Magic of Myth ( MoM ) Luke RotJ Hero ( cave build ) lightsaber research, images, reference, & collaborative model builder's discussion.

BRRogers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Hi guys. So to start things off I'd like to compile as many images possible of the saber. JUST the MoM (cave build) variant. Other castings or subsequent builds licensed or fan builds are not to be referenced as they need not apply for various reasons of features or dimensions.

For the sake of discussion, the Yuma can obviously be included here in photo and comparison discussion as it is accepted that it was likely the stunt saber that was turned into the ISYHCANL pickup shot and the subsequent deleted cave build scene... which as we know is now the final iteration of that prop on screen.

This discussion is a spinoff from another thread where drizzt1234 and myself began discussing at length the various forms of replicas that have come from this prop (especially recently) and how none seem to capture the minute details... some very glaring things in particular which I'll get into.

So section one in this post I'm just going to compile images and add to them as they come in.
Section 2 will hopefully be a good discussion on the scale and sizing of the saber based off of images that can be corroborated with real world items or other verified props.
Section 3 will essentially be the rest of the thread, discussing the making of the open-source model and hopefully arriving somewhere that could allow production for something incredibly and reliably accurate.
If you have an image you'd like to share please message it to me or e-mail it to me at BRRogers87@gmail.com
(I would like to keep this thread as clean and concise as possible in the first few postings)
 
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BRRogers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
(reserved space for data collation photography, photoshops, links)
Collective Data: All the things!
Images generated in photoshop to align with major markers. The graflex on the left was sized with a real world Graflex as compared to a MK1 & V2. With their markers aligning well it can be generally assumed that the Hero SHOULD have an emitter length of 278mm just like the MK1 and the V2 (referencing Anakin Starkiller's V2)
1022354

Of course... all of these images have different viewing angles and distortions... but every single one manages to line up to each other in some fashion, and as compared to the MK1 and V2 dimensions there are many portions that just... make sense.
Thus along with some good ol fashion tedious photoshop and I believe that these are the major dimensions. Reaching a 278mm pommel to emitter face and 287mm full length. RIGHT in between the V2 and the Lucasfilm Archive denotation.


*edit- Friday 05/24. Assembled the collated "Frankenstein" from all available reference thus far... dimensions forthcoming.
*edit- Sunday 05/26. Collated all the lengths and diameters sans the actual grenade (which is pretty much there already as it is - but I'll get that too soon. This works for a rough blueprint
*edit 6/7
I pulled the dimensions... there were too many variables that changed but we have what we need. Soon there will be a proper render and a supporting model

Evidence to Support "lineage theory" that the Hero should be sized to match the MK1, V2, V3.
Example 1: this canon image on the left of the Graflex and Hero taken at the same time on a table (seen above)
As compared to a replica Graflex and the Anakin Starkiller V2 (which dimensions from pommel to emitter face are 278mm)

1022495
1022496

Example 2: A real world example...
A photo of the Hero along with the (or a) V3 (Generally accepted as a V2 copy)
Asserting that 278mm is the length of the pommel to the emitter, I cut the two tubes on the right to 278mm (10-15/16") and placed them (approximately) like they are positioned in the left photo. I am proposing that due to the recreation of the positioning that the Hero does in-fact have the same dimensions. Considering that in the Lucasfilm Archive book the Hero and the V3 are both listed at the same length (29cm... likely estimated but notedly NOT different for some reason)
1022497

“Lineage theory”
If all are aligned.... would wouldn’t the Hero be too?
1022779

^278mm from pommel (standing) to face exactly on both the MK1 & V2
1022780

Thus I propose There’s no logical reason they would make one that was undersized if they had access to the originals.
 

Attachments

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BRRogers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
(reserved space for 3d model updates and release information)
Preliminary work: still some things to sort out but, the length distances appear to speak for themselves. Diameters are still being scrutinized and we are consulting familiar/respected sources for additional details and direction.
In Lieu if model adjustments I’ll wait to post the updated dimensions.

I will add that every major dimension does hit our target points... and adds credibility to the “lineage theory” which I’ll have to define specifically once were done... but it’s very exciting and- given the process to arrive here makes the most sense from a production standpoint

1704FC9F-6153-493B-B2CC-66836D372A62.jpeg

1026824

1026825

1026941
 
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thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I'm not 100% sure if I'm reading this right, but i don't think the V2 and Hero are the same length.

