Lets talk all things Star Wars

[Joek3rr]

From Adywan’s ESB: Revisited.

I honestly like his best. Except for the mouth. It doesn't move right I feel.

Anyone ever play Rogue Squadron 3 Rebel Strike? I was just remembering how each mission ended with Vader speaking with the Emperor.

 

[sztriki]

yooooooOOOOOOOO.

It's a little awkward that the upper part of the face is immobile and only the lips move, kind of like those gifs that are mostly static with one moving part, lol, but a definite improvement over Emperor Retaining Water. And I suppose one could argue that it's creepier to have Palpatine not blink. Kind of retains that eerie vibe the original effect had.

I honestly like his best. Except for the mouth. It doesn't move right I feel.

Yea it’s not perfect but dies the job. Blinking or slight movement of the eyes would prob sell it better but I like that the dialogue is back to the original.
And thay he doesn’t look like Monster Mash.

 

[Psab keel]

Eh it certainly looks better if they are going with the footage of Ian inserted but I still prefer the ethereal voice performance of Clive Revell much better. I know it differs in the continuity by having a different actor playing the part but that's just my preference.

A huge part of my wanting the original cuts is because I like having films be a product of their time, warts and all. It's like plastic surgery. Once you start, where do you draw the line? Just clean up what already exists rather than change it wholesale.

 

[Jaitea]

Here's a version I did when I used to frequent 'The Original Trilogy.com'

Trying to get The Emperor to say "Luke Skywalker" instead of "Young Skywalker"

Ady dropped the idea it sounded a bit off, & used the "Young"

J

 

[sztriki]

Here's a version I did when I used to frequent 'The Original Trilogy.com'

Trying to get The Emperor to say "Luke Skywalker" instead of "Young Skywalker"

Ady dropped the idea it sounded a bit off, & used the "Young"

J

That sounds great, wonder why he thought it's off. Where did you get the sound sample for "Luke"?

 

[Jaitea]

It was from the Star Wars: A Musical Journey DVD, hosted by Ian McDiarmid,...where he says Luke a few times

J

 

[vader45]

Well it sounds exactly like it is to me. Dialog inserted somewhere it wasnt. But it was a fantastic effort!

I'm not a fan of the whole stiff emperor. I'm really not the one to get creeped out but stiff emperor does it for me! I feel uncomfortable watching it. But again it's still an A plus effort from Adywan.

Edit: I take back what I said about the Luke inserted. I listened to it a few times again and it's pretty good but I can still tell it wasn't part of the other dialog.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Luke didn't defeat the Dark Side. He overcame it, that one time. But he was alreary using the Dark Side before that. To quote the script for Return of the Jedi.

"Luke looks momentarily toward the Emperor, then back to Vader, and realizes he is using the dark side. He steps back, turns off his lightsaber, and relaxes, driving the hate from his being."

But the Dark Side isn't a one and done thing. Luke didn't get a 'Get Out of Dark Side Free' card after that. If anything, because he's used it once, it's always going to be a problem for him. It's like Anakin. He didn't just suddenly start using the Dark Side. He used it once, then twice, the a third, fourth etc.....until finally in ROTS he falls completely.

I'm pretty sure that once you've face off against Darth Vader and Darth Sidious, and survived, you're pretty much clear of ever falling to the Dark Side. You've already faced the worst you can face, so there's really nothing that would make you go to the Dark Side after that. That's why the whole Dark Empire comics were so ridiculous.

 

[Joek3rr]

I'm pretty sure that once you've face off against Darth Vader and Darth Sidious, and survived, you're pretty much clear of ever falling to the Dark Side. You've already faced the worst you can face, so there's really nothing that would make you go to the Dark Side after that. That's why the whole Dark Empire comics were so ridiculous.

Oh I don't know about that. It's not like the Emperor and Vader are making Luke use the Dark Side. Luke is doing that on own volition. Look at Obi-Wan, the paragon Jedi. He faced Maul and Dooku on several occasions. The only woman he ever loved was killed in front of him, he never came close to the Dark Side.

 

[vader45]

The dark side will always exist as long as the Force is around. So it's not defeated if it's still kicking around. The easy way out with the dark side will always be present in any given situation Luke is faced with.

It has nothing to do with defeating Palpatine or turning Vader. The dark side is still there and the option to use the easy way out is there as well. Just like addiction. Addiction can not be cured. You simply just learn why it's wrong and you constantly fight the urges and to stay away.

