Lets talk all things Star Wars

[HMSwolfe]

(So, I wrote this whole thing up, a little while ago. I have been sitting on it trying to decide if I should post it or not.)

As you guys know I used to be a huge TCW fan. I loved the show. But as late, I found my distaste for the show growing and growing. And I thought I'd write down, and share some of my thoughts.

(But first, a little forewarning, this is going to be long, and probably a bit ranty. Sorry.)

A bit of background, might be needed first. I was a kid when the Prequels were coming out. But very importantly (for this topic.) I experienced the original Clone Wars. I remember seeing the books and comics, and the toys that came from the Clone Wars Multi-media project. I played the games at a friend's house. I read the Republic Commando books. I thought Genndy's micro series was the coolest thing ever. And ARC troopers were freaking awesome!

But by 2008, my intense Star Wars fandom was starting to wane. After all, being a Star Wars fanatic won't get you a girlfriend, I thought.... The last major Star Wars project that really had my interest (until The Force Awakens), was The Force Unleashed project. I listened to the music, I read the book, I day dreamed over the toys. But without a console or a computer to play it on. I never really got to get into as much as I wanted. And then there was TCW. I remember being mildly excited to see a new Star Wars project. Though I hated the 3D animation. But I never got to see the film or the show. So TCW just kinda passed me by.

It wouldn't be until after the big sale, and TCW's streaming on Netflix would I finally get a chance to watch it. Though it took me two tries. My first time, I gave up half way through season 1. Went back later for a second try, and finally made to season 2. At which point I was hooked. It was awesome and seemed to, at a glance fit okay with everything else.... Oh man had I forgotten my EU lore....

But then, last year, as some of you know already. I kinda "divorced" myself from the new continuity. Which at the time I was pretty thoroughly into. After all I saw it as the legitimate true "canon." (What the heck was I drinking??) The catalyst for this change, was a simple picture that showed the two entirely separate Clone Wars projects. As I looked at it, a wave of nostalgia came over me, as I remembered the old continuity. And the Clone Wars that grew up with. At that moment I made the decision to return back to the EU and start reading some of the stuff I missed out on last time.

But as I returned to the EU, something became very very apparent. TCW (2008) does not fit in the EU. Heck it kinda doesn't fit all that well with the films either. But, for all intents on purposes, TCW basically erased the old Clone Wars project. From an entirely different timeline of events. To drastically different characterizations. To the dead characters not being dead, and the alive characters being killed off before they were supposed to have died.... It was a mess. And while there have been some amazing attempts, both official, and fan made, to rectify TCW with the EU. I find it just doesn't work for me.

Which brings me to now. This year, is the 20th anniversary of the Clone Wars Multi-media project. And what have we gotten to celebrate? Hasbro and LEGO are have to decided celebrate the 20th with figures and sets inspired entirely by.... TCW.... Not the original Clone Wars, who's 20th anniversary it actually is. But TCW!

Now credit where credit is due. Hasbro has given us a few figures loosely inspired by the 2003 show. Specifically for Lucasfilm's 50th. But they tend to come off as cheap, half hearted attempts. Captain Fordo, who unceremoniously gets simply called "ARC Trooper Commander" or "ARC Trooper Captain", Has 'an okay' 3.75 figures. But his 6 inch version is a travesty. Ad it's just a repaint of an ARC trooper from TCW! And other figures from the line-up weren't horrible. Though they were all just repaints. And Aayla Secura isn't wearing the correct outfit.

Then there was Hasbro's Gaming Greats. Where they released the whole of Delta Squad from Republic Commando. Cool right? Until you they were just repaints of Hunter from The Bad Batch. And worse didn't bother to use the correct markings from the game. Instead they were painted how they appeared in, you guessed it, TCW....

It's really frustrating. I really used to like TCW. But I continually find myself preferring the old Clone Wars, over TCW. And it's incredibly irritating how it has basically erased, and replaced the original Clone Wars. To the point where they can't even put out some toys for it's 20th Anniversary.

The microseries is great because it knows exactly what it is and doesn’t try to be anything more. Simple vignettes, killer animation, fun. That’s it. No need to “build a world” or “set up future shows”. It’s just “this is the kind of stuff that was going on during the wars”.

Also, Fordo is awesome and always will be.

