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I saw this story and it just doesn’t make sense if true.


So what are they afraid of, that it might look like a real thermal detonator.... which isn’t a real thing.

Seems to me these should not be an issue if you take the cap off and pack them separately. Otherwise it is just a plastic ball. If you can’t have that then are all round objects banned?

And why do people keep comparing these to thermal detonators? Besides being round, that’s where the similarities end. These are simply suppose to represent alien soda containers.
 
I saw this story and it just doesn’t make sense if true.


So what are they afraid of, that it might look like a real thermal detonator.... which isn’t a real thing.

Seems to me these should not be an issue if you take the cap off and pack them separately. Otherwise it is just a plastic ball. If you can’t have that then are all round objects banned?

And why do people keep comparing these to thermal detonators? Besides being round, that’s where the similarities end. These are simply suppose to represent alien soda containers.

Yeah that's weird.....
 
I think it's important to point out that I've never heard anyone say it's just for kids. The target audience is 12-year-olds, sure. But it has stuff that appeals to both the younger kids and adults. But a good amount is aimed for that age group, hence you get slightly ridiculous things like a four-armed cyborg wielding 4 lightsabers at the same time. And I agree it does have more layers. When you're young you watch it for the spectacle. But as you grow older you begin to understand some of those layers. That's why it is so appealing for everyone.


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But if I could take a quick moment just to share some thoughts. Some things that irritate me when I'm arguing with those who dislike the ST.

When I am wanting to start off a discussion, I'll often ask the person to give me the top thing that they dislike. And some of them just leave me going "huh?" Most recently, people(YouTube) are complaining about the "new" lightsaber, saying that Disney/JJ are just stupid and that it's stupid design, etc. And I can't help ask, why complain about it now? The saber was first seen in 2011, in the episode Darkness on Umbara. Then later in Rebels. No or few complaints. But now that it's in the movie......... what's the difference? Someone help me understand.

Or I had one guy say that Starfortresses were his thing. And that it's stupid to drop bombs vertically in Star Wars. So I had to ask him. Had he seen ESB? He answers yes he had. And so I ask him, 'what about the TIE bombers? Those don't bother you?' I didn't get a response.

Another guy said his thing was that the laser bolts fired by the Supremacy, fired in an arc. Which left me dumbfounded. Had he not seen the Death Star superlaser? It takes 6 separate beams, combines them into one beam. And changes their direction. And all in the cold, empty void of space. But a laser bolt flying in an arc is what broke his suspension of belief....... I'm so confused.
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Okay I'm done.....sorry just wanted to share it

Well not everyone can articulate why they like or dislike something. I couldn't tell you why I don't like fish. I just don't. No matter how often I've tried it, I just don't like the taste.

You also have to account for the fact that not everyone feels the need to justify their opinion. Which is their choice and just like their opinion they have the right to either explain it or not.

I think ThreadSketch had a perfect metaphor not only for Star Wars but for the fandom in general. If you haven't read it, check it out because perhaps it would better illustrate where many of us stand on the issue.

Just wanted to add that fandom is a buffet. There's a lineup of foods to choose from and everyone will put what they want on their plate and not serve themselves stuff they don't want. The majority of diners will do this and no one could accuse them of "hating the entire buffet" just because they don't spoon out something from every tray. Likewise, customers who do eat everything in the buffet are relatively rare.

Since diners are paying for the buffet, they have the right to speak up about aspects they may not like, or wish could be improved. Maybe there isn't a sneeze guard or foods are being left too long on the hot plate and drying out. Perhaps over time the quality of all the offerings goes south, or lacks variety. Even so, the gist is that the a la carte approach is exactly what fans should embrace about fandom. At the end of the day, it's all fake and in space.