Something that is defeated means its no longer around to be fought against again.

 

[Bigdaddy]

I just watched the Harmy OT over the weekend and it sure seems like Obi and Yoda deliberately mislead Luke about his father in order to get him to destroy (kill) Vader. Seems rather unjedi like and maybe leading Luke into temptation.

 

[Joek3rr]

I just watched the Harmy OT over the weekend and it sure seems like Obi and Yoda deliberately mislead Luke about his father in order to get him to destroy (kill) Vader. Seems rather unjedi like and maybe leading Luke into temptation.

I've oft wonder that. They never explicitly say. But then again Obi-Wan doesn't deny it either.....

 

[CT1138]

I think it's because Yoda and Obi-Wan had both given up on Anakin Skywalker, writing him off by his new moniker, and as simply another evil Sith Lord. Anakin ceased to "be" in their eyes, replaced with the murderous Darth Vader. The man they knew couldn't commit the crimes they saw, and so they simply accepted that he was gone. They wanted Luke to believe that same thing. Obi-Wan knew Luke was curious about his father, and I think both he and Yoda deliberately hid the truth about his parentage from Luke so there'd be no emotional baggage when the time came for Luke to destroy the Emperor and Vader. Both Jedi believed that if Luke were to hesitate in killing Darth Vader, he may not survive the confrontation, so they covered up and misled Luke, telling him a truth from a certain point of view.

 

[Ron]

I think it's because Yoda and Obi-Wan had both given up on Anakin Skywalker, writing him off by his new moniker, and as simply another evil Sith Lord. Anakin ceased to "be" in their eyes, replaced with the murderous Darth Vader. The man they knew couldn't commit the crimes they saw, and so they simply accepted that he was gone. They wanted Luke to believe that same thing. Obi-Wan knew Luke was curious about his father, and I think both he and Yoda deliberately hid the truth about his parentage from Luke so there'd be no emotional baggage when the time came for Luke to destroy the Emperor and Vader. Both Jedi believed that if Luke were to hesitate in killing Darth Vader, he may not survive the confrontation, so they covered up and misled Luke, telling him a truth from a certain point of view.

And to further the point, they probably anticipated Luke would do exactly what he did, which is sacrifice himself to save his father whom they believed was beyond saving. I believe they were trying to protect Luke rather than manipulating him to be their "weapon".

 

[Laspector]

I've always wanted to meet someone who saw the Family Guy versions of Star Wars before they saw the movies. I would like to hear their take on the movies.

 

[Psab keel]

I agree. I never really thought of it as Ben and Yoda maliciously lying to Luke for their own ends. I always saw it as his mentors doing what they thought was right by trying to protect him from the truth. Whether Vader was Luke's father or not it's clear that he had to be stopped. Unfortunately Ben had been killed in ANH and Yoda was simply too old and weak (just in context to the OT films narrative only) to be able to stop Vader. Luke was literally the best chance the galaxy had of defeating the Empire once and for all. So having the fact that Vader was Luke's father was a truth that merely complicated the matter. In their minds Vader was gone and there was no saving him after what he'd done. The fate of the galaxy rested on Luke and if he hesitated to take action it could have very well meant the end of everything.

In Empire Vader is seeking Luke out the whole film in order to turn him, not kill him. The entire duel Vader is literally toying with Luke and at any moment he could cut him down with ease. I think not only did Luke learn the devastating truth about Vader being his father, but the fact that Vader asked him to join him really woke Luke to the idea that he'd been played the whole fight. It was then that Luke knew he could have been killed at any moment but he resisted. Why? Because if Vader was his father and he wanted Luke to join him, there must be some good still within him and perhaps he could be brought back to the light.

This factor is what keeps Return of the Jedi as such a strong film thematically in my book. They carried that idea from Empire into Luke's rescue mission of Anakin and Luke almost dies by living out his convictions, proving both his teachers wrong and doing what was thought impossible. When he throws his weapon aside and declares:

"You're wrong your highness. I am a Jedi! Like my father before me!"

It still gives me goosebumps to this day!

 

[vader45]

I agree. I never really thought of it as Ben and Yoda maliciously lying to Luke for their own ends. I always saw it as his mentors doing what they thought was right by trying to protect him from the truth. Whether Vader was Luke's father or not it's clear that he had to be stopped. Unfortunately Ben had been killed in ANH and Yoda was simply too old and weak (just in context to the OT films narrative only) to be able to stop Vader. Luke was literally the best chance the galaxy had of defeating the Empire once and for all. So having the fact that Vader was Luke's father was a truth that merely complicated the matter. In their minds Vader was gone and there was no saving him after what he'd done. The fate of the galaxy rested on Luke and if he hesitated to take action it could have very well meant the end of everything.

