Lets talk all things Star Wars

[Joek3rr]

Exactly! And that's the problem with Luke taking an aggressive posture against Ben. He learned his lesson of letting anger dictate his actions against Vader. He grew as a character. So why is he again letting anger, fear, hatred, dictate his actions toward Ben? He should know better. It means his character has regressed. Now while I think it's a terrible idea to turn one of the greatest cinematic heroes into a crotchety old hermit that almost murdered his nephew, from a writing standpoint, it can work if you explain the change in Luke that put him in such a state of mind where he would succumb to anger again when he previously learned the negative consequences of it. Luke must've changed somewhere along the way and one of many problems with TLJ is the writers failed to show why he changed.

It's a knee jerk response. He is seeing everyone and everything he loves being destroyed. It blindsides him, cause he isn't expecting to find Ben dreaming about murdering his family. It isn't a regression in character. He has a history of reacting. But seconds after doing so, he looks down at his lightsaber and he's 'whoa what the heck am I doing?'. If thia Luke had ROTJ Luke standing over Ben, he would have split Ben in half before coming to his senses. So this consistent with Luke's character and consistent with what Yoda said about the Dark Side. "Once down the Dark path you start, forever will it dominate your destiny." It means for Luke the Dark Side will always be a thorn in his side.

Just for kicks and giggles....

 

[Bigdaddy]

So....Whats going to happen to Galaxy's Edge?

If the next movie is good, it might save it

J

Does it need saving? I read that it's been a big success.

 

[Joek3rr]

Does it need saving? I read that it's been a big success.

I've heard mixed reports. Some say it's empty. Others say it's packed.

 

[Jaitea]

Latest reports in the past few days say employees are having their hours cut as the attendance figures aren't what they expected & ticket prices have increased

J

 

[Bigdaddy]

I figured with all the cartoons and comics at least kids would be hounding thier parents to take them. I'm glad mine out grew it before the park opened, otherwise I'm sure that's where we'd be taking vacation!

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

I live in Florida. The GE here is opening up at the end of AUG. I really want go but I don't plan on going till Spring. Why? Because I don't want to fight ravenous crowds of Star Wars fans who feel the need to be there opening days and I want to go a little after that when much desired gift shop items are out of stock. So I want to wait till things settle down. This is what I think happened at Disneyland. I think the casual park goer was too scared to hit big crowds. So most people planning trips stayed away till things calmed down.

Ever go to Star Wars Weekends at Disney Studios when they used to have them? The Star Tours ride always had long lines during those weekends. Go any other time of year and you have a relatively short wait time.

Latest reports are saying the crowds are once again high. I think the word is getting out that things are getting back to norms.

 

[Ron]

It's a knee jerk response. He is seeing everyone and everything he loves being destroyed. It blindsides him, cause he isn't expecting to find Ben dreaming about murdering his family. It isn't a regression in character. He has a history of reacting. But seconds after doing so, he looks down at his lightsaber and he's 'whoa what the heck am I doing?'. If thia Luke had ROTJ Luke standing over Ben, he would have split Ben in half before coming to his senses. So this consistent with Luke's character and consistent with what Yoda said about the Dark Side. "Once down the Dark path you start, forever will it dominate your destiny." It means for Luke the Dark Side will always be a thorn in his side.

But that's just it. Shouldn't he know better than to allow a knee jerk response to dictate his actions? Didn't he learn in ROTJ that giving in to hate can lead to the dark side? Why would he make that same mistake again? Luke is better than that.

And a little off point but like Psab said, the future is not written as Luke should know so why would he even consider killing Ben for something he hasn't done yet? And if the future is written than Luke made an even bigger mistake by NOT killing him.

 

[Psab keel]

Is it really tanking? ??

I've heard mixed things on it. I mean even if I despise the ST it would be a shame if even their brand new Star Wars theme park failed too.

Though the petty side of me would also find it hilarious too.

 

[Ron]

Joek3rr just want to say how much I like reading your posts (even if I don't agree ) and I really admire how you stay calm and respectful. I've really enjoyed reading the back and forth between you and Psab keel. I didn't want to insert myself into the debate and I hope you don't mind me doing so but it's just too fun not to.

 

[Joek3rr]

Joek3rr just want to say how much I like reading your posts (even if I don't agree ) and I really admire how you stay calm and respectful. I've really enjoyed reading the back and forth between you and Psab keel. I didn't want to insert myself into the debate and I hope you don't mind me doing so but it's just too fun not to.

The more the merrier!!!!!

 

[Psab keel]

Again using a twitter exchange between a Lucasfilm employee arguing over plot points with a fan not only shows the pathetic state of the franchise, but further illustrates a weak argument for justifying Rian Johnson's ludicrous choices. It's exchanges like that which will eventually destroy the series because people will not be capable of refraining to respond to valid criticism. Twitter has got to be one of the worst things ever invented. All it does is destroy people's careeers. And besides Pablo is clearly missing the point.

Luke being provoked by Vader who threatens to turn Leia is a FAR different thing than standing over his sleeping nephew and drawing his weapon on him when up to that point Ben had yet to commit any crime. Yes Luke considered murdering Ben in his sleep. Plain and simple and to deny that is patently false. There is a world of difference between the two. No I don't buy the excuse that it was a knee jerk response either because it wasn't. Luke didnt draw his weapon quickly as if snapping out of a nightmare as if in response to it. He quietly drew his sword and looked at it and then his sleeping nephew, contemplating murder only to find Ben awake and then realizing what he'd done. If you can't tell the diffference between those two then I dont know what to tell you. So Pablo is not being sincere in his stance.

I can't fathom how anyone could find any joy in this trilogy when our three main heroes have turned out to be such colossal failures.

