Lets talk all things Star Wars
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Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
And that’s fine. My point is that using another term in its place does not make it wrong... or rape their childhood.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Although I was replying to you, the overall statement addresses the topic in it’s entirety and the various preceding posts and general tone of similar discussion throughout this thread.
So give your ego a rest, it’s not always about you.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Oh please.
Please... accept your apology?
Sure, thanks for being the bigger man. I accept.
TO EVERYONE,
Let’s move on to Parsecs. Anyone still have that as an issue? Do we need to address it are has everyone come to terms with it?
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Just be ready for the others to complain about how you should have said automobile instead of car.
So everyone is good with Parsecs now? We are all happy as a group how everything was resolved?
So everyone is good with Parsecs now? We are all happy as a group how everything was resolved?
This reminds me of these 2 guys in the 80s who wrote a whole book about how the "science" of Star Wars was all wrong. They talked about the parsec thing, how a lightsaber could never exist, and how a space fighter had no need for wings. Even as a kid I knew they were just trying to capitalize on Star Wars by being a couple of pedants.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Question for everyone here who has groomed facial hair (as opposed to just letting your facial grow without any trimming)...
Would you still have your facial hair even if you had to wear a helmet and no one else would ever see your face?
Would you still have your facial hair even if you had to wear a helmet and no one else would ever see your face?
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
You know, the more I think about this, the more I wish they would have done this. This way the movies are not looked at as historical accurate document of a long ago galactic war, but instead as a fantasy story told to entertain. Maybe even In a galaxy far away, this story is also fantasy fiction to them as well. Like a Wookiee version of LOTR. Maybe I am not in the discussions but I don’t remember seeing many people rag on story elements of Princess Bride because they accept the story being told as fantasy by a grandpa to his grandson. You don’t hear people call Miracle Max’s pill lazy writing. Well maybe you do as there are haters for everything but in general fans just sit back and enjoy the story.
Wait, was that meant to be simply an homage? I took Luke saying "laser sword" as his way of mocking the belief that a Jedi knight can stand down an entire enemy force so he refers to the lightsaber in a layman's term to reinforce how absurd he thinks it is. I actually think that was good dialogue in the context of a jaded Luke. If it was meant to be serious, then it makes less sense for him to call it that.
I could roll with just saying "gun" or even "sword" but calling it "laser _____" sounds too rudimentary for such an advanced universe. Of course it would make sense for a child (like Ani) or perhaps a primitive to refer to it that way but I can't see Luke or Han or most characters saying it non sarcastically.
Edit: Just to add, I'm aware of GL originally calling lightsabers "laser swords" and how it's meant to be an homage when they're referred to that way in newer material. TLJ seemed like more than just an homage though.
"Laser gun" would be a more apt equivalent.
I could roll with just saying "gun" or even "sword" but calling it "laser _____" sounds too rudimentary for such an advanced universe. Of course it would make sense for a child (like Ani) or perhaps a primitive to refer to it that way but I can't see Luke or Han or most characters saying it non sarcastically.
Edit: Just to add, I'm aware of GL originally calling lightsabers "laser swords" and how it's meant to be an homage when they're referred to that way in newer material. TLJ seemed like more than just an homage though.
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Funny how you claimed I needed to give my ego a rest and yet you quoted your own post. I just find that ironic.
Anyway. To address your point...
The reason why no one questions the Princess Bride (or other great movies for that matter) is because it's well written and consistent. Star Wars by contrast is wildly inconsistent, especially between trilogies. They say the more outlandish the elements of a fantasy story are, the more grounded in reality the characters have to be in order for an audience to suspend their disbelief enough to become emotionally invested in the story. The same principle applies to character and plot consistency. Perhaps you can dismiss an element in the story as being a non issue whereas another person can't get past it. I don't think it's helpful to just tell someone to move on and enjoy it anyway when they can't.
We can all be pedantic about this franchise in particular (I'd like to think I have enough self awareness to admit I can be this way too so I'm not excluding myself from that criticism) but I think it's equally important to discuss what doesn't work as much as what does. Otherwise the discussion becomes stagnant. You may think I'm being negative all the time but I just think it's a more honest approach than to blindly accept things just because I love this series. I may love it but acting like everything is perfect is kind of absurd.
Anyway. To address your point...
The reason why no one questions the Princess Bride (or other great movies for that matter) is because it's well written and consistent. Star Wars by contrast is wildly inconsistent, especially between trilogies. They say the more outlandish the elements of a fantasy story are, the more grounded in reality the characters have to be in order for an audience to suspend their disbelief enough to become emotionally invested in the story. The same principle applies to character and plot consistency. Perhaps you can dismiss an element in the story as being a non issue whereas another person can't get past it. I don't think it's helpful to just tell someone to move on and enjoy it anyway when they can't.
We can all be pedantic about this franchise in particular (I'd like to think I have enough self awareness to admit I can be this way too so I'm not excluding myself from that criticism) but I think it's equally important to discuss what doesn't work as much as what does. Otherwise the discussion becomes stagnant. You may think I'm being negative all the time but I just think it's a more honest approach than to blindly accept things just because I love this series. I may love it but acting like everything is perfect is kind of absurd.
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Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Funny how you claimed I needed to give my ego a rest and yet you quoted your own post. I just find that ironic.
Anyway. To address your point...