In Empire Vader is seeking Luke out the whole film in order to turn him, not kill him. The entire duel Vader is literally toying with Luke and at any moment he could cut him down with ease. I think not only did Luke learn the devastating truth about Vader being his father, but the fact that Vader asked him to join him really woke Luke to the idea that he'd been played the whole fight. It was then that Luke knew he could have been killed at any moment but he resisted. Why? Because if Vader was his father and he wanted Luke to join him, there must be some good still within him and perhaps he could be brought back to the light.

This factor is what keeps Return of the Jedi as such a strong film thematically in my book. They carried that idea from Empire into Luke's rescue mission of Anakin and Luke almost dies by living out his convictions, proving both his teachers wrong and doing what was thought impossible. When he throws his weapon aside and declares:

"You're wrong your highness. I am a Jedi! Like my father before me!"

It still gives me goosebumps to this day!

This was so very well said I had to quote it. I have nothing to add to this conversation. I just loved this post.

 

[Psab keel]

Thank you kindly. I just think those themes are so timeless and so relatable that it's a large part of why those three little movies that could have lasted as part of the cultural lexicon for over 40 years and will continue to do so for generations to come.

 

[DARTH ANIBAL]

Luke didn't kill the Emperor or Vader.

Because Vader stopped him. He was fully intent on relieving Palpatine's headaches for good.

All I've ever argued for is to consider, even on a purely intellectual level, that Rian Johnson's film wasn't the ONLY logical continuation of the story. That they could have done something else and in my opinion something far better. You may not agree, but I just want the acknowledgment that it could have been handled differently. I think that's all the haters have ever wanted was to be acknowledged that we thought it could have been done differently.

That's easy. It absolutely could have been done differently, and I'll concede, even better. I just don't have enough of a problem with how they did it to want/need to discard the whole thing.

Actually Uncle Owen's line is "that's what I'm afraid of."

Beat me to it.

You’re right, pardon me. Forgot that Beru is the expert on the topic.

No, she said it to contrast the life Luke wanted (adventure) versus the life he had (farmer). Her statement wasn't dark, Owen's response was.

The ST should be the WTF trilogy.
Will of The Force, it will solve all the problems.

Okay, that's just funny.

"You're wrong your highness. I am a Jedi! Like my father before me!"

It still gives me goosebumps to this day!

Absolutely. ROTJ has its issues, but the whole Emperor/Vader/Luke dynamic is so great. More than makes up for the low points for me.

 

[CT1138]

Some random thoughts I'd thought I'd write down:

Maul's tale is rather tragic. Sold by his mother, enslaved by a Sith Master who twice discarded him (Sidious never went looking for Maul after his defeat, even after being aware of his survival and then he eventually imprisoned him trying to learn how he survived bisection). Then after his escape, he failed to maintain hold on Mandalore, failed to rebuild his Syndicate, wound up dumped on Malachor, and failed to kill Kenobi multiple times. His life is basically one big story of failure. Plus, assuming that the Trade Federation's surrender and treatise was immediate, you can't say Sidious couldn't sense that Maul was still alive in the bowels of Naboo. So Sidious' abandonment of Maul was immediate as soon as he met Anakin. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Sidious was purposely trying to be rid of Maul after he met Anakin and sensed his power and potential. Let's face it, I doubt Sidious himself would try to take on 2 Jedi by choice. The only reason he took on 4 Council members was because they'd trapped him.

"Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design." The guy plays 4 dimensional chess. Dooku was a placeholder, and a puppet, to be discarded as soon as Sidious felt Anakin was ready to be turned. The Clone Wars were always designed for Palpatine to siphon power from the Senate. Ruling the Empire alongside the most powerful Force wielder ever born was always Sidious' endgame.

When you think about it, Palpatine is one of the most powerful fictional villains ever devised. He ruled an entire Galaxy for over 30 years until his death, including his time as Chancellor, and ensured that even in death, there would be no united Galaxy without him. The New Republic lasted only a few decades before the First Order, made up almost entirely of fanatics loyal to Palpatine's Empire, destroyed it and retook the Galaxy. And even during the New Republic's tenure, the Galaxy was never truly united like it was under the Old Republic, and always faced the looming threat of the Empire resurgent