, so for my money it wasn't as appealing to me and was more dessert than entree (if we are going to keep using the same analogy). If you read my earlier posts you'll see that I'm actually praising the film for it's fan service because it was done well, but to me that's all it was because I didn't care about anyone in it.

Again I'm going to reiterate that I'm judging it on it's own merits and trying my best to not even bring up the OT because this film should literally stand on it's own. The only reason I even brought up ANH was to applaud Rogue One for matching it's austerity in it's visuals to that original film.

Rogue One is the strongest by far of the new material. It just wasn't something I got invested in.

 

[cboath]

I also heard back from some tv interview around the time of Star Wars first network premiere that another concept was for a mother Wookiee trying to get her child to sleep, she pulls a book off the shelf and opens it up, and that is where you see “A long time ago...“ At the end of the award ceremony, she closes the book and puts her sleeping child to bed.

Ever since hearing that, I always imagined each movie existing as books on the shelf of some Wookiee child’s room.

Sounds like Princess Bride.

 

[cboath]

I don’t dislike it that much. It’s the weak link of Star Wars for sure. The lack of any type of pre-developed story across the trilogy is its ultimate downfall. On a personal note, I dislike the grim future of our original trilogy heroes. I would have wanted them to have happier futures but they all ended up miserable. However I try to get past that as I refuse to be like the toxic fan who dislikes something simply because it is not done the way you want it.

But I still enjoy watching them and find things in each movie that I enjoy. I try to embrace those moments and aspects.

The problem there, to me, is that they did it to ALL of the them. if you do it to one as a story point, i can see it maybe working, but screwing them all over so as not to overshadow the newbs? No.

 

[Joek3rr]

So it finally made it to the theater in my city! That was a blast!

I'd be curious which version of the film this is. I noticed that it opened with the 97 Lucasfilm logo.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

My son and I are going later today.

 

[sztriki]

Something just occured to me recently...about Phantom Menace.
So the Jedi get a bongo from the gungans and Boss Nass says the quickest way to the Naboo city is through the planet core. Now we all know this is just stupid, from the concept of a planet's core that's made of water to the impossibility of whizzing through a planet's core with the yellow submarine all the way to the fact that the only time the quickest way would be through the planet core is if they were going to the exact opposite point of the planet's surface. All those have been discussed before.
My niggling thing is why on earth did George Lucas include that line? Like what was the actual point of it? It's not that when he wrote the script he really did not stop for a second and think that it makes no sense. It's why even bother coming up with that line and adding it? It's not like some really neat visuals were included in the planet core or there was a real adventure regarding the core, they could have just said, take our crappy little submarine and sod off that way. Same exact thing. It's so damn weird...

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Something just occured to me recently...about Phantom Menace.
So the Jedi get a bongo from the gungans and Boss Nass says the quickest way to the Naboo city is through the planet core. Now we all know this is just stupid, from the concept of a planet's core that's made of water to the impossibility of whizzing through a planet's core with the yellow submarine all the way to the fact that the only time the quickest way would be through the planet core is if they were going to the exact opposite point of the planet's surface. All those have been discussed before.
My niggling thing is why on earth did George Lucas include that line? Like what was the actual point of it? It's not that when he wrote the script he really did not stop for a second and think that it makes no sense. It's why even bother coming up with that line and adding it? It's not like some really neat visuals were included in the planet core or there was a real adventure regarding the core, they could have just said, take our crappy little submarine and sod off that way. Same exact thing. It's so damn weird...

The core leads to other passageways. If they did not take the core, they would either have to travel to the nearest shoreline and then traverse over land, or for which they would then have to walk. Remember that the underwater city they were at was in a lake. So the only passage underwater that lead from there was probably from the core, or an offshoot that led to the core. Like going over a mountain instead of around it.. except downward instead of upward.