And if the whole buffet isn't meeting your tastes anymore, there's always other restaurants, or your own home cookin'. ;)
 
And I can't help ask, why complain about it now? The saber was first seen in 2011, in the episode Darkness on Umbara. Then later in Rebels. No or few complaints. But now that it's in the movie......... what's the difference? Someone help me understand.
Most people don’t see or read or play with the ancillary material. I never saw an episode of Clone Wars or Rebels. I read a handful of EU books and apart from Shadows of the Empire found them silly, trying too hard and usually of low quality. The story for the games I played were always filler. The movies are what matter to most not to mention that the tone of a Saturday morning cartoon show is very different to the movie.
There was a Robocop animated series (good old 80s when one of the most gloriously violent and gory action movies was marketed for kids). One of the episodes was that Robocop went on a date with Lewis and he had a cold so he had to eat chicken soup or something along those lines.
Now if you’ve only seen the first two Robocop movies and Robocop 3 has a dating Robo who has the sniffles and slurps bouillon then you would scratch your head (which is similar to what happened to the actual Robocop 3 movie). Even if you saw bits from the cartoon you’d be like “well that’s byproduct”. Which it is at the end of the day, no matter how hard some would shout “it’s CANON, you HAVE TO accept it!”.

Or I had one guy say that Starfortresses were his thing. And that it's stupid to drop bombs vertically in Star Wars.
[...]
Another guy said his thing was that the laser bolts fired by the Supremacy, fired in an arc. Which left me dumbfounded.
Yea that’s what I call Jar-Jar effect. Those people didn’t dislike the movie cuz the lasers went in an arc or the bombs dropped. Those are just the things they can put their finger on. Most people were and still are pointing at Jar-Jar as the reason why they dislike TPM because that’s the most jarring thing (no pun intended). If you take Jar-Jar out they still wouldn’t like it because it’s a sloppy movie with no relatable characters, shot like a boring documentary, with a rushed and illogical script and plenty things that undermine previous movies. They just don’t analyse it that much.
Conversely most people know that compressed air tanks don’t explode but hardly anyone says that Jaws is ruined by that because the rest of the movie is made perfectly.
 
The movies should make sense on their own. Comics/series/whatever are canon but the movies are the most important thing. This is a cinematic saga, the most culturally relevant in History, no matter what country, what culture, and there should be a responsability in that. It's not a home entertainment subscription.

When people tell me to shut up with my complains because it'll be all explained in comic books, visual guides, tv series and so on... geez! That really grinds my gears, to say the least. "But it is canon" they say. I don't care! The audience should not be expected to know that. That's not how you make movies.
 
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What I find sad is that I used to so much enjoy sitting with my friends and discussing Star Wars for hours, even days on end. Now I find ST threads to be pretty much nothing but scroll-fodder. When I come to this forum the Star Wars threads are the absolute last thing I click on. If at all.
 
I agree with you. While my stance is that the content has gone downhill (and I know that others disagree) often the debates that go on get so tiresome that I wonder why I even bother participating at times.

Each side for better or worse is fully entrenched in their position and while I don't begrudge anyone for their view as they are entitled to it, there is something to be said for there being a shift in the way the discussions have played out ever since the Disney acquisition.

I think much of it stems from the prevalence of social media and the abomination that is Twitter which affords the content creators the means to interact directly with fans. More often than not it results in the worst coming out in people on both sides.

I could delve into the devolving nature of culture as a whole too and I've touched on it in the past but I also don't want to get banned or bog down the threads into a diatribe on the subject.

Either way a lot of the joy I once found in the discussion of Star Wars is often sucked out and perhaps I am part of the cause so I can't fault anyone wholesale without acknowledging some blame in the matter.
 
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I agree with you. While my stance is that the content has gone downhill (and I know that others disagree) often the debates that go on get so tiresome that I wonder why I even bother participating at times.

Each side for better or worse is fully entrenched in their position and while I don't begrudge anyone for their view as they are entitled to it, there is something to be said for there being a shift in the way the discussions have played out ever since the Disney acquisition.

I think much of it stems from the prevalence of social media and the abomination that is Twitter which affords the content creators the means to interact directly with fans. More often than not it results in the worst coming out in people on both sides.

I could delve into the devolving nature of culture as a whole too and I've touched on it in the past but I also don't want to get banned or bog down the threads into a diatribe on the subject.

Either way a lot of the joy I once found in the discussion of Star Wars is often sucked out and perhaps I am part of the cause so I can't fault anyone wholesale without acknowledging some blame in the matter.

