Magic of Myth ( MoM ) Luke RotJ Hero ( cave build ) lightsaber research, images, reference, & collaborative model builder's discussion.

[Dann]

I actually had a slightly different setup in my control box a couple months back, using a small three position slide switch, but it didn't last long, for some reason (a wire may have simply come loose, but I'm not sure), and a 3V coin cell.

After shooting this test video, I cleaned up everything inside the box and was able to fit everything UNDERNEATH the false decorative circuit board, with only the slide switch showing at the front end of the box. It worked for several days. The little SMD LEDS are just back-lighting the triangle LEDs (which aren't connected to anything).

This is MY control box, that I milled, and it's a little SHORTER than the MoM (in length, front to back, not quite 2"), but slightly taller (from the floor to the rails), though I have no reason to believe this stuff wouldn't fit in an accurate size box. Of course, these components aren't contemporary of the day, but I believe even contemporary components would've been small enough to fit.


And thanks to some brainstorming and collaboration with Bryan, I just rigged this up. It's almost the same as the last one I did, but with a separate power switch and control switch.

Just a quick and dirty test, but that's running on a single 3V coin cell (both circuits have been powered with single 3V lithium coin cells) and it shouldn't have any problem squeezing into the control box, either.

 

[BRRogers]

Yay Dann! That's awesome!!! Thanks for posting this, I haven't wanted to let your cat out of your bag. haha

otherwise:
Copy and pasting *bumping* to pg 37....



Yuma box = ISYHCANL box= Cave Hero box support:
By association, first.... and knowing that the ISYHCANL did have the black buttons anyway.
Hero to ISYHCANL from what we can see in that scene.

The second correlation relates to the Yuma.
We would HAVE to assume that the ISYCANL/Cave box would have either:
-Been made separately
-Was a modded Yuma.

So how would we know that they did or didn’t make a new one?
I’ll submit my argument:

The Yuma, didn’t just have two raised simple rails...But also a little lip at the front of the box which appeared to terminate.

When modifying the Yuma, they milled off that section right at the seam... however went just a bit too deep leaving the light bur now seen on the Hero.
Conversely, if the ISYHCANL box was made separately it surely would’ve been milled flat, and this coincidence wouldn’t be available to pick at.

would love to see better reference of the Yuma if anyone has it

 

[Dann]

Thanks, Bryan! I actually forgot that I never shared the "light-up" setup on the forum! For some reason, I thought I already had.

Oh well, the cat that I thought I had let loose, is now loose, for real.

And yeah, I totally see them dark circles on the back side of the box. Same prop. I didn't realize just how many folks still think these are two separate things. I feel like I read something recently that someone posted, (maybe Vader's Vault?) where the Yuma and the Cave Build/MoM are referred to as two separate props.

Not aiming to talk smack about anybody at all, just that there's so many details that match-up, I honestly thought it was long ago that these were agreed to be the same hilt. I suppose a more recent subject has been the control box, and whether that specific part was the same. So I get that. Great detective work with the dark circles and the lip/burr at the edge!

 

[BRRogers]

All these little fillets. Or solid drill points.
I had assumed the light areas on the aluminum corners were dust, or un-buffed matte clear. Now after going over all the pictures, it makes much more sense to me now that it’s light in those areas reflecting off of a radiused inside corner. Tiny, but there.(depending on the light source)

 

[Dann]

Yep, totally the radius tip/nose of the cutting tool in the lathe.

And the center drill holes at either end, suggesting everything was turned together.

Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean that the entire hilt is all one solid piece, the pommel could be separate, for example (though from your pics, it doesn't APPEAR so), as well as other parts, but it certainly appears as if, at the very least, that the whole thing was turned "fully assembled" (minus the box) and all at once at some point.

And the fillets or radii inside some of the corners definitely suggest a continuous part.

 

[thd9791]

I slept on this one - because I wanted to write up a decent amount.

First, thank you! That's a lot of information.

When it comes to already known facts - the only thing I remember in 10 years on here was that the grip rings were really similar, and maybe some other large geometry. I don't remember any plethora of details that line up, maybe there's a thread I've forgotten about, but with like 1 1/2 pictures of the thing (Yuma), the grip spacing was the only similar trait I thought we knew of. Surely not a slam dunk, there were no scratches, permanent marks, or paint patterns to go by (since the paint job was all new). We also have no information on the number of Yuma's made, I remember theories that the ISYHCANL was one of a few Yuma stunts, a copy of them, or the one and only Yuma stunt. Without proper pictures, I don't remember being able to definitively line up small details with the current saber.