(side note: Anakin’s vision in the cave is hands-down the best “force vision” depicted in any media so far, and probably always will be at this point.)

 

[Joek3rr]

The microseries is great because it knows exactly what it is and doesn’t try to be anything more. Simple vignettes, killer animation, fun. That’s it. No need to “build a world” or “set up future shows”. It’s just “this is the kind of stuff that was going on during the wars”.

Also, Fordo is awesome and always will be.

(side note: Anakin’s vision in the cave is hands-down the best “force vision” depicted in any media so far, and probably always will be at this point.)

That vision has more thematic material then the whole 3 episodes of the Mortis arc. It is so powerful. Yet simple. Less is really more.

And beyond the micro series. There was the comics, books, web strips, video games, fake in-universe news and intel reports. All of which attempted to cover the Clone Wars in near real time between the two films. It was massive and ambitious project. And it's been basically completely overwritten. Such a travesty.

 

[Psab keel]

I still love the Gendy Clone Wars shorts. They were perfect mini stories that captured the adventurous spirit of Star Wars and I really loved the animation style. I never got into Filoni's Clone Wars, but Gendy's? Still a really entertaining mini series!

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

There was stuff in there that made far more sense than things that came after in the main series. Asajj's facial markings and eyes were better. Her origin, from the comics, was far better than the debasing and ruining of the Nightsisters the main series (I'm looking at you, Katie) perpetrated. Obi-Wan in his own personalized Republic trooper armor. Those ARC Troopers rather than the ones in the main series. I totally agree with you, HMSwolfe -- Fordo rocks. He and the other ARCs in that series for the ARC Commander Trantos costume I'm working on. This guy, from the ancillary material:

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

In other news, I've had some plane rides and car trips recently that let my brain work on background stuff for extended hours and I found myselve contemplating landing gear.

Luke's landspeeder has none. In any way, shape, or form. Same seems to hold for all of the other speeders throughout the OT. As for starfighters, TIEs and the B-Wing don't have any. TIE fighters are held in racks with launch rails, but we've also seen them sitting on their wing edges (which I have Opinions™ about). We only see A-Wings landed in the overhead matte painting, which doesn't let us see landing gear, but the miniatures don't have much in the way of surface features to allow for such. The Tantive IV and Star Destroyers presumably "land". The latter might have lighters, but to convey the whole damn crew on or off would be an ordeal, so hard-docked gangways make more sense. We saw the one in Rogue One hovering low over the city on Jedda.

Dipping into the Prequels, things are equally inconsistent. The Radiant VII has landing gear. The Naboo N-1, Alpha-3 Nimbus (V-Wing), and none of the Jedi starfighters show any sign of landing gear. The Sith Infiltrator, all of the larger Naboo ships, and the shuttles all have landing legs, but many seem too spindly to support the weight of their respective craft.

Which leads me back round to X-Wings, Y-Wings, and the Millennium Falcon... The practical setpieces could have been suspended from the stage ceiling(s). The main (rear) landing gear on the X-Wing makes no sense, as it retracts up into the lower engine pair. The Y-Wing's front landing leg is an awkward fit for the ventral blister on the cockpit. All in all, I feel they would've worked better sitting on repulsor cushions like the B-Wing and N-1.

And then there's the Falcon. I was contemplating the three-gear to five-gear conversion (or, going by Solo, five to three and back to five). While I like the balance of the five-gear version, I also like the streamlined elegance of the three-gear version. At the same time, I don't know that a freighter/tug should be either. And then I remembered the problem my old MPC model kit had, and that the setpiece in ANH had. If you breathe on it funny, it will tip to the cockpit quadrant. Not something I see being released to the commercial spacecraft market.

So what if it, and the other ships with too-spindly landing gear, do sit on repulsor cushions, and the landing gear is there to take some of the load? Not like a backup -- Luke's junker third-hand landspeeder has reliable enough repulsorlift that even with the Sandpeople dismantling it, it was unperturbed. I'd still like to see the Falcon properly docked through the lateral locks, with the ship settled on its legs a bit below-grade.

Nothing terribly important or insightful, but Stuff I found myself thinking about.

 

[Rawktrooper]

even little Anakin's pod racer had no landing gear. at all. it was consistently on repulsor cushions. or else sitting on blocks i would assume.. the engines didnt even have little engine stands. So when everything was powered down, some kind of technology kept the whole racer up off the ground. or perhaps just the repulsor was running... like your battery keeps your clock and radio presets etc..
interesting topic!