And it's made worse by people taking a side, not because they necessarily like or dislike, but just to get clicks. There is a well known YouTuber who has stated that only reason he ever talks about Kathleen Kennedy, Disney, Lucasfilm etc. Is cause it gets him views. And hence money. And then they have audacity to say that all that Disney cares about is the money (which is true for Disney, not so much for Lucasfilm I think, ugh I dislike big studios, but I digress). I see a big double standard on both sides of the fandom.

Another thing I noticed, and this was years ago. Is it feel that they HAVE to dislike the new Star Wars. And they almost want it to fail. I can remember seeing that people were upset when Disney bought Lucasfilm. It's like they set it in their mind right from to the very beginning to dislike everything new. It's so weird to see these people gloat when they say 'oh look it's failing.' They enjoy the ego building of 'see if told you so.'
 
Let’s not forget too that (forgive me, too lazy to scroll back) as someone just recently said there was no new Star Wars. People like me were fine with the OT, ignoring the PT and having 1 or 2 books and a couple of games on the shelf. People also liked the PT and OT and didn’t give a toss about EU. People also liked EU and so on. Main thing is Star Wars wasn’t an active franchise with a movie coming out every year with hype train, naysayers and even more massive marketing behind it. The Disney deal certainly stirred up a relatively still water and it’s more in your face, the movies have a much bigger impact than any EU novel, game or animated series and with that there’s more discussion, more flames to fan (good and bad way). It’s a balloon that I’m kinda waiting to pop, not because I’m angry at Disney or I want it to fail but because it’s just at a level that I don’t enjoy too much.
 
Both very strong points!

I genuinely started off hopeful when the sale happened, though I was cautious to try and temper my expectations.

I totally agree with the YouTube angle! It's one of the reasons why I've avoided commenting about it on my channel. I've been tempted but I just don't feel the need to add one more voice to the chorus. I post too often about as is. Lol. My channel isn't linked to a Patreon either so I have no idea how the monetization aspect even works.

It was Bigdaddy I believe who brought up a lot of the fans in his and my generation being perfectly content with Star Wars being finished after the OT ended or even the PT. Not that I care for the PT, but I don't really need more SW content and never really have. I'm not opposed to it existing, but I certainly feel that since they chose to continue that it better be worth it because fans are crazy passionate about it.
 
Both very strong points!

I genuinely started off hopeful when the sale happened, though I was cautious to try and temper my expectations.

I totally agree with the YouTube angle! It's one of the reasons why I've avoided commenting about it on my channel. I've been tempted but I just don't feel the need to add one more voice to the chorus. I post too often about as is. Lol. My channel isn't linked to a Patreon either so I have no idea how the monetization aspect even works.

It was Bigdaddy I believe who brought up a lot of the fans in his and my generation being perfectly content with Star Wars being finished after the OT ended or even the PT. Not that I care for the PT, but I don't really need more SW content and never really have. I'm not opposed to it existing, but I certainly feel that since they chose to continue that it better be worth it because fans are crazy passionate about it.

That's funny. I started off as skeptical :lol:
 
I don’t if it’s been discussed here, or anywhere on these forums already, and I know it’s been a few years since TLJ, but I’ve been thinking about this for a while without ever seeing it put into words anywhere else.

I think a lot of fans were disappointed with TLJ because of certain aspects of the film, such as
  • How Luke’s character was utilized
  • Who Rey’s parents were
  • Who Snoke was
  • Kylo Ren as an ineffective/childish villain
And so on…

While I can’t vouch for Rian Johnson’s execution of the film/material, I don’t actually think some of these things are actually his fault. And once I say what I am going to hypothesize, I think some people might be less excited for IX.

I believe the problems of the ST to ultimately be the fault of two things: one, the requirement by Disney to have a “soft reboot” in order to bring in new fans unfamiliar to SW, especially in foreign markets; and two, J.J. Abrams’ love of a concept he calls “mystery boxes”, which I’ll explain in more detail.

