Lets talk all things Star Wars

[Psab keel]

I'm in the same boat. A few years ago I was more irritated by these things but I'm largely over it because I'm checked out of the series. I just enjoy the exchange between all of you.

Once my personal SW projects and commissions are done I suspect I won't be part of these threads much.

 

[tgtiw]

Totally agree on the first part re no plan and every director doing whatever they fancied.

I think that's my biggest complaint about the new trilogy. Why not map out a story? There is an unbelievable wealth of information and material to build from, but instead, the decision was to just pull it out of their asses as they went along.
And I'll throw out this possible unpopular opinion, I don't think JJ Abrams is a great director. Throughout his body of work, he consistently builds mysteries he has no ability to present a conclusion to. It seems like he just kicks the can further along until the story just fizzles out or the audience loses interest.

 

[Psab keel]

I don't think he's a great director but he is talented. Though often I find his approach to be mentally taxing at times.

 

[sztriki]

I'm in the same boat. A few years ago I was more irritated by these things but I'm largely over it because I'm checked out of the series. I just enjoy the exchange between all of you.

Once my personal SW projects and commissions are done I suspect I won't be part of these threads much.

Well there's that too but in general I mean. That would not have broken the ST for me if the world building from ROTJ was the biggest issue.

I think that's my biggest complaint about the new trilogy. Why not map out a story? There is an unbelievable wealth of information and material to build from, but instead, the decision was to just pull it out of their asses as they went along.
And I'll throw out this possible unpopular opinion, I don't think JJ Abrams is a great director. Throughout his body of work, he consistently builds mysteries he has no ability to present a conclusion to. It seems like he just kicks the can further along until the story just fizzles out or the audience loses interest.

I don't think he's a great director either. He's a good director, not great. He's a good director in a way that he can create genuinely exciting and emotional adventures, visually good looking films (did someone say lens flare?). But he's not a good storyteller, I fully agree. He takes way too big part in scriptwriting where he is not really good at paying off what he sets up.

 

[RodanAZ]

I really like Super 8, and after the Star Trek reboot, I had pretty high hopes for TFA. And on it's own, I was pretty happy with it, even with it's flaws. Unfortunately, TLJ was such an utter failure at moving forward anything that JJ laid out, it really brought to light the flaws in TFA.

And ultimately, it's the writing that fails both efforts. I'm afraid the average moviegoer today is just happy with superficial spectacle, as it seems to be all you get in most films these days.

 

[Psab keel]

Well there's that too but in general I mean. That would not have broken the ST for me if the world building from ROTJ was the biggest issue.


I don't think he's a great director either. He's a good director, not great. He's a good director in a way that he can create genuinely exciting and emotional adventures, visually good looking films (did someone say lens flare?). But he's not a good storyteller, I fully agree. He takes way too big part in scriptwriting where he is not really good at paying off what he sets up.
[/QUOTE.

Absolutely. These are just symptoms of larger issue with these new films.

 

[Darth Fetty]

For the record I’m personally not nearly as bothered by the lack of exposition as I make it out.

I oddly feel the same, and I’m more enjoying the mental exercise of dissecting these details. I’m glad there’s a place like this where we can have thoughtful conversations about something as unique as the political systems of the Star Wars universe.

I’m hoping we could see some glimpse of something like a Palpatine cult of personality in a future movie or TV show taking place during the OT era. All hail the the glory of the Empire and our Emperor.

 

[Joek3rr]

I think that's my biggest complaint about the new trilogy. Why not map out a story? There is an unbelievable wealth of information and material to build from, but instead, the decision was to just pull it out of their asses as they went along.
And I'll throw out this possible unpopular opinion, I don't think JJ Abrams is a great director. Throughout his body of work, he consistently builds mysteries he has no ability to present a conclusion to. It seems like he just kicks the can further along until the story just fizzles out or the audience loses interest.

By all accounts they did map out a story. JJ had said he's continuing what he started in TFA. And that TLJ pretty much went the direction they were thinking. Also Adam Driver has said that he's known from the very beginning how Kylo's story was going to end. And we know that Palpatine's returning has been the works from the very beginning.

But I will say I am a little worried about TROS. This is the first time JJ has really tried to conclude a story. But he could surprise us all.

 

[Ron]

I'm not a fan of JJ, not even aesthetically. I was trying to think of shots that stood out to me in TFA and while there were some nice ones like the TIE fighters flying into the sunset or the X-wings flying just above the lake's surface, there was nothing that jumped out to me as being very memorable the way so many shots in ANH were. And let's not even talk about the jumbled mess that is the resistance attack on Starkiller base especially when compared to the masterfully staged battle of Yavin.

Bit of an aside but I caught the Fathom Events showing of Lawrence of Arabia the other night and while I've seen it in the theater before, its gorgeous cinematography is always such a joy to watch. Every frame is filmed with care. Full shots, wide shots, long shots, two-shots, three-shots, thousand-shots lol. Shots that last longer than a half-second and allow you to actually process and admire what you're seeing. Slow pans and slow zooms. Allowing us to watch actors act in a wide shot without the constant need to zoom in on the face of whichever one happens to be speaking. Why can't every movie look that good? You'd think every filmmaker would want to emulate that movie whenever possible.

 

[Joek3rr]

Oh I'm jealous!