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Dipping into the Prequels, things are equally inconsistent. The Radiant VII has landing gear. The Naboo N-1, Alpha-3 Nimbus (V-Wing), and none of the Jedi starfighters show any sign of landing gear. The Sith Infiltrator, all of the larger Naboo ships, and the shuttles all have landing legs, but many seem too spindly to support the weight of their respective craft.

In AOTC the Jedi starfighter had landing gear.

 

[Joek3rr]

I just recently finished Jedi: Mace Windy from 2003. That might just be my favorite Star Wars comic. I love how it explores why the Jedi are in the war. And how it's not an easy decision they made.

Also, I'm pretty sure George read the comic. As Padmé practically quotes this Jedi in Revenge of the Sith

 

[Laspector]

Something I've always wondered about, did Han and Chewie just live on the Falcon? From The Holiday Special I guess we can assume that Chewie had a home, but did Han have a house or an apartment somewhere?

 

[HeartBlade]

Something I've always wondered about, did Han and Chewie just live on the Falcon? From The Holiday Special I guess we can assume that Chewie had a home, but did Han have a house or an apartment somewhere?

Given the fact that he was a smuggler and loves his ship, wouldnt be surprised if he just lived in it. Its big and probably has a nice bed so he can save the money from lodging. Im also guessing the job requires Han to move around and having a permanent address probably isnt the smartest thing for someone transporting illicit goods across the Empire’s borders.

I do think by TFA though, Han likely had his own place with Leia and after leaving, maybe crashed couches or their own ship while looking for the falcon.

Kind of old news but how much do we really know about Lucas’ original treatments for the sequel trilogy? A youtube short claimed Lucas’ treatment had Maul be the head of Black Sun and was the main threat with apprentice Darth Talon. The ST was focused on Anakin’s grandkids, Luke trying to establish a new order, and Leia trying to restore order and ultimately becoming Supreme Chancellor at the end.

While feasible, I remember the leak that Lucas wanted to focus on the whills and the “world of the midiclorians.” Not sure how much stock I can put into this story tbh.

 

[Joek3rr]

Given the fact that he was a smuggler and loves his ship, wouldnt be surprised if he just lived in it. Its big and probably has a nice bed so he can save the money from lodging. Im also guessing the job requires Han to move around and having a permanent address probably isnt the smartest thing for someone transporting illicit goods across the Empire’s borders.

I do think by TFA though, Han likely had his own place with Leia and after leaving, maybe crashed couches or their own ship while looking for the falcon.

Kind of old news but how much do we really know about Lucas’ original treatments for the sequel trilogy? A youtube short claimed Lucas’ treatment had Maul be the head of Black Sun and was the main threat with apprentice Darth Talon. The ST was focused on Anakin’s grandkids, Luke trying to establish a new order, and Leia trying to restore order and ultimately becoming Supreme Chancellor at the end.

While feasible, I remember the leak that Lucas wanted to focus on the whills and the “world of the midiclorians.” Not sure how much stock I can put into this story tbh.

George Lucas’ Episode VII

Everything we know about George’s vision for the seventh Star Wars movie.

medium.com

This article probably does the best at laying out what we know.

From what I've gathered. There seems to have been two distinct ideas. One, the treatment he wrote with Michael Arndt, that was sold to Disney. That one set 30ish years after ROTJ. Has a young heroine going on a journey to find Luke, who is all dark and depressed. Han and Leia's son turns to the dark side. There's an evil master mind dubbed "Uber."

Then this other one, set only a few years after ROTJ. With Maul, and Talon. And Luke and Leia working to put everything back together. George gives this as his sequel plan in the book Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005. In there George claims the reason he brought Maul back in TCW was set up the Sequels. (Pretty confident that's not true at all.) And he claims that he would have revealed that Leia was actually the Chosen One.... *Eye roll*

 

[HeartBlade]

George Lucas’ Episode VII

Everything we know about George’s vision for the seventh Star Wars movie.

medium.com

This article probably does the best at laying out what we know.

From what I've gathered. There seems to have been two distinct ideas. One, the treatment he wrote with Michael Arndt, that was sold to Disney. That one set 30ish years after ROTJ. Has a young heroine going on a journey to find Luke, who is all dark and depressed. Han and Leia's son turns to the dark side. There's an evil master mind dubbed "Uber."