 

[Bigdaddy]

Has anyone else noticed what a truly awful teacher Yoda is? Within the context of the films everything he and Obi say to Luke is completely suspect. It's almost is if neither of them learned anything by trying to manipulate Anakin decades earlier. The best part of the Luke's arc is that he succeeded despite the garbage double speak training and deceptions Yoda and Kenobi gave him.

 

[Joek3rr]

But that's just it. Shouldn't he know better than to allow a knee jerk response to dictate his actions? Didn't he learn in ROTJ that giving in to hate can lead to the dark side? Why would he make that same mistake again? Luke is better than that.

And a little off point but like Psab said, the future is not written as Luke should know so why would he even consider killing Ben for something he hasn't done yet? And if the future is written than Luke made an even bigger mistake by NOT killing him.

Oh yeah he should know better. And I think he does know better. But knowing and doing are vastly different things.

From my own experiences, with things I've delt with. Luke probably became complacent. He was probably thinking 'I'm a Jedi master, I faced all this in the Emperor's Throne room, I'm above all this acting on my emotions stuff.' Suprise!!!! He wasn't. The moment someone becomes complacent about their struggles, is the moment they set themselves up for failure.

 

[Psab keel]

Plus I find it telling that on many occasions Lucasfilm employees feel the need to go to bat to excuse poor creative choices. I wonder if it's because they actually believe in the writing or it's because they need to tow the company line in order to stay employed.

It becomes taxing to have to read deflection of valid criticism by making accusations of racism etc. That's more an indictment of the overtly sensitive PC culture we live in and sadly it's crept it's way into what is supposed to be escapist entertainment. They don't even bother trying to hide it either.

But I digress.

Plus if you think about it, pushing Jake Skywalker's murder plan aside for a moment, Snoke was really at fault for Ben turning, so why does Jake feel so guilty? It would have been nice to know how Snoke got to him and why Ben turned in the first place. Especially if they plan on redeeming Ben.

 

[Bigdaddy]

That twitter exchange is a hilarious failure of Hidalgo trying to defend that scene!
Edit: why didn't he just answer every question with "Will of the Force!"

 

[Joek3rr]

Plus I find it telling that on many occasions Lucasfilm employees feel the need to go to bat to excuse poor creative choices. I wonder if it's because they actually believe in the writing or it's because they need to tow the company line in order to stay employed.

It becomes taxing to have to read deflection of valid criticism by making accusations of racism etc. That's more an indictment of the overtly sensitive PC culture we live in and sadly it's crept it's way into what is supposed to be escapist entertainment. They don't even bother trying to hide it either.

But I digress.

Plus if you think about it, pushing Jake Skywalker's murder plan aside for a moment, Snoke was really at fault for Ben turning, so why does Jake feel so guilty? It would have been nice to know how Snoke got to him and why Ben turned in the first place. Especially if they plan on redeeming Ben.

Because Luke should have realized what was going on with his nephew. And he feels guilty for drawing his saber on his nephew. He doesn't feel that he worthy of the responsibility of being a Jedi Master.

 

[sztriki]

Plus if you think about it, pushing Jake Skywalker's murder plan aside for a moment, Snoke was really at fault for Ben turning, so why does Jake feel so guilty? It would have been nice to know how Snoke got to him and why Ben turned in the first place. Especially if they plan on redeeming Ben.

THANK YOU!!!!

This has been bugging me since day 1 and I’m pretty sure it was brought up before. I SO hated the idea when I was in the cinema that “it was aaaaall just a big misunderstanding, that’s why Kylo turned evil”. Oh wait no, Snoke has already turned him apparently at that point. I cannot understand why the Luke contemplates to kill Kylo streak was even needed. If Kylo just turned evil, killed a bunch of people and left and Luke felt guilty because it was happenning right in front of his eyes and stayed idle out of pride or overconfidence then we’d have the same result without that out of place character streak. It’s mind boggling how much better this story could have been written if the slightest effort was given to revise the first draft with keeping mostly the same story beats.

 

[Psab keel]

If anything Pablo should have said, "from a certain point of view." Lol

Pablo is literally telling him that he misinterpreted what he saw. As per his argument Luke wasn't trying to murder his nephew. That's a lie. Luke did contemplate murdering someone he's known his whole life. That's not the same thing as trying to defend his sister from the Vader who openly threatened to turn her.

So either Pablo is a total idiot or he is willing to lie in order to justify poor writing.

 

[Psab keel]

Because Luke should have realized what was going on with his nephew. And he feels guilty for drawing his saber on his nephew. He doesn't feel that he worthy of the responsibility of being a Jedi Master.

This raises other points I've addressed many times before too. If Ben was being trained by Luke then what is Luke's relationship to Snoke and how did he get to Ben long enough to turn him? What could Snoke have tempted Ben with that would get him to betray his uncle Luke? It certainly feels imperative to the story and it's omission is one of many aspects that fans, even subconsciously, pick up on. If they'd been answered perhaps there wouldn't be such a disconnect.

This is the kind of question that no one has answers to. Perhaps if will be answered in 9 but I sincerely doubt it.

 

[Bigdaddy]

If anything Pablo should have said, "from a certain point of view." Lol

Pablo is literally telling him that he misinterpreted what he saw. As per his argument Luke wasn't trying to murder his nephew. That's a lie. Luke did contemplate murdering someone he's known his whole life. That's not the same thing as trying to defend his sister from the man who was far more evil than Ben ever was.

So either Pablo is a total idiot or he is willing to lie in order to justify poor writing.

Well he kissed George's butt enough to get a cameo in ROTS so I think it's safe to say he's toeing the company line in order to protect his career.