The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 12)

Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

Sorry for being off-topic, but I stumbled upon this pic in my backup folder and I thought it (at least roughly) fit into context. Too many people don't know how to handle books, I think this should be included with every proper book sold. (I really dislike perfect binding, and don't consider it to be "real books")

howto.jpg
 
Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

@Saavik256: Thanks for sharing. It's good advice, and I agree with you. I actually break in each book myself before sending it off to its new owner, because often the advice you posted is either unknown to the owner or not practiced.

Cheers!
 
Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

Found this on my HD, not sure what it's from, but it provides a few more details:

No detail was spared in ensuring that the volume The Nine Gates, the physical prop, appear as genuine as possible. Polanski knew what he wanted the engravings to look like, but finding the right person to create them was another matter. "I wanted illustrations that would look like authentic woodcuts or copper etchings of the period. And we just couldnít get it." Then Polanski thought to approach Francisco SolÈ, who illustrated the Spanish and French editions of El Club Dumas. "I met him at the airport while scouting locations and explained to him what I wanted; he sent me a sample, and it was absolutely great. Then we worked over the telephone. I was shooting in the daytime and talking to him at night; I'd fax him sketches and he'd fax back the illustrations. They complete the book."

He continued, "When you take it in your hand, it looks like an antique book: the paper and the color of the paper, the print and the grain. It doesn't look like a prop."


-MJ
 
Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

Found this on my HD, not sure what it's from, but it provides a few more details:

Hi, Mike.

Thanks for sharing that. Looks like Rogue428 beat you to it on page 5.

Polanski is addressing the paper only, and unfortunately does not say anything about the binding itself.

Having seen the photos of the reproduction done by the original binder (also on page 5, I believe), I had all my questions answered, most notably the sewing method --

it was sewn on three cloth tapes then given a hollow back with false raised bands, a practice not done until the 19th C. and never seen prior to that (Bernard Middleton, my mentor's mentor, confirms this in A History of English Craft Bookbinding Technique, 1978. You can see the tapes in the fifth photo with the cover open. The corners were snipped off in keeping with the 19th C. practice instead of being neatly pared and tucked in, and the endbands are simply glued on.

While Polanski concentrated so much on the authenticity of the pages and engravings, which was masterfully achieved, little attention was paid to the authenticity of the binding. In many ways it's understandable. They probably had neither the time nor the budget, especially after the cost of all that paper. Paper is the most expensive component of books, so it seems plausible to me that they felt they had gotten what they needed for film purposes and left it at that. There's no reason whatsoever to have an historically correct binding for a film. But that's why it teased me. ;)
 
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Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

Looks like we were typing at the same time.

I'm well, thank you, but busy busy. I've got four orders of Nine Gates to fulfill (one was shipped off last week), plus everything else. Busy in a good way. Yourself?
 
Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

Looking at this, I'm speechless. I'm literally without speech.

Definitely a personal masterpiece, I'd say! Fantastic work, and I can't wait to follow your future projects!
 
Sorry for being off-topic, but I stumbled upon this pic in my backup folder and I thought it (at least roughly) fit into context. Too many people don't know how to handle books, I think this should be included with every proper book sold. (I really dislike perfect binding, and don't consider it to be "real books")

howto.jpg


+1 to this nothing worse than having a ruined book :( makes me sad.
 
Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

Ever had a finger snapping page turner? :angry turns each page by lifting the page partway between thumb and forefinger then snaps the fingers to make the page flip the rest of the way, leaving a crinkle spot at the bottom of each page :angry :angry Stopped showing any new books to my miscreant.

When a spine is broken, as described above, what physically is happening with the book?

There's a very nice prop "old" book in Hellboy 2: The Golden Army.
 
Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

Ever had a finger snapping page turner? turns each page by lifting the page partway between thumb and forefinger then snaps the fingers to make the page flip the rest of the way, leaving a crinkle spot at the bottom of each page

My father does this, despite numerous reprimands from his youngest. :unsure But, he's at that age where he can pretty much do as he pleases. If I saw someone do that in an institutional setting with a rare book, however... :angry

When a spine is broken, as described above, what physically is happening with the book?

By the time a book has its cover boards laced on or otherwise attached, it is, through a combination of paste/adhesive, sewing, reinforcement (mull, muslin, etc.) and so on, a solid block of paper. The fore edge (pages) are all separate and function normally, but the spine feels as it if were one solid object.

When a spine is broken, it basically means the book is broken into two halves, the break extending to the sewing (which has snapped) and sections becoming detached from one another. This damage comes from carelessness on the part of the user or because the book is so old that the sewing has corroded, snapped, and the glue on the spine has completely dried out and become brittle. Or, the binder didn't know what he/she was doing. Books (hand-bound) should always be opened gently and never forced to flatten out.

When the sewing goes, the book is done for unless someone re-sews it.

Sometimes sections (aka signatures) will be detached but the sewing will remain intact, which means that the binder sewed the book too loosely, or didn't round the spine, and in either case it would've needed rebinding anyway even if the spine hadn't broken. That is, if you want the book to last more than 60 years with light use. (Bookbinders tend to think of books having a lifespan of hundreds of years.)

There's a lot of tension on the sewing thread, and it helps to keep the spine intact and the whole book functioning as it should. This is the whole reason behind rounding the spine -- to distribute the tension so that the book opens freely and is usable, but not to eliminate the tension. It's a necessary physical component, and is the most important part of construction. If you ever see a book with broken sewing, a thread sticking up between pages, an alarm should go off. Unfortunately modern books have taught us to judge a book by its cover. :confused We must remember that this craft has gone through centuries of refinement.

Snapped sewing and/or detached sections means that the book is going to have a very short life, and is immediately disabled. The fore edge will protrude or become deformed quickly, pages will begin to loosen and fall out, and the broken areas allow for dust and promotion of mildew, and many other things, that will turn that book into something useless very quickly.

Inside covers becoming detached is often confused with a broken spine, when in actuality it is an easily corrected ailment not related to the spine at all.

The sewing is pretty much the spine. Just as in a human being, if the spine malfunctions or fails, it's a big issue.
 
Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

Thanks for the info. I've seen many books with those symptoms. So many people don't get it :wacko

I hope you don't mind the questions, I could look stuff up on Google but this more fun. I've got a little old school book that is falling apart (I sometimes use the pieces as a basis for art) but what is neat about it is the edges of the pages have a cool marbled pattern. How (without giving away trade secrets) was that done without the liquid colorants soaking into and marring the pages? I've occasionally marbled flat sheets of paper.
 
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Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

I've got a little old school book that is falling apart (I sometimes use the pieces as a basis for art) but what is neat about it is the edges of the pages have a cool marbled pattern. How (without giving away trade secrets) was that done without the liquid colorants soaking into and marring the pages?

Once the edges are are trimmed smooth, the entire block is clamped tight between protector boards, and the edges slightly burnished. If you were to open the book afterward some page edges would stick to each other. The clamped block edge is lowered into the marbling solution then drawn out, one edge at a time, and allowed to dry. Voila. (The original purpose of this practice was for record books, so that one could tell easily if a page or pages had been removed.)
 
Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

Just got through reading The Club Dumas. Man, what a letdown.
 
Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

Just got through reading The Club Dumas. Man, what a letdown.

Yes, even though Polanski's film is only loosely based on it, I liked the film better. Though, there were some very enjoyable parts of the book.
 
Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

I'm getting really anxious to hold one of these books in my hands!
The wait is killing me here....:wacko:cry
 
Re: The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 7)

Did you actually order one yet, Brenton? I definitely want to order one too, but my funds don't allow it right now... :(
 
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