As for the soft reboot side, it forced Abrams to include tropes, moments, and plot elements from ANH in order to be able to call TFA a “soft reboot”, thereby drawing criticism as being somewhat unoriginal. And speaking as to wanting the foreign markets, I lived in Brazil for a few years. Where I was, very few people had ever seen a single Star Wars film. But Disney is a big international company, and has been for decades. All of the Pixar films I saw there had the text in the movies translated, like destinations at the airport, words on menus or buildings or what have you. The effort put into dubbing the films into Portuguese was phenomenal usually. Of course Disney would want this to work for Star Wars.

But on to my main point. JJ has this concept he has spoken about many times that he refers to as his “mystery box”. Essentially, he believes that what interests people the most is the idea of a mystery, something to solve or figure out. However, he usually doesn’t care/doesn’t know what’s in the box. I mean, look at Lost. How many people were immensely dissatisfied with the ending to that show? He had no idea what he was doing. And that’s the problem here. Most every major problem with TLJ can be traced back to JJ and his unfinished mystery boxes that he put into place rather than just write a story. I mean, who’s Maz Kanata? Who was Max von Sidow’s character whose name I don’t even know because it isn’t in the film? How did he get a map? How did she get the Graflex? How did the First Order get the manpower/funding for all of these ships/soldiers/weapons/time to build a Death Star into a planet?

JJ wanted his big literal cliffhanger shot at the end of TFA, and wanted everyone to be searching for Luke the way they were looking for Obi-Wan in ANH. Except, if you have such a big cliffhanger at the end of your film, the next one has to pick up immediately. Which is not typically how Star Wars has progressed, and led to some problems in the narrative. Furthermore, there really were only so many reasons he would have run off on his own the way JJ had it. This doesn’t mean RJ executed those reasons perfectly, but that he was limited in his choices by JJ.

Next, who is Rey? Who are her parents? Why does it matter? Well, in all honesty, it shouldn’t have. There was no mystery at the beginning of ANH. The idea that Luke’s father was Vader didn’t come up until ESB was in pre-production, and very few people were privy to that information throughout the production of the film. So why should it have mattered who Rey’s parents were? Couldn’t she just have been a person? But JJ’s mystery box had to give us something to try and solve, and bad YouTube channels like Mike Zeroh and the Film Theorist went to work for two years pumping out theory after theory as to who Rey might be. (The same thing with Snoke.) RJ surely sees all of this and decides that this type of story isn’t really SW, and isn’t conducive to telling a story. So, everyone that thought Rey was a Skywalker/Solo/Fett/Binks/etc? Ultimately not important, and frankly shouldn’t have been from the beginning. Unfortunately, there are two things people don’t like—being told their guess was wrong, and being told their guess didn’t matter at all. (And again, this applies to Snoke.) I mean, to illustrate this, let’s imagine it had been revealed in TLJ that Rey was related to someone. Better yet, let’s briefly look at a film where that happens. In the last Fantastic Beasts movie (spoilers ahead for that), we find out that Nagini used to be a human woman with a blood curse, and that Credence is actually a Dumbledore. Far from making the world larger, or making characters stronger, it made the world feel smaller, and the characters weaker. Because now these characters are only significant due to who they are related to. That’s like getting passed over for a promotion due to nepotism.

Finally, Kylo Ren feeling ineffective as a villain. Again, I believe this to be the fault of JJ and the “soft reboot”. Without Luke in the film, there must be a final lightsaber battle as has become customary in SW films. Except, who is there to fight? Just Rey and Kylo. She can’t lose, because that isn’t how ANH goes, so she has to win. Which brings up complaints of being a Mary Sue, and so forth. (Coincidentally, it’s this need to allow the main characters to escape/win that makes the OT stormtroopers look like bad shots. It’s called plot armor.) Next movie comes along, and RJ knows he can’t just have them fight again, because it’s been too little time for either of them to have trained significantly enough to change the results. And now, few people feel that IX has any tension from a Rey good/Kylo bad standpoint, because she’s essentially beaten him twice. Which is probably why all these theories are going around about Rey turning to the dark side and Ben Solo having to be the “Rise of Skywalker”, so to speak.

I don’t think that any of these reasons are enough to make up for Canto Bight, or the production design, or Rose’s character (or Benício Del Toro), or Holdo, or any other flawed execution of otherwise sound concepts. But it something to consider, whether you like the ST or not. And I have enjoyed both TFA and TLJ, but these are some of the main reasons I believe that they have not risen to their highest potential from a story perspective.
 
