Lets talk all things Star Wars

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Yup. I had that moment in high school. I had a 1:48 F-14 from earlier that I wasn't happy with the paint job on, so I hacked off the engines to turn into a double-barreled arm cannon well before Michael Bay did it with Ironhide, and when I was looking at the leftover front-end stuff to see if there was anything I could do with it, I though about cutting out the cockpit bulge and linking the remaining portions of fuselage together directly, and all of a sudden I saw it. I wasn't sure what else had been used, but was pretty sure space shuttle boosters were the source of the engines. The 1:144 ones I had looked like they might be about the right size.

 

[Laspector]

Whatever happened to Tank? He left the same time Biggs did.

 

[Joek3rr]

Yup. I had that moment in high school. I had a 1:48 F-14 from earlier that I wasn't happy with the paint job on, so I hacked off the engines to turn into a double-barreled arm cannon well before Michael Bay did it with Ironhide, and when I was looking at the leftover front-end stuff to see if there was anything I could do with it, I though about cutting out the cockpit bulge and linking the remaining portions of fuselage together directly, and all of a sudden I saw it. I wasn't sure what else had been used, but was pretty sure space shuttle boosters were the source of the engines. The 1:144 ones I had looked like they might be about the right size.

Oh that's cool. Can the plastic be heated and bent a little? One of the subtle looks of the A-wing, is that engines taper slightly. Toys often just make them straight. As did the old schematic from the first round of reference books.

 

[Joek3rr]

Whatever happened to Tank? He left the same time Biggs did.

Janek Sunber

Janek Sunber was a native of Tatooine and a boyhood friend of Luke Skywalker, nicknamed "Tank" by his friends for his large frame. Growing up on a moisture farm, he set his sights on the skies and applied to become an Imperial pilot. His test scores were not sufficient, so instead he joined the...

starwars.fandom.com

 

[Ron]

Yup. If the F-14 wasn't already the coolest airplane ever

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I always had a problem with that take on Tank. And Biggs. There was an assumption made at some point, I think by West End Games, that the "academy" spoken of was an Imperial academy, when the actual dialogue cut in the final edit much, much more heavily implies an Outer Rim merchantmarine academy. Biggs was the newly-appointed second made to a freighter, and was going to jump ship to join the Rebellion, rather than "wait around to be drafted into Imperial service".

Ultimately, I'm fine with the scene being cut. I like it, and it needs to be in the story -- but a couple months earlier at the very least. Biggs needed time to report to his ship, go AWOL at a suitable port of call, which might not be the first one, make contact with the rebels, make it through their screening, get checked out on the T-65, fly some combat missions, get bumped up to Red Squadron, and get enough clout to be listened to when vouching for Luke's piloting ability. It could not have been two days prior to their reunion on Yavin IV.

And I am mad the government has prohibited private sales of retired F-14s to potential collectors, due to them still being in use by countries like Iran. They don't want planes or parts going to now-enemy nations. I have always wanted a B, reconfigured for civilian transport (baggage pods, fixed "drop" tanks, cannon and military-grade radar removed, etc.), painted in one prototype's tiger-stripe paint scheme to honor Grumman's WWII Naval interceptor, the Tigercat.

I never tried to make it work with the pieces I had on-hand. I didn't have a second F-14 for the lower hull, I didn't have anything suitable to use for the canopy or rear fuselage... I just noted the likelihood that was what was used for the main hull of the A-wing.

Thinking now, I wonder if the taper means they used AMT's Enterprise model kits for the engines. I can't readily think of anything else that has a tapered-cylinder shape like that at the time.

 

[alluvial damper]

I always had a problem with that take on Tank. And Biggs. There was an assumption made at some point, I think by West End Games, that the "academy" spoken of was an Imperial academy, when the actual dialogue cut in the final edit much, much more heavily implies an Outer Rim merchantmarine academy. Biggs was the newly-appointed second made to a freighter, and was going to jump ship to join the Rebellion, rather than "wait around to be drafted into Imperial service".

