Magic of Myth ( MoM ) Luke RotJ Hero ( cave build ) lightsaber research, images, reference, & collaborative model builder's discussion.

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thd9791

Master Member
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I thought the red wires might be going to different parts of the snap switch, being on the side and top of one laying down

I did notice that the thickness of a board blocks out most of the arrow's when you put the components on their own board.
 

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v312

Well-Known Member
Could you maybe mark on the cave scene picture where you think the chip is , the legs and the brass area? Maybe I'm just not seeing it.
I've spent so many hours in search of this board (and the buttons). Whoever identifies where it came from deserves a medal. I've searched through documents cataloguing 70s/80s electronic company logos, in search of something resembling the pattern on the chip. This led nowhere. Also looking at as many internal images of contemporary electrical items. Nothing. There are a few online microprocessor museums too and I've gone through every image. It really is an enigma. I was hoping that identifying the buttons might lead to identifying the board (or vice-versa).

I'm fairly confident that the board that's seen in the hilt in some of the references is the one in the actual scene though. The chip looks to be in the right place to me.

I think the bright line above the red arrow is the light shining off the pins of the chip:

View attachment 1474408
I guess I should watch the whole deleted scene to capture some better images, as I really don't see how the boards match on the pictures here, but at this quality a single frame can be very misleading.

So you are saying that this area (red square) is actually the chip and what I thought is solder traces is in fact the white ... art that's painted on the chip? What about the distinctive black rectangle right next to that area (yellow circle) - there it should be mostly just shiny brass if it was the same as the reveal board
1625860553208.png
 

DaveP

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Could you maybe mark on the cave scene picture where you think the chip is , the legs and the brass area? Maybe I'm just not seeing it.

I guess I should watch the whole deleted scene to capture some better images, as I really don't see how the boards match on the pictures here, but at this quality a single frame can be very misleading.

So you are saying that this area (red square) is actually the chip and what I thought is solder traces is in fact the white ... art that's painted on the chip? What about the distinctive black rectangle right next to that area (yellow circle) - there it should be mostly just shiny brass if it was the same as the reveal board
View attachment 1474865
It's not very clear, that's for sure. but the dark rectangle you have circled in the bottom image is the green rectangle area that's ever so slightly up and to the left of the area you have circled on the upper image.

That's what I'm seeing anyway. you can just about make out a bright line running up the left hand side of the chip. These are the traces (sometimes mistaken for a resister in the top down reference)
 

v312

Well-Known Member
I've looked into the complete cave scene and pulled these two frames. Not much is seen from the rest of the board, but the white stuff looks damn close to the "art" or logo that is painted on the chip
1625879766042.png
 

BRRogers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
note the reflective bits can be tracked and correlated with the IC position and paint as well as the red of the wire (though blurred in the cave scene)

DE798F62-8C5A-455E-848E-21292C35A59A.jpeg

68D94077-4687-46C7-8E93-EA66128E71A3.jpeg
77777941-334F-48AF-842C-7C036A8DB5BE.jpeg


422C6881-422E-4FCA-AED5-6A11C34E2F8E.jpeg

note how the edge of the IC paint matches what we can barely see underneath as it sits on display today
 
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thd9791

Master Member
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Love it. What led you to picture that type of on/off switch? The shortest right angle one's I've seen aren't encased
 

BRRogers

Sr Member
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Love it. What led you to picture that type of on/off switch? The shortest right angle one's I've seen aren't encased
Honestly, it could even be an exactra selector, that’s just an example of a similar slide switch top that matches what I believe to be there :)
 
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DaveP

Master Member
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There are these two shots too which seem to indicate that the board ends begore the green triangle. And there does appear to be a switch as Bryan says, but it looks to me to not be fixed to the board, rather, it looks to be squashed in to the gap.

GAP2.jpg
GAP.jpg


What's going on with the size of that triangle by the way? It really does lead me to wonder if, in 1983, any of this was functional? The lights were definitely blinking, but could the switch have been in there for show. I agree that it certainly looks like a switch in this reference, but could it have been there so that Hamill actually had something to "switch"?

I'm still not convinced they'd have gone to the trouble of fitting a functioning circuit (with power source) all in to that box. And the gap at the other end of the card (and between the clamp card itself) appears to be intentional.

Maybe somewhere between the two?? Functioning switch/external battery?
 

v312

Well-Known Member
I was trying to find some devices released no later than 1983 that feature this kind of chip. I thought that to use a smd chip with so many legs back then only made sense for portable electronic devices (larger than a typical wrist watch though). So first thing that comes to mind is calculators, then maybe early handheld gaming consoles ... I could not come up with any other device type. Anything bigger seems still used DIP ICs and trough hole components.

So I've started looking and there are plenty of calculators from that era that feature this kind of chips made mostly by Nec, Toshiba and Sharp.
US companies like Texas Instruments at the time also look to exclusively use these Japanese chips or directly rebrand Japanese made calculators as their own.