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Both very strong points!

I genuinely started off hopeful when the sale happened, though I was cautious to try and temper my expectations.
All I ever hoped from this Disney deal is that the market drive would see the untainted OT released in HD. I couldn’t care less about new movies even when the big 3’s involvement was confirmed. I didn’t care for the spinoff films and I got interested only after TFA.
It all felt like when from time to time people come up with BTTF 4. And I’ve seem BTTF more than any other movie in the world, know it in and out but I’m always like “what’d be the point of that?”.
 
I don’t if it’s been discussed here, or anywhere on these forums already, and I know it’s been a few years since TLJ, but I’ve been thinking about this for a while without ever seeing it put into words anywhere else.

I think a lot of fans were disappointed with TLJ because of certain aspects of the film, such as
  • How Luke’s character was utilized
  • Who Rey’s parents were
  • Who Snoke was
  • Kylo Ren as an ineffective/childish villain
And so on…

While I can’t vouch for Rian Johnson’s execution of the film/material, I don’t actually think some of these things are actually his fault. And once I say what I am going to hypothesize, I think some people might be less excited for IX.

I believe the problems of the ST to ultimately be the fault of two things: one, the requirement by Disney to have a “soft reboot” in order to bring in new fans unfamiliar to SW, especially in foreign markets; and two, J.J. Abrams’ love of a concept he calls “mystery boxes”, which I’ll explain in more detail.

As for the soft reboot side, it forced Abrams to include tropes, moments, and plot elements from ANH in order to be able to call TFA a “soft reboot”, thereby drawing criticism as being somewhat unoriginal. And speaking as to wanting the foreign markets, I lived in Brazil for a few years. Where I was, very few people had ever seen a single Star Wars film. But Disney is a big international company, and has been for decades. All of the Pixar films I saw there had the text in the movies translated, like destinations at the airport, words on menus or buildings or what have you. The effort put into dubbing the films into Portuguese was phenomenal usually. Of course Disney would want this to work for Star Wars.

But on to my main point. JJ has this concept he has spoken about many times that he refers to as his “mystery box”. Essentially, he believes that what interests people the most is the idea of a mystery, something to solve or figure out. However, he usually doesn’t care/doesn’t know what’s in the box. I mean, look at Lost. How many people were immensely dissatisfied with the ending to that show? He had no idea what he was doing. And that’s the problem here. Most every major problem with TLJ can be traced back to JJ and his unfinished mystery boxes that he put into place rather than just write a story. I mean, who’s Maz Kanata? Who was Max von Sidow’s character whose name I don’t even know because it isn’t in the film? How did he get a map? How did she get the Graflex? How did the First Order get the manpower/funding for all of these ships/soldiers/weapons/time to build a Death Star into a planet?

JJ wanted his big literal cliffhanger shot at the end of TFA, and wanted everyone to be searching for Luke the way they were looking for Obi-Wan in ANH. Except, if you have such a big cliffhanger at the end of your film, the next one has to pick up immediately. Which is not typically how Star Wars has progressed, and led to some problems in the narrative. Furthermore, there really were only so many reasons he would have run off on his own the way JJ had it. This doesn’t mean RJ executed those reasons perfectly, but that he was limited in his choices by JJ.

Next, who is Rey? Who are her parents? Why does it matter? Well, in all honesty, it shouldn’t have. There was no mystery at the beginning of ANH. The idea that Luke’s father was Vader didn’t come up until ESB was in pre-production, and very few people were privy to that information throughout the production of the film. So why should it have mattered who Rey’s parents were? Couldn’t she just have been a person? But JJ’s mystery box had to give us something to try and solve, and bad YouTube channels like Mike Zeroh and the Film Theorist went to work for two years pumping out theory after theory as to who Rey might be. (The same thing with Snoke.) RJ surely sees all of this and decides that this type of story isn’t really SW, and isn’t conducive to telling a story. So, everyone that thought Rey was a Skywalker/Solo/Fett/Binks/etc? Ultimately not important, and frankly shouldn’t have been from the beginning. Unfortunately, there are two things people don’t like—being told their guess was wrong, and being told their guess didn’t matter at all. (And again, this applies to Snoke.) I mean, to illustrate this, let’s imagine it had been revealed in TLJ that Rey was related to someone. Better yet, let’s briefly look at a film where that happens. In the last Fantastic Beasts movie (spoilers ahead for that), we find out that Nagini used to be a human woman with a blood curse, and that Credence is actually a Dumbledore. Far from making the world larger, or making characters stronger, it made the world feel smaller, and the characters weaker. Because now these characters are only significant due to who they are related to. That’s like getting passed over for a promotion due to nepotism.