I know that the brass rails are 1/8" brass right angle stock and the card in 1/16" thick.
 

drizzt1234

Member
I'm not 100% sure if I'm reading this right, but i don't think the V2 and Hero are the same length.

I know that the brass rails are 1/8" brass right angle stock and the card in 1/16" thick.
If I might ask how you know this?

The evidence with relevant known measures in the photos seems to be pretty compelling around at least general lengths and diameters of the Hero...

A number of us are debating but we are all within about 4mm of difference amongst those of us working on this model. That is a pretty small margin to come to with independent conclusion.

Curious as to your reasoning/evidence? Not challenging but seeking rationale.
 
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BRRogers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Just emailed you a whole bunch. Some decent, some pukers. Maybe they'll help.
Thanks: I added the ones that were clearly the Hero. I might do a separate section with reference built from the various castings. Just to have if we feel we need to fill in the gaps... which at this point would be less than a mm

thd9791
Added a new section to respond directly. All this is worth discussing.
 

Gregatron

Sr Member
(reserved space for data collation photography, photoshops, links)
Collective Data: All the things!
Images generated in photoshop to align with major markers. The graflex on the left was sized with a real world Graflex as compared to a MK1 & V2. With their markers aligning well it can be generally assumed that the Hero SHOULD have an emitter length of 278mm just like the MK1 and the V2 (referencing Anakin Starkiller's V2)
View attachment 1022354
Of course... all of these images have different viewing angles and distortions... but every single one manages to line up to each other in some fashion, and as compared to the MK1 and V2 dimensions there are many portions that just... make sense.
Thus along with some good ol fashion tedious photoshop and I believe that these are the major dimensions. Reaching a 278mm pommel to emitter face and 287mm full length. RIGHT in between the V2 and the Lucasfilm Archive denotation.

View attachment 1022513
*edit... making small adjustments to hone in the collate image. I'll add lines and a plan with diameters over time

Evidence to Support "lineage theory" that the Hero should be sized to match the MK1, V2, V3.
Example 1: this canon image on the left of the Graflex and Hero taken at the same time on a table (seen above)
As compared to a replica Graflex and the Anakin Starkiller V2 (which dimensions from pommel to emitter face are 278mm)

View attachment 1022495View attachment 1022496
Example 2: A real world example...
A photo of the Hero along with the (or a) V3 (Generally accepted as a V2 copy)
Asserting that 278mm is the length of the pommel to the emitter, I cut the two tubes on the right to 278mm (10-15/16") and placed them (approximately) like they are positioned in the left photo. I am proposing that due to the recreation of the positioning that the Hero does in-fact have the same dimensions. Considering that in the Lucasfilm Archive book the Hero and the V3 are both listed at the same length (29cm... likely estimated but notedly NOT different for some reason)
View attachment 1022497

A word of warning—we shouldn’t necessarily take the ARCHIVES book measurement as stone-cold fact. It’s entirely possibly that they simply took the V3’s measurement, assumed that the hero was the same length (which it probably appears to be, at first glance), then simply repeated the figure in the book.
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Yes, as gregatron said, The archives numbers are known for not being entirely accurate. I was under the impression that the hero was different in almost every dimension from the ANH stunt sabers. That picture on the guy's stomach showed us that it was a bit larger than we thought, but we don't know how far either are pressed against someone's body. I can do this with a few of my sabers and casually make them look like they're the same length... In any case, this is a good time to discuss this. Soon, I think Anakin Starkiller is releasing a run of this very saber and he's correcting bits from his last run almost 15 years ago (?). Back then it was nearly identical to the real thing so I can imagine we can get accurate dimensions again soon
 

SethS

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Assuming the V2 and V3 are roughly the same diameter, can't you use the graflex clamp on the V3 to extrapolate a lot of relative measurements?
 

BRRogers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
A word of warning—we shouldn’t necessarily take the ARCHIVES book measurement as stone-cold fact. It’s entirely possibly that they simply took the V3’s measurement, assumed that the hero was the same length (which it probably appears to be, at first glance), then simply repeated the figure in the book.

Exactly, which is why it ISNT 29cm ;)
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I also want to stop by and say thank you for compiling and comparing so many of these photos. I'm among a few folks who have started ROTJ Hero threads in the past ten years and the pictures are scattered all over the site. I've always been dying to know things about this prop, and details of the Yuma stunt, which may or may not be the source of the saber
 
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