I think you'll find that it's not easy to make a film that is very purposefully and deliberately shot. As opposed to the random feel most films give. There are very few films and filmmakers that can do this. Trying to be as objective as I can. Rian Johnson does it pretty good(compared to JJ). Many of the shots are just eye candy. Like the shot of Rey hearing the Jedi library calling her. I love the wind blowing the fog and her cloak.(very Akira Kurosawa) Rian also likes a good close up, focusing on a character's eyes. Like that shot of Leia looking over the salt flats. Or every close up of Luke on Crait. Oooh gives me chills just thinking about it.

But while Rian's good, there's better. Most obviously there's Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey which kinda set the bar for how a Sci-fi film could look. And before that Forbidden Planet, and before that Metropolis. Christopher Nolan can do it, my gosh Dunkirk is breathtaking. But by far the best director and film, for me, is Dennis Villeneuve's Arrival.(Blade Runner 2049 is up there too!) Arrival is pure visual gold.

 

[Ron]

Definitely. Yeah, I certainly can't expect every movie to reach the bar set by LoA and of course not every movie should go for that specific aesthetic anyway. I just wish filmmakers these days would put a little more effort into their cinematography. At times, a certain shot or image from a movie can speak more clearly than dialogue can and it's those shots and images that really stick with us and can become iconic.

Joek3rr , not to get off-topic but I remember you talking about this subject in I think the Endgame thread about the lack of powerful images in contemporary movies and I remembered thinking you had a good point.

 

[Psab keel]

Oh I agree. While I may not care for the film, there are some really nice looking shots in that movie for sure. I can't think of too many films with very distinct visuals either. They exist but they are few and far between. Kurasawa certainly comes to mind as well as Kubrick, both of which you mentioned. Ridley Scott's cinematography is still some of my favorite. Legend is a very underrated film and while the story is very simplistic it's the production design and the photography that just make it an instant classic in my mind. Couple that with Gladiator and man! What a movie!

Christopher Nolan seems to have a pretty distinct visual style as well as Guillermo Del Toro who has a sharp photographers eye. Whenever I hear Guillermo is involved with a movie my ears perk up because I know his visuals will be worth watching even if I'm not initally drawn to the subject matter which is a testament to his craft.

 

[sztriki]

Loads of good visual directors listed. I’d prob add Sergio Leone, Jean-Pierre Jeunet and John Carpenter too.

Segwaying back to topic I would be so damn curious how ROTJ would have turned out had it been done by Lynch or Spielberg as originally planned.

 

[Psab keel]

Wes Anderson is another that comes to mind.

Yeah it would have likely been very cerebral had Lynch helmed Jedi.

 

[ConvergencePro]

Oh I'm jealous!

I think you'll find that it's not easy to make a film that is very purposefully and deliberately shot. As opposed to the random feel most films give. There are very few films and filmmakers that can do this. Trying to be as objective as I can. Rian Johnson does it pretty good(compared to JJ). Many of the shots are just eye candy. Like the shot of Rey hearing the Jedi library calling her. I love the wind blowing the fog and her cloak.(very Akira Kurosawa) Rian also likes a good close up, focusing on a character's eyes. Like that shot of Leia looking over the salt flats. Or every close up of Luke on Crait. Oooh gives me chills just thinking about it.

I’ll never forgive that hack fraud for putting in that god awful Slow-mo action shot of Luke ducking under the saber swing... I literally looked around the theater in shock because it took me out of the film it was so jarring. Its such a cheap filming technique.

And before anyones pulls the “oh but theres slow mo in ESB” card, that effect was done for an entirely different purpose, to create a dreamlike vision state that blends in naturally, not something out of a Michael Bay film
Same for JJ with his sweeping action shots and those weird “in hyperspace” perspective things he did

 

[Scarecrow Joe]

It would have been extremely cool although highly improbable to have Stanley Kubrick direct a Star Wars film. Maybe it happened in an alternate dimension!

 

[Psab keel]

The Emperor would have been utterly terrifying had Kubrick directed Jedi. The Shining still creeps me out to this day.

 

[Joek3rr]

I’ll never forgive that hack fraud for putting in that god awful Slow-mo action shot of Luke ducking under the saber swing... I literally looked around the theater in shock because it took me out of the film it was so jarring. Its such a cheap filming technique.

And before anyones pulls the “oh but theres slow mo in ESB” card, that effect was done for an entirely different purpose, to create a dreamlike vision state that blends in naturally, not something out of a Michael Bay film
Same for JJ with his sweeping action shots and those weird “in hyperspace” perspective things he did

There are other uses of slow mo in the saga. There are 2 other occasions of slow mo in TLJ. Once in TFA. It's used in ESB as the wampa's arm falls to the ground. And in ANH when Ben is killed.

 

[sztriki]

There are other uses of slow mo in the saga. There are 2 other occasions of slow mo in TLJ. Once in TFA. It's used in ESB as the wampa's arm falls to the ground. And in ANH when Ben is killed.

When is the TFA? Didn’t spot it or make any note.
Strange that in the OT all three slo-mo scenes are created in the edit and were not filmed in slo-mo.

 

[Joek3rr]

When is the TFA? Didn’t spot it or make any note.
Strange that in the OT all three slo-mo scenes are created in the edit and were not filmed in slo-mo.

Its when Ben and Rey are locked together on the edge of the cliff.

Which is odd, because I recall the wampa arm falling being an inserted shot. I remember reading somewhere that Mark inquired how Luke defended himself. And he was told that he just scared the wampa off. But then film came out and it showed Luke cutting off the arm. And Mark was a little irked.(and then there were additional shots added in the SE)