Finally, Kylo Ren feeling ineffective as a villain. Again, I believe this to be the fault of JJ and the “soft reboot”. Without Luke in the film, there must be a final lightsaber battle as has become customary in SW films. Except, who is there to fight? Just Rey and Kylo. She can’t lose, because that isn’t how ANH goes, so she has to win. Which brings up complaints of being a Mary Sue, and so forth. (Coincidentally, it’s this need to allow the main characters to escape/win that makes the OT stormtroopers look like bad shots. It’s called plot armor.) Next movie comes along, and RJ knows he can’t just have them fight again, because it’s been too little time for either of them to have trained significantly enough to change the results. And now, few people feel that IX has any tension from a Rey good/Kylo bad standpoint, because she’s essentially beaten him twice. Which is probably why all these theories are going around about Rey turning to the dark side and Ben Solo having to be the “Rise of Skywalker”, so to speak.

I don’t think that any of these reasons are enough to make up for Canto Bight, or the production design, or Rose’s character (or Benício Del Toro), or Holdo, or any other flawed execution of otherwise sound concepts. But it something to consider, whether you like the ST or not. And I have enjoyed both TFA and TLJ, but these are some of the main reasons I believe that they have not risen to their highest potential from a story perspective.

You bring up some interesting points.

And you know I think some of the issues that people have go back further then TFA. You get the sense that they were kinda backed into a corner right from the start.

We don't know much about George's ideas he gave the production team. But we do know that his idea for episode 7 was to have Luke on exile. And have the new Heroine(called Kira at one time) find Luke and convince him to return to the fight. But Michael Arndt, who had been hired by George and Kathy several months before the sale to Disney. He was felt that every time he brought Luke into the story, which at that time would been about the mid point of ep7. Luke took the focus and attention off of the new characters, and you wouldn't care about them anymore. So he proposed that Luke become a kind of MacGuffin for the story. And have him be discovered at the end of the film. Which I'm sure JJ loved. Cause now he had new "mystery box" and bonus! He doesn't have the responsibility of explaining exiled Luke.

And then just my opinion on the "soft reboot" notion. I've never felt like some have that TFA is just rehash/remake of ANH. Sure it has its similarities. But it also has similarities to TPM, ESB, and ROTJ. I just see it as the rhyming, that George talked about years ago.
 
I’d agree with the Arndt thing about not having Luke, though. If the movies really were to move forward, they could just be about the old characters taking the spotlight. But as to the whole “rhyming” thing, I’ve always viewed that as something George used to get out of writing for I, II, and III. I don’t think these movies should “rhyme”. Callbacks to story elements are kind of weak, in my opinion. I’d rather have fresh stories in familiar environments than the same stories in new ones.
 
When I heard about 7, 8, and 9 announced, felt it would have been best to not involve the original cast too much and about halfway through 7 have them bow out completely to allow the new characters to shine. Get one last happlily ever after farewell shot of Luke Han and Leia and they never see them again. I mean I loved the last shot of Return of the Jedi, but IF they had to bring them back all, just do that.

Personally I don't think they should have made sequels in the first place or any more SW films, but if done like the Mandalorian right out of the gate so they could do something not related the Empire/ Rebellion conflict or the Skywalker line. Totally fresh and unencumbered by prior characters or conflicts.
 
For me it's ok that they have brought back the OT cast. The problem is that they did not respect what happened in the OT and just hit the reset button with no explanation. Than Ruin got his shot and he simply took a dump on the original characters and tried to push the new characters so hard, that the absolutely suck (Rey) or became jokes (Fin).
 
