The Nine Gates - NEW PHOTOS (page 12)

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Flattery

Well-Known Member
Hello, folks.

I'm now ready to pursue a replica of The Nine Gates, and being a bookbinder, I'm quite ready for it. The only thing I need is a set of the woodcuts.

I have the set located here: The Nine Gates to the Kingdom of Shadows Tutorial « APOCalyptic PRODuctions

What I'm missing are the varied woodcuts, and a good image (print quality) of the genuine 9th engraving, along with the forged LCF version.

Does anyone have these available and would be willing to help?

I plan to bind the book properly, with laced-in covers, period-accurate paper, etc. Now that I'm in between large projects in the shop, I have the spare time within the next couple of months to work on this, and would like to get started as soon as possible.

Thanks,
~F.
 
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Rogue428

New Member
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

Shoot me an email. My site is ApocProd. I'll hook you up. Sending you a PM.
 

Flattery

Well-Known Member
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

Thanks for the quick assistance, Rogue -- email sent!

Here's a test print that I did yesterday (not full black) to see how well the paper would match the period. Looking good so far. It's 98% pima cotton with 2% cotton rag content, a recipe I found in a book containing 17th. C. binding formulas. I'm more of an 18th and 19th C. bookbinder, by 17th isn't too far off for me to handle.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

You may notice that the text and woodcut are offset in their placement toward the outer margins of the paper. This is because some of the white space in the middle of the folded section will be absorbed into the "gutter" created by rounding and backing the spine in the classical fashion.

It will take me a while to get the pages printed (I"ll be typesetting them in InDesign and printing each leaf individually to get best results), but once that's done, I'll be posting progress photos of the binding. It will be a traditional "fastback" binding, meaning that the leather will be adhered onto the bands on which the pages are sewn (laced into covers), and directly onto the edges of the folded sections. However, the sewing style used will be period accurate and will allow for flexibility so that the book will lay flat.

Cheers!
F.
 

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Clutch

Master Member
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

Looks good! Any ideas about which version of the book you will do?
 

Flattery

Well-Known Member
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

@Clutch: I can immediately work on the Tefler/Balkan copy. All the woodcuts I have match that particular book.

However, if I can get all variations in the woodcuts, plus either the forged or genuine 9th engraving (preferably both -- the genuine one I've scoured for and turned up nothing useful), I'd like to bind all three copies. It will take some time, though, to crank those out. Each book requires about 7 days from beginning the folding of the sections to final pressing. Classical work is certainly not for the timid, but I've spent years learning the craft with some regular help from my mentor, M. Chrisman.

Here's an example of what I mean by classical or traditional:



That's a first edition of The Silmarillion that I bound in 18th C. style by request. The dyes are all natural, contain no harsh chemicals or alcohol and won't corrode.

With some luck and help, I could get all three copies bound properly.
 

Flattery

Well-Known Member
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

Thanks, folks -- I appreciate that. It takes a long time to get to that level of binding and using gold leaf.

I'll be binding this copy of the Nine Gates in the same manner, just black with no gold except for the pentacle in the center (which will be in 22k gold leaf). The book won't need any maintenance except minor touchups every 100 years or so and should last in good condition for at least 200 years. You can't beat the old methods. :)
 

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Flattery

Well-Known Member
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

With very special thanks and gratitude to Rogue428, I now have all the components I need to begin this project.

The paper I've chosen and number of text pages required works out perfectly -- cotton/rag paper just as Torchia would have used, and the dimensions of the book will be exactly to specifications (height, width and thickness).

Here's a test of a pentacle tooling I performed today. I've got to make sure I can tool the final portion before I begin, right? ;)



The tools I used on the left are dated 1766, oddly enough. Most of my tools are antique, which will give the finished product an authentic look.

I freestyled that pentacle based on a reference drawing. It's exactly to size to match the film prop. I tooled on a scrap of calf leather (the tools weren't heated, but they will be when I use them again) which is the same skin I'll be using to cover the book. Don't worry -- it'll be colored black, permanently.

It will take me longer to typeset and print the signatures than it will for me to bind these volumes. Once I'm ready to begin the binding process, I'll post photos as I go along. I estimate I'm about a week and a half to two weeks away from beginning the binding.

Cheers!
 

mrsmartypants

Well-Known Member
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

With very special thanks and gratitude to Rogue428, I now have all the components I need to begin this project.

The paper I've chosen and number of text pages required works out perfectly -- cotton/rag paper just as Torchia would have used, and the dimensions of the book will be exactly to specifications (height, width and thickness).