The interesting part is that many if not most of the ones I've checked (from 1980 to somewhere in the 90s) feature a similar square chip, similar blue tantalum capacitor, some red wire and almost nothing else on their pcbs (since the entire calculator is practically implemented in the chip)

Here are some example from the datamath site:
1626899918941.png

Since these old calculators are also dirt cheap on ebay I bought some and will try to make a convincing reveal board from the pieces
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
There are these two shots too which seem to indicate that the board ends begore the green triangle. And there does appear to be a switch as Bryan says, but it looks to me to not be fixed to the board, rather, it looks to be squashed in to the gap.

View attachment 1475020 View attachment 1475019

What's going on with the size of that triangle by the way? It really does lead me to wonder if, in 1983, any of this was functional? The lights were definitely blinking, but could the switch have been in there for show. I agree that it certainly looks like a switch in this reference, but could it have been there so that Hamill actually had something to "switch"?

I'm still not convinced they'd have gone to the trouble of fitting a functioning circuit (with power source) all in to that box. And the gap at the other end of the card (and between the clamp card itself) appears to be intentional.

Maybe somewhere between the two?? Functioning switch/external battery?
is that a stick of green acrylic? I'm wondering if they did some sort of fiber optic thing, putting a flasher at the other end
 

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DaveP

Master Member
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I was trying to find some devices released no later than 1983 that feature this kind of chip. I thought that to use a smd chip with so many legs back then only made sense for portable electronic devices (larger than a typical wrist watch though). So first thing that comes to mind is calculators, then maybe early handheld gaming consoles ... I could not come up with any other device type. Anything bigger seems still used DIP ICs and trough hole components.

So I've started looking and there are plenty of calculators from that era that feature this kind of chips made mostly by Nec, Toshiba and Sharp.
US companies like Texas Instruments at the time also look to exclusively use these Japanese chips or directly rebrand Japanese made calculators as their own.

The interesting part is that many if not most of the ones I've checked (from 1980 to somewhere in the 90s) feature a similar square chip, similar blue tantalum capacitor, some red wire and almost nothing else on their pcbs (since the entire calculator is practically implemented in the chip)

Here are some example from the datamath site:
View attachment 1477942
Since these old calculators are also dirt cheap on ebay I bought some and will try to make a convincing reveal board from the pieces
I think we've been on a similar journey with these! I'm also pretty convinced it's very likely to be from a pocket calculator. The problem is finding which one! The Datamath Calculator Museum site is great, but I think I've been through just about every image on there and every model mentioned. Vintage Calculators Web Museum is also very extensive too, but again, I'm yet to find an example that has the capacitor in the correct place.

Great idea making a reveal board from one that's at least a close match though. Even if it's not 100% accurate, it'll be great to say that it has a genuine vintage board! :)
 

DaveP

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
is that a stick of green acrylic? I'm wondering if they did some sort of fiber optic thing, putting a flasher at the other end
I did wonder that, it seams a bit unnecessary though (and takes up a lot of space. I wondered if it was actually a large LED that had been reshaped to fit?
 

v312

Well-Known Member
I think we've been on a similar journey with these! I'm also pretty convinced it's very likely to be from a pocket calculator. The problem is finding which one! The Datamath Calculator Museum site is great, but I think I've been through just about every image on there and every model mentioned. Vintage Calculators Web Museum is also very extensive too, but again, I'm yet to find an example that has the capacitor in the correct place.

Great idea making a reveal board from one that's at least a close match though. Even if it's not 100% accurate, it'll be great to say that it has a genuine vintage board! :)
Yes, I assumed you've (and others) already looked through all these resources... I didn't really expect to find an exact match of the pcb "layout" (and from what I see there are few pieces stacked together), just one with a chip with the right size and number of legs. As I've mentioned in the previous post there are plenty with a similar square chip, the capacitor and wire somewhere on the board, but some chips are too big/have too many legs.
 

corliss1

Well-Known Member
Fine, I'll be that guy :D

If this is our reference...

Screen Shot 2021-07-23 at 11.51.12 AM.png


aren't we looking at the underside of the board? We only see the solder pads and not the black square itself, which is also why components are limited on this side. As circuits get revised, back in the day it was cheaper to just tack on a couple small parts instead of redesign the entire board, hence the blue cap and red wire.
 

v312

Well-Known Member
No, it is smt, there's no "underside" of the board. Even the blue capacitor, that itself is trough hole is soldered on the surface. Check the boards that I've posted earlier.

The other side on most of them is just the contacts for the calculator keys
 

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thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I've noticed a lot of random holes in those boards too, for case screws or pins to hold the board in place. Would help confirm why there's a hole so close to the chip
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I ended up having to slice all the leads off my DaveP board on the top side, to make room for the switch. I think the whole chip is intact though
 

DaveP

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
So then, is the chip actually broken off in the reference images?
I can tell you from experience that it's very unlikely that the chip has been removed from the board. Virtually impossible to do without the pins ending up all over the place. They're all perfectly straight still in the reference.
 

corliss1

Well-Known Member
I agree - removing those chips cleanly requires special tools.

So if we're seeing the top side of the board, why don't we see a big black square chip in the images?
 

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