Then this other one, set only a few years after ROTJ. With Maul, and Talon. And Luke and Leia working to put everything back together. George gives this as his sequel plan in the book Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005. In there George claims the reason he brought Maul back in TCW was set up the Sequels. (Pretty confident that's not true at all.) And he claims that he would have revealed that Leia was actually the Chosen One.... *Eye roll*

Thanks Joek3rr that clears things up.

First draft is similar to what we got in ST in terms of broad strokes although the path to get there and the character development after is probably far different. Also too vague to judge.

I really dont think the second idea is bad and has some very interesting concepts to play with. While stating Leia is the actual “the one” is stupid but tht was Anakin and he did bring balance by eliminating Palps and himself to destroy the Sith; I think the idea that Leia is the only one that can bring “peace” back to the Galaxy makes sense.

Luke is a jedi but is a farm boy and isnt exactly well-versed in politics or negotiating. Furthermore, as a jedi, he is the sword to defend the innocent but shouldnt use his powers to “force” other planets and systems to yield in the name of peace as he would essentially be doing what Vader did. Han is similarly a “nerf herder.”

Leia is the only one of the trio with both legitimate authority (as a leader of the Rebellion) and actually has experience with diplomacy so can actually help unite the planets that have been divided following the Empire’s collapse so having her be the actual key to reuniting the galaxy makes sense and would also be a cool thing for her to do (essentially following her mom’s footsteps by working in politics).

Then again, even if given the second script to current Lucasfilm, they will likely still screw it up.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

In AOTC the Jedi starfighter had landing gear.

Just re-checked. So they did. As well as the later versions of those in CW with the centerline droid socket. That got me. And the ROTS ones... well, the only time we really seem them landed was when Obi-Wan and Anakin deliberately slid them out on the hangar deck of the Invisible Hand, so I don't know. I know we saw them in CW, but I don't remember specific episodes to go looking.

Something I've always wondered about, did Han and Chewie just live on the Falcon? From The Holiday Special I guess we can assume that Chewie had a home, but did Han have a house or an apartment somewhere?

We saw the quarters in both the old Behind the Magic CD-ROM and -- questionably -- in Solo (Lando's main cabin was fine -- the closet for his capes was spatially problematic). There is almost certainly a similar cabin to the starboard quarter, opposite. Maybe with more bunks, for the rest of the conjectural crew. There was presumed to be a small galley on the coreward side near that cabin (opposite side from the equipment room seen in Empire). A lot of the features of the YT-1300 are presumed symmetrical or quasi-symmetrical. Lateral docking collars, top hatches, lower boarding ramps, circumferential corridor, main hold...The enginery occupied a lot of the rear quarter, but there's still room for cabins.

And as for the post-ROTJ potential stories... The immediate-post-ROTJ stuff sounds like good fodder for an animated series, to avoid having to deepfake every episode (unless they got likealooks to fill in). And the 30-years-on stuff wasn't awful. It just needed to have not been done the way it was, or by George. The idea of the characters finding themselves in a position where they have to delve into what the Force even is is compelling, but it would have to be done with great care and skill, and I don't think we've had that since 1980.

 

[Joek3rr]

Just re-checked. So they did. As well as the later versions of those in CW with the centerline droid socket. That got me. And the ROTS ones... well, the only time we really seem them landed was when Obi-Wan and Anakin deliberately slid them out on the hangar deck of the Invisible Hand, so I don't know. I know we saw them in CW, but I don't remember specific episodes to go looking.

"Sabotage", "The Rise of Clovis", "Voices", and "The Bad Batch", are the episodes listed as having Eta-2s.

The Incredible Cross-sections shows landing pads up in the front. The Hasbro toy also had them there.

 

[Somerset]

Here they are:

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

That thing skipped every leg day. Those flimsy landing gear don't look like they could support that thing.

 

[blewis17]

That thing skipped every leg day. Those flimsy landing gear don't look like they could support that thing.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Hence my notion of the landing gear, where present, serving more to stabilize than support.

 

[batguy]

They would need stupid-strong alloys in the SW universe in general.

 

[blewis17]

They would need stupid-strong alloys in the SW universe in general.

You mean like Beskar? Durasteel?