Here's a test of a pentacle tooling I performed today. I've got to make sure I can tool the final portion before I begin, right? ;)



The tools I used on the left are dated 1766, oddly enough. Most of my tools are antique, which will give the finished product an authentic look.

I freestyled that pentacle based on a reference drawing. It's exactly to size to match the film prop. I tooled on a scrap of calf leather (the tools weren't heated, but they will be when I use them again) which is the same skin I'll be using to cover the book. Don't worry -- it'll be colored black, permanently.

It will take me longer to typeset and print the signatures than it will for me to bind these volumes. Once I'm ready to begin the binding process, I'll post photos as I go along. I estimate I'm about a week and a half to two weeks away from beginning the binding.

Cheers!
Really enjoying this thread! One question: isn't the cover more of a brown than black?
 

VilleLeskinen

Sr Member
Community Staff
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

Sure is. Looking forward to this. Now if only I had gone to the bookbinding classes...
 

Flattery

Well-Known Member
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

Really enjoying this thread! One question: isn't the cover more of a brown than black?
The original prop(s) was bound in black sheepskin.



I can tell you, after having worked with TONS of different leathers, any modern aniline dyed brown skin would show as brown in that flash.

From what I can tell, some of the props (there were several with differently formatted title plates) were likely aged by adding brown dye to the worn areas on some of the props, but after examining the film in detail, it appears they left the master prop's worn areas as the grey undercoat of the sheepskin -- which is often the undercoat of poor quality skins. (Not the binder's fault, really. He/she was probably asked to bind the book very, very cheaply.)

The prop that we all fell in love with is actually a "case" binding, meaning that the leather case was prepared and covered with leather independently of the text, then the endsheets pasted into the case. Those bands on the spine are false, likely strips of leather instead of the cord that the pages would have been sewn on and laced into the cover boards.

Also, the bands, you'll notice, are equally spaced from the top (head) and bottom (tail) of the book. The practice at the time the book would've been bound was to offset the bands so that the tail panel was larger than the head panel -- sort of like how a framer makes the bottom portion of a mat taller so as to satisfy the optical illusion of them looking off center. More books were stored upright on shelves in 1666, so Torchia -- being a master bookbinder -- would have offset the bands. He could have intentionally made them equally spaced, but judging from my studies, bookbinders at the time would have considered that very inappropriate and distasteful. The bands would have been equally spaced a century prior.

I intend to bind my copies as Torchia would have done, much like this Master Bookbinder's version: http://nonus-porta.blogspot.com/

He is a Master, I am not. But, the purpose of binding it in the more authentic and true style is not just for kicks or to showcase binding skills, but so that the book will last -- for a long time.

Sure is. Looking forward to this. Now if only I had gone to the bookbinding classes...
Me too!

Classes would certainly help, but I find that they're just not comprehensive enough for this kind of binding. It requires a lot (and I mean a lot) of practice. But, anyone can do it so long as they have patience. It's not as mysterious as many make it out to be.
 
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Flattery

Well-Known Member
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

A couple of test prints to make sure the resolution is good and the paper is taking the ink appropriately.

Note: the paper will not be as yellow as it appears under the flash in the finished product.




 

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Flattery

Well-Known Member
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

I'll be keeping everything about the book pristine. Maybe a few paper wrinkles here and there. Artificially aging a book like this worries me about long-term effects. Best to let it get worn naturally. :) Coffee and tea staining just isn't a good idea, as the corrosive elements will take their toll on the material sooner than one would like. This is mainly because I'm using materials that match the period as much as I'm able.
 

VilleLeskinen

Sr Member
Community Staff
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

I find it somewhat funny that your not making the book screen accurate but period accurate seeing that the pentagram in the cover is no way period accurate. It's of course your book but still. I'm sure it'll be great either way :)
 

mrsmartypants

Well-Known Member
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

I find it somewhat funny that your not making the book screen accurate but period accurate seeing that the pentagram in the cover is no way period accurate. It's of course your book but still. I'm sure it'll be great either way :)
:confused
How is the pentagram not period accurate? Its origins date back to Sumeria in 3000 B.C. Therefore, it would be accurate to use it from that point forward, no?
 

mrsmartypants

Well-Known Member
Re: The Nine Gates Engravings/Woodcuts

The original prop(s) was bound in black sheepskin.



I can tell you, after having worked with TONS of different leathers, any modern aniline dyed brown skin would show as brown in that flash.
I have to respectively disagree. I'm fairly certain the cover is brown, not black.

Screen used version of the book as posted earlier:




Screen grab of book from the film:



Clearly brown in these images. I'll have to pull out the DVD and examine the book(s) more closely.
 

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