Lets talk all things Star Wars
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
The cover is a spoof of a spider-man cover.
Yeah I agree, but Lucas, like you said, had an outline for where he wanted to go and then filled in the details. With the Sequels it just feels like there were too many hands in the cookie jar and they were making it up as they went along. Lucas did have a lot of people helping flesh it out, but he was still at the reins to make it cohesive. I didn't get that feeling watching the first two Sequels (won't watch the third).
patrickivan
Sr Member
Well first, you would have to ask if Star Wars is really sci-fi. And it may not be sci-fi for the reason you cited.
One of the more traditional definitions goes like this:
sci·ence fic·tion/ˈsīəns ˈˌfikSHən/nounnoun: science fiction; noun: SF; modifier noun: science-fictionfiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets.We know that the future is not involved, because it is a "Long time ago...." But that doesn't mean it can't be sci-fi. So let's look at the second criteria.
The next part is about social and technological change and its effect on society or sometimes stated as the human condition. Since the characters involved in the story are separate from our society. And the technology not the driving story in Star Wars, it simply more of a visual element.
Here is a good read:
Why Star Wars is not science fiction, and related matters…
“Science Fiction is something that could happen – but usually you wouldn’t want it to. Fantasy is something that couldn’t happen, though often you only wish that it could.” – Arthur C C…simondillonbooks.wordpress.com
Some quotes.
“Science Fiction is something that could happen – but usually you wouldn’t want it to. Fantasy is something that couldn’thappen, though often you only wish that it could.” – Arthur C Clarke.
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I can't believe anyone with a spec of actively firing brain activity could ever have considered anything about Star Wars to be within the Fantasy genre.
The second people take a Fantasy like Star Wars and try to apply real-world science and physics to it, everything falls apart. It stops being fun.
I really hate those shows that actually try to analyse the technology in Star Wars. It's just a set up for disappointment.
Bigdaddy
Master Member
Sometimes it can be two things, there are definitely sci-fi elements in Star Wars, it's not completely in either genre. I think that's one of the things that made it so unique in 77.
It's fiction, the settings and story rely heavily on on tech, it's not a stretch to call it sci-fi.
It's fiction, the settings and story rely heavily on on tech, it's not a stretch to call it sci-fi.
I'll say yes, it's the first. I'm not sure about what's been done since then.
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Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
That doesn't fit into the true definition of science fiction. But that is the problem, a lot of people do not understand the true definition. They simply think if you have a spaceship or and alien, it must be sci-fi.
Let's say I write a crime novel about an astronaut in the early 70's or even in the very near future. He kills his wife, sneaks the murder weapon on his rocket and then the lunar lander, and buries it on the moon. However most of the story deals with events leading to the murder and the investigation and solving the crime.
This story has a spaceship which we would agree is technology, and a setting which is not on Earth (in space) and is fiction (not a true story). This is not Science Fiction.
Bigdaddy
Master Member
I completely understand your point, I just disagree. As I said in the post you quoted, I don't believe it's that easy to put a genre on the original film.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
And that's where I disagree, I think once you know the definition of what Science Fiction is, it is easy to place it as a Fantasy film.
It reminds me a lot of Fruit vs Vegetable. So many people believe that things like tomatoes, okra, and pumpkins are vegetables because that is what they been told or they just do not seem like what you understand to be a fruit. But once you know the definition of what a fruit is, you can properly place those as a fruit.
Maybe it would be better defined as a Space Adventure movie because the premise isn't based in any scientific principle the way a straight Sci-fi would be. Though it uses the trappings and exotic locales of outer space mixed with fantasy elements to create a romanticized adventure.
Guardians of the Galaxy or Krull or Masters of the Universe would also fall under that umbrella. Though perhaps Space Adventure, Space Opera, or Space Fantasy are really more subgenres under the larger genre of Sci-Fi. I don't take too much stock in people categorizing Star Wars under Sci-Fi. It's really only die hard fans like us that care about that kind of thing.
Guardians of the Galaxy or Krull or Masters of the Universe would also fall under that umbrella. Though perhaps Space Adventure, Space Opera, or Space Fantasy are really more subgenres under the larger genre of Sci-Fi. I don't take too much stock in people categorizing Star Wars under Sci-Fi. It's really only die hard fans like us that care about that kind of thing.
CT1138
Sr Member
I think the unique thing about Star Wars is that it takes little bits from just about every genre there is except musicals and horror. The romance is important to the story, but it also contains elements of science fiction (certainly the PT with its expository moments the most), classical fantasy (ANH and ESB has strong analogues to Arthurian legendarium), Italian mafia movies and western outlaws (the Hutts, pretty much all of Solo: A Star Wars Story, Tatooine), war movies (the original dog fights are shot for shot recreations of original WWII dog fights), and not to mention the historical and contemporary political commentary the movies and cartoons have and the dry wit and soap opera style dialogue.
Star Wars is, at its heart, an operatic sci-fi space-western romance war fantasy with touches of historical mafioso soap drama.
Star Wars is, at its heart, an operatic sci-fi space-western romance war fantasy with touches of historical mafioso soap drama.
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Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
While all that is true, influences does not determine genre.
Unless we are doing some in depth comparison of Trek to Wars (or the like- which has proven to be fruitless because you're analyzing different types of criteria for story telling) then aren't we being a bit pedantic about this? Does it really matter all that much what genre or subgenre this fits under?
Star Wars fits under the genre of "awesome". I think we can all agree on that.
Star Wars fits under the genre of "awesome". I think we can all agree on that.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Because the title of this thread is called, “Lets talk all things Star Wars” and that is what I chose to talk about. Don’t blame me if others felt it was more worthy of discussion than your question.
Additionally, I did not ignore it. I had been trying to research to find an answer for you. What do you want? A hundred people replying “no, or I don’t know”?
sztriki
Sr Member
Dune had no connection to Earth although kt was mentioned that people who believe humanity originated from a single planet were a small minority and were considered odd. I seem to remember however that the appendix section does mention how the religion and space travel originated from Earth. Gotta check when I get home.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
If you are sticking to the original question, he asks about movies prior to Star Wars. Dune existed prior to Star Wars as a story, but not as a movie.
But if we want to continue with Dune, I found this...
How Does Earth Fit In With the Rest of the Galaxy in Dune?
By the time of Paul Atreides, many planets are inhabited and the galaxy is ruled from somewhere other than Earth. Is Earth still habitable? If so, what kind of place does it have in the galaxy at...
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