Better yet, let’s briefly look at a film where that happens. In the last Fantastic Beasts movie (spoilers ahead for that), we find out that Nagini used to be a human woman with a blood curse, and that Credence is actually a Dumbledore. Far from making the world larger, or making characters stronger, it made the world feel smaller, and the characters weaker. Because now these characters are only significant due to who they are related to. That’s like getting passed over for a promotion due to nepotism.
WHAT?! That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've heard! I'm so glad I didn't watch that rubbish... :lol:
I feel exactly what you mean though. This is why every game cutscene, fan film etc are so cringeworthy to me. People went nuts over that Vader fan film few months back, I haven't rolled my eyes so much since my last demonic possession. How many times can you recycle the same 10 lines of dialogue and try to force some "revelation" or "twist" into something previously established?
If anything I appreciated in R1 it was that the despite the unadulterated fan-service the dialogue between Vader and Krennic was an actual conversation, there was no "technological terror", "something something complete", "your lack of faith" etc.


Regarding the ST in general...since it's been discussed ad nauseum I'll try and respond in a telegram style. I kind of agree with the issue on the mystery box approach. And I actively loathed with passion that after TFA my YT feed recommendation, facebook, whatnot was full of "REY THEORY", "SNOKE EXPLAINED", "LUKE LIGHTSABER HINT?" content. I genuinely did not want Rey to be Kenobi/Skywalker/etc, or Snoke to be something secret whatever baddie. I wanted new, because I liked the new stuff. BUT I wanted something interesting. OK, Rey is nobody. Great. Does that affect her? Barely. OK, Snoke doesn't get a backstory. Give him an interesting motivation other than "I wanna rule the world, muhahahah". There was no real need to start straight back on the cliff either. Cut to 3 months later, Luke and Rey live on the island, Rey is tenacious as she wants to learn and doesn't give up, Luke keeps being hermit Luke but they kind of developed some sort of human relationship over the weeks. Meantime Resistance found a base and got away before the FO got there and there's an interesting adventurous storyline. See? Character depth allowed, no need to write yourself in a corner with slow space chashe either and can expand the story, Luke can still be a secluded hermit.
The big problem with TLJ and Rian Johnson is not that these "secrets" were answered in an anticlimactic way but that it doesn't offer anything esle on top of trolling everyone, and hardly takes the story forward. That's why TROS trailer feels like it wants to do too much stuff seemingly unprepared. BTTF2, Dead Man's Chest, Two Towers, ESB, even AOTC set a few things up for the conclusion of the trilogy. The example I bring is the MasterChef mystery box challenge: contestants get a box of random ingredients and a few staples like eggs, flour, milk, etc and they need to come up with a dish. It's pretty challenging no doubt but the winner is not the one who makes an omelette and throws in one of the ingredients from the box but the one who comes up with a creative dish. That requires real skill.
So all in all I think the biggest and most unforgiveable issue with the ST is that they started making it without having any idea how they're gonna play it out. No plan, no outline, no basic skeleton for the story.
 
So all in all I think the biggest and most unforgiveable issue with the ST is that they started making it without having any idea how they're gonna play it out. No plan, no outline, no basic skeleton for the story.
My thoughts exactly on this trilogy. Ultimately it’s this back and forth of two directors disagreeing on the story while neither has had any idea what to do in the first place.
 
I’d agree with the Arndt thing about not having Luke, though. If the movies really were to move forward, they could just be about the old characters taking the spotlight. But as to the whole “rhyming” thing, I’ve always viewed that as something George used to get out of writing for I, II, and III. I don’t think these movies should “rhyme”. Callbacks to story elements are kind of weak, in my opinion. I’d rather have fresh stories in familiar environments than the same stories in new ones.

True. But at the same time. This is the mono-myth. Or at least Star Wars modern take on it. And that is one story or deed done by many. I heard this somewhere, I can't remember who said it, might have been George, but I don't remember. They said. 'It's not about telling a different story. It's about telling the same story, for a different generation.' And that's the great myth. Every generation, every culture, has the same(ish) story. Undoubtedly that's why George's Strange Magic has some interesting similarities to TFA.
 
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