Naboo

Naboo was a bountiful planet in the Chommell sector of the Mid Rim, in the Trailing Sectors and close to the border of the Outer Rim Territories. It was home to the indigenous Gungan species and to a population of humans known as the Naboo. Naboo was pushed to the forefront of galactic politics...

starwars.fandom.com

Unlike most other worlds, the ancient planet lacked a molten core, and instead comprised a conglomerate of large, rocky bodies that made up a network of tunnels and flooded caves. The native Gungans, who built their homes in the waters of Naboo, rarely ventured into the core, fearing the ravenous sea beasts which resided[1] in areas such as the Caves of Eleuabad.[7] Despite this, certain Gungan navigators utilized time-honored trade routes through the planet's structure, which served as the most expedient avenues to reach other areas of the planet.[1]

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Something just occured to me recently...about Phantom Menace.
So the Jedi get a bongo from the gungans and Boss Nass says the quickest way to the Naboo city is through the planet core. Now we all know this is just stupid, from the concept of a planet's core that's made of water to the impossibility of whizzing through a planet's core with the yellow submarine all the way to the fact that the only time the quickest way would be through the planet core is if they were going to the exact opposite point of the planet's surface. All those have been discussed before.
My niggling thing is why on earth did George Lucas include that line? Like what was the actual point of it? It's not that when he wrote the script he really did not stop for a second and think that it makes no sense. It's why even bother coming up with that line and adding it? It's not like some really neat visuals were included in the planet core or there was a real adventure regarding the core, they could have just said, take our crappy little submarine and sod off that way. Same exact thing. It's so damn weird...

THAT is your problem with that sequence? Not repeatedly watching one fish getting eaten by a bigger fish? That really bugs me because it seemed really lazy to keep doing the same thing during the whole trip through there. Also it's not scifi, it's fantasy (didn't we just do that?) so it doesn't have to be a realistic planet in that way.

 

[robn1]

THAT is your problem with that sequence? Not repeatedly watching one fish getting eaten by a bigger fish? That really bugs me because it seemed really lazy to keep doing the same thing during the whole trip through there.

Well, there's always a bigger fish

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

THAT is your problem with that sequence? Not repeatedly watching one fish getting eaten by a bigger fish? That really bugs me because it seemed really lazy to keep doing the same thing during the whole trip through there. Also it's not scifi, it's fantasy (didn't we just do that?) so it doesn't have to be a realistic planet in that way.

I know people dislike Jar-Jar but I always liked him and he is hilarious in that scene.

 

[sztriki]

The core leads to other passageways. If they did not take the core, they would either have to travel to the nearest shoreline and then traverse over land, or for which they would then have to walk. Remember that the underwater city they were at was in a lake. So the only passage underwater that lead from there was probably from the core, or an offshoot that led to the core. Like going over a mountain instead of around it.. except downward instead of upward.

Naboo

Naboo was a bountiful planet in the Chommell sector of the Mid Rim, in the Trailing Sectors and close to the border of the Outer Rim Territories. It was home to the indigenous Gungan species and to a population of humans known as the Naboo. Naboo was pushed to the forefront of galactic politics...

starwars.fandom.com

No offense to you personally but this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

THAT is your problem with that sequence? Not repeatedly watching one fish getting eaten by a bigger fish? That really bugs me because it seemed really lazy to keep doing the same thing during the whole trip through there.

I don't disagree but it really does bother me why it even had to be mentioned.

Also it's not scifi, it's fantasy (didn't we just do that?) so it doesn't have to be a realistic planet in that way.

No, that's not a get-out-of-jail free card. It's simple basic maths about two sides of a triangle being longer than the third side.

 

[Laspector]

Who here remembers back when, before TESB came out, there was this phone number you could call which actually had the actors doing this little promo of the movie? Seems like it was a minute or two long and I seem to recall it cost a couple bucks to call it. I remember calling it several times although it was just the same recording over and over, yet it was all we had back then. I think the number was advertised in Starlog.

All I can recall of the thing was that at one point Harrison Ford says "I don't know what's going to happen when-- The Empire Strikes Back!"

My interesting side note to the story was that my Mom saw the number on the phone bill and asked me if I was calling "sex numbers". I told her it was a Star Wars thing and she okayed it.......That gave me a great idea! I began calling real "sex numbers" and just telling my folks it was Star Wars stuff! As long as I kept them under 2 or 3 minutes, they never questioned me again. They knew how much I loved Star Wars....LOL!