I don't see the similar machining marks those arrows are pointing to, whether it's that dark rectangle, or the large circles (if it is, I don't see them as identical patterns?)

The control box though, is a really cool bit. Looks like they didn't finish clearing the middle of the box and left a piece at the end? I always wondered if that was a cast line on the Cave box or something.... the milling theory makes sense, and I can't unsee that now. The box being offset (the screws on the Yuma) ...if it really is, and those screws are centered on the body, it would explain the offset box we see on the current saber too. This is neat stuff. here we see them recycling and cutting up older props for new ones, and thats SO starwars!

As for lathing - I know the emitter nipple is a little off, like it wasnt totally centered on the lathe... is the pommel offset in the same degree?

 

[BRRogers]

I slept on this one - because I wanted to write up a decent amount.

First, thank you! That's a lot of information.

When it comes to already known facts - the only thing I remember in 10 years on here was that the grip rings were really similar, and maybe some other large geometry. I don't remember any plethora of details that line up, maybe there's a thread I've forgotten about, but with like 1 1/2 pictures of the thing (Yuma), the grip spacing was the only similar trait I thought we knew of. Surely not a slam dunk, there were no scratches, permanent marks, or paint patterns to go by (since the paint job was all new). We also have no information on the number of Yuma's made, I remember theories that the ISYHCANL was one of a few Yuma stunts, a copy of them, or the one and only Yuma stunt. Without proper pictures, I don't remember being able to definitively line up small details with the current saber.

I don't see the similar machining marks those arrows are pointing to, whether it's that dark rectangle, or the large circles (if it is, I don't see them as identical patterns?)

The control box though, is a really cool bit. Looks like they didn't finish clearing the middle of the box and left a piece at the end? I always wondered if that was a cast line on the Cave box or something.... the milling theory makes sense, and I can't unsee that now. The box being offset (the screws on the Yuma) ...if it really is, and those screws are centered on the body, it would explain the offset box we see on the current saber too. This is neat stuff. here we see them recycling and cutting up older props for new ones, and thats SO starwars!

As for lathing - I know the emitter nipple is a little off, like it wasnt totally centered on the lathe... is the pommel offset in the same degree?

thd9791

I’ll take some more time soon to highlight the specific things that pop out on the milling marks that show they’re the same

it’s one of those things too: once you see it you can’t unsee it

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

Yay Dann! That's awesome!!! Thanks for posting this, I haven't wanted to let your cat out of your bag. haha

otherwise:
Copy and pasting *bumping* to pg 37....



Yuma box = ISYHCANL box= Cave Hero box support:
By association, first.... and knowing that the ISYHCANL did have the black buttons anyway.
Hero to ISYHCANL from what we can see in that scene.

View attachment 1271399

The second correlation relates to the Yuma.
We would HAVE to assume that the ISYCANL/Cave box would have either:
-Been made separately
-Was a modded Yuma.

So how would we know that they did or didn’t make a new one?
I’ll submit my argument:

The Yuma, didn’t just have two raised simple rails...But also a little lip at the front of the box which appeared to terminate.

When modifying the Yuma, they milled off that section right at the seam... however went just a bit too deep leaving the light bur now seen on the Hero.
Conversely, if the ISYHCANL box was made separately it surely would’ve been milled flat, and this coincidence wouldn’t be available to pick at.

would love to see better reference of the Yuma if anyone has it

View attachment 1271400

I don't think the Yuma control box had a "lip" there. I think what you're seeing is glue residue from when a clamp card was glued on top there. In the blow up I have, that's what it looks like to me at least.

 

[BRRogers]

.

Anakin Starkiller
Would be super exciting/helpful to share with the class?

 

[BRRogers]

...Anyway thd9791
This is for you.

It may be a little difficult to make out and I apologize. I wasn't easy (just due to the photographic skewing happening, and the lighting hits different areas)
But I hope this (as close as I can... for the moment) illustrate how the milling marks and reflections on the ISYHCANL match up to those of the display MoM Hero.

the yellow lines are markers traced from the ISYHCANL scene and the red is markers traced from the MoM display shots.