The reason why no one questions the Princess Bride (or other great movies for that matter) is because it's well written and consistent. Star Wars by contrast is wildly inconsistent, especially between trilogies. They say the more outlandish the elements of a fantasy story are, the more grounded in reality the characters have to be in order for an audience to suspend their disbelief enough to be able to become emotionally invested in the story. The same principle applies to character and plot consistency. Perhaps you can dismiss an element in the story as being a non issue whereas another person can't get past it. I don't think it's helpful to just tell someone to move on and enjoy it anyway when they can't.
We can all be pedantic about this franchise in particular (I'd like to think I have enough self awareness to admit I can be this way too so I'm not excluding myself from that criticism) but I think it's equally important to discuss what doesn't work as much as what does. Otherwise the discussion becomes stagnant. You may think I'm being negative all the time but I just think it's a more honest approach than to blindly accept things just because I love this series. I may love it but acting like everything is perfect is kind of absurd.
I quoted myself because it was several pages ago. What did you want me to do? Say go back and that thing I said about... excuse me for making it easier for the reader. But then you knew that. You just wanted another reason to talk about yourself again and you wanted to take a poke at me but you really couldn’t come up with anything clever. Well at least I’m clever enough to post a large eye roll emoji....
At least you finally written a post about Star Wars.
Most of the time people say something in Star Wars is lazy writing is because the story or story elements are something new and unusual to the viewer. But instead of hearing the explanation and saying... hmm, ok. That’s a new concept for me to understand. They instead refuse the new information because their egos are too fragile to accept that they are not the all knowing Star Wars fan they thought they were. And if they could not figure it out for themselves, then it is stupid and lazy.
Sorry I forgot to genuflect at your brilliance. You can claim I'm arrogant all you want but expressing an opinion you don't agree with isn't arrogance. It's an opinion. Nothing more.
So you're implying that some fans are unwilling to accept anything new because they are egomaniacs who need to be experts at Star Wars. Or perhaps the explanation is simpler than that. Maybe the idea doesn't fit what had previously been established because while the idea itself isn't bad, it's just not a good fit for this particular story. Expressing that idea isn't akin to arrogance or the need to be wunderkinds of a fictional world.
You can claim I'm arrogant all you want but expressing an opinion you don't agree with isn't arrogance. It's an opinion. Nothing more.So you're implying that some fans are unwilling to accept anything new because they are egomaniacs who need to be experts at Star Wars. Or perhaps the explanation is simpler than that. Maybe the idea doesn't fit what had previously been established because while the idea itself isn't bad, it's just not a good fit for this particular story. Expressing that idea isn't akin to arrogance or the need to be wunderkinds of a fictional world.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
No I was not implying it. I was saying it outright.
That’s my opinion. Which I am told I am allowed to have.
But that to has been a common theme and still based on what I said. A lot of time this “previously established” material was based on assumptions. Example. We saw x-wings in A New Hope and then a-wings in Return of the Jedi. Therefore a lot of fans made the assumption that a-wings were newer than x-wings. When Rebels showed a-wings being used, they freaked. But it just a matter of what fans saw first. It’s like a person never saw an airplane before. They stick him on a aircraft carrier and he sees an F-35. A few years later, that person goes to an Air Force base and sees a F-16. Just because he saw the F-35 first, does not mean F-16 never existed before F-35s.
Most of what I see here is not that new info does not fit into the old info, instead the viewer has falsely assumed what the old information was or have a narrow vision of the information to which they were exposed.
Look at the example of Vader being Luke's father. It pushed the story into totally new territory and was a plot twist that was universally loved and blew everyone's minds despite going in a direction no one expected. Talk about truly subverting expectations! Now we all know that originally Vader and Luke's father were supposed to be different characters and despite this change with Empire Strikes Back, those knowing comments and glances between Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen, as well as Ben Kenobi's hesitation ended up reading totally different once this revelation was exposed to Luke and thus the audience.
The point is that you can make changes that drastically alter the story but still do it in a way that serves the story best. I've read some incredibly innovative ideas from fans about the content of the saga films and each one of them was vastly different from each other and yet still honoring the past well enough to feel like a natural continuation of the story. So for me, it was possible to do and still be fresh but I don't feel that the official films as of late have done as good a job of that. There's nothing inherently wrong with pointing that out either.
So I would argue that while some fans might not be open to any changes, perhaps you're being too narrow in your view that all fans who dislike the new material are like that. It's hard for people to wrap their heads around outright contradictions if they are too glaring or if crucial information is missing from the script.
Again just because things ended up one way, doesn't mean it was the only way the story could have been written. That's really the core of my entire stance on this issue with the series.
The point is that you can make changes that drastically alter the story but still do it in a way that serves the story best. I've read some incredibly innovative ideas from fans about the content of the saga films and each one of them was vastly different from each other and yet still honoring the past well enough to feel like a natural continuation of the story. So for me, it was possible to do and still be fresh but I don't feel that the official films as of late have done as good a job of that. There's nothing inherently wrong with pointing that out either.
So I would argue that while some fans might not be open to any changes, perhaps you're being too narrow in your view that all fans who dislike the new material are like that. It's hard for people to wrap their heads around outright contradictions if they are too glaring or if crucial information is missing from the script.
Again just because things ended up one way, doesn't mean it was the only way the story could have been written. That's really the core of my entire stance on this issue with the series.
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