I realize, and apologize that they aren't perfectly aligned. HOWEVER: even if it doesn't overlap exactly you can double check the common areas 'near' some of these shapes and see that the outlines or common geometry matches up.

Personally; I’m even more sure than ever in the accuracy of the claim that it's the same box here... now officially having done this photoshop exercise.

I'm beginning to see a few other ways to pull out and corroborate the geometry , so if anyone feels it necessary I see how I can do this a few other ways (though I'd prefer not) XD

*edit* I also just realized you can make out the same light burr/ level-change on the box previously described (the red arrow)

 

[BRRogers]

Also thd9791

there aren’t any super close PHOTOS to align the Yuma with the MoM,cave hero... but considering the model is as close as it is, I think this should help showcase the uncanny same-ness.

 

[DaveP]

This latest conversation passed me by somehow! Awesome work BRRogers!

Still waiting on Disney+ here in the UK, and only have 4K references of the ISYHCANL scene. Looking at your images though, I think I'm going to have to round some corners on my Yuma box. Going to have to get the full size version of 4K83 downloaded and take a closer look as I only have the standard HD version currently.

I assumed Anakin Starkiller's version was rounded off for safety/comfort reasons, which makes sence in an FX hilt, but looking at those references, it looks like they did the same with the actual prop.

Awesome work on the electronics too! Well outside of my area of expertise! It's going to be a bit of a learning experience when I get round to doing mine!

Love the idea of hiding the switch at the end of the box, Dann! Beautiful job!

 

[Mouse Vader]

BRR - Great to see where the screws are. Even that they're slot heads too.

 

[thd9791]

Oh my gosh that had to have been so much work. Thank you for doing that - You're going to hate me, but

I still don't see those patterns

but thats not on you! You've provided more than enough and I'd like to sit with these tracings for some time and study them, I'm aware that first glances are never complete lol

Now, the fact that you found that milling ridge on screen really strikes me, and is enough to convince me being an accidental detail basically

Also... now... you've spent months modelling the cave saber, and it actually lines up with the Yuma picture on all those places! That's some pretty cool research, going back and applying your result to another saber hilt. Crap. WHY DID THEY DESTROY A STUNT SABER FOR A HERO, well that's overkill, but I like that box. Rounded corners I'm seeing?

 

[Dann]

This latest conversation passed me by somehow! Awesome work BRRogers!

Still waiting on Disney+ here in the UK, and only have 4K references of the ISYHCANL scene. Looking at your images though, I think I'm going to have to round some corners on my Yuma box. Going to have to get the full size version of 4K83 downloaded and take a closer look as I only have the standard HD version currently.

I assumed Anakin Starkiller's version was rounded off for safety/comfort reasons, which makes sence in an FX hilt, but looking at those references, it looks like they did the same with the actual prop.

Awesome work on the electronics too! Well outside of my area of expertise! It's going to be a bit of a learning experience when I get round to doing mine!

Love the idea of hiding the switch at the end of the box, Dann! Beautiful job!

Thanks Dave!

The switch is at the front end of the box on the real prop, that's why I put it there. Of course, it's only a two position slide switch on the real thing..

 

[Halliwax]

WHY DID THEY DESTROY A STUNT SABER FOR A HERO

they did the same exact thing for the V2.

nothing makes sense when it comes to this stuff, just grab random crap and make it work

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

I assumed Anakin Starkiller's version was rounded off for safety/comfort reasons, which makes sence in an FX hilt, but looking at those references, it looks like they did the same with the actual prop.

I did not modify the part for safety and comfort. I designed my parts to replicate the original parts as closely as possible based on what I saw.

 

[DaveP]

I did not modify the part for safety and comfort. I designed my parts to replicate the original parts as closely as possible based on what I saw.

No worries. I wasn't questioning the accuracy of your kit, which is flawless as far as I can see! The images of the Yuma are so hard to interpret, I figured it's open to a degree of interpretation. I'm guessing BRRogers grabbed his images from the new 4K footage and they're clearer than I've ever seen. I'm going to have to go back and refine mine now that there are better references available. No offense intended.

 

[BRRogers]

Alright thd9791 haha, perhaps these will be clearer.

should be the clearest between all the images (ISYHCANL scene up top, mom display bottom)

 

[BRRogers]

DaveP
I’m glad for that, wish it was as clear as it *actually* appears on screen; I’m using my small 4K tv and taking slow-mo video zoomed in on these areas
(I lose a lot of detail just in that way) :\