Mirrors how I feel about the Snowspeeder

It's _NOT_ a T-47 ("T-forty- seven" in the script)

That is some kinda "heavy equipment" that's not important compared to the "smaller modules"

Whatever Luke and the medical droid (2-1B <-- that's made up as well, I think?) are talking about it's surely not speeders

I believe this is a West End creation too

Cheers,

Ole

 

[Joek3rr]

I always had a problem with that take on Tank. And Biggs. There was an assumption made at some point, I think by West End Games, that the "academy" spoken of was an Imperial academy, when the actual dialogue cut in the final edit much, much more heavily implies an Outer Rim merchantmarine academy. Biggs was the newly-appointed second made to a freighter, and was going to jump ship to join the Rebellion, rather than "wait around to be drafted into Imperial service".

Though the it would be very likely they would have been Imperialized. And Luke mentions Biggs has been hanging around starfleet. And Biggs says they are going to take their frigate. Which kinda suggest something bigger then just merchant marine.... maybe?

Ultimately, I'm fine with the scene being cut. I like it, and it needs to be in the story -- but a couple months earlier at the very least. Biggs needed time to report to his ship, go AWOL at a suitable port of call, which might not be the first one, make contact with the rebels, make it through their screening, get checked out on the T-65, fly some combat missions, get bumped up to Red Squadron, and get enough clout to be listened to when vouching for Luke's piloting ability. It could not have been two days prior to their reunion on Yavin IV.

And I am mad the government has prohibited private sales of retired F-14s to potential collectors, due to them still being in use by countries like Iran. They don't want planes or parts going to now-enemy nations. I have always wanted a B, reconfigured for civilian transport (baggage pods, fixed "drop" tanks, cannon and military-grade radar removed, etc.), painted in one prototype's tiger-stripe paint scheme to honor Grumman's WWII Naval interceptor, the Tigercat.

That would be crazy awesome!

I never tried to make it work with the pieces I had on-hand. I didn't have a second F-14 for the lower hull, I didn't have anything suitable to use for the canopy or rear fuselage... I just noted the likelihood that was what was used for the main hull of the A-wing.

Thinking now, I wonder if the taper means they used AMT's Enterprise model kits for the engines. I can't readily think of anything else that has a tapered-cylinder shape like that at the time.

That ribbing.... Would there be drop tanks on a model plane? Some of those taper.

 

[Joek3rr]

Mirrors how I feel about the Snowspeeder

It's _NOT_ a T-47 ("T-forty- seven" in the script)

That is some kinda "heavy equipment" that's not important compared to the "smaller modules"

Whatever Luke and the medical droid (2-1B <-- that's made up as well, I think?) are talking about it's surely not speeders

I believe this is a West End creation too

Cheers,

Ole

I could see why they would assume that. The medical droid says that would take some time to evacuate the T-47s. Considering that Luke is flying a speeder, and they'll be some of the last to load.

 

[alluvial damper]

I get the impression from ESB that it's mostly personel that's being evacuated as the Empire almost caught them by surprise (thanx Ozzel!)

No idea what the modules are, but I never thought they were vehicles of any kind

Besides, the Snowspeeder is not a "heavy equipment", it's a tiny two-seater hauler converted to the rebels needs. It's minuscule compared to what we see in the SW universe

Anyway, here's the part from the script. Assuming the convo is about the snowspeeder is ludicrous, imho


INT. REBEL BASE - MEDICAL CENTER

Luke dresses in readiness for the evacuation as his attending medical
droid stands by.

MEDICAL DROID
Sir, it will take quite a while
to evacuate the T-forty- sevens.

LUKE
Well, forget the heavy equipment.
There's plenty of time to get the
smaller modules on the transports.

MEDICAL DROID
Take care, sir.

LUKE
Thanks.

 

[Joek3rr]

I get the impression from ESB that it's mostly personel that's being evacuated as the Empire almost caught them by surprise (thanx Ozzel!)

No idea what the modules are, but I never thought they were vehicles of any kind

I've always assumed they were a reference to the container carried on the GR-75s

And that the Snowspeeders would have been loaded into their own containers, then onto the GR-75s.

Besides, the Snowspeeder is not a "heavy equipment", it's a tiny two-seater hauler converted to the rebels needs. It's minuscule compared to what we see in the SW universe

Anyway, here's the part from the script. Assuming the convo is about the snowspeeder is ludicrous, imho


INT. REBEL BASE - MEDICAL CENTER

Luke dresses in readiness for the evacuation as his attending medical
droid stands by.

MEDICAL DROID
Sir, it will take quite a while
to evacuate the T-forty- sevens.

LUKE
Well, forget the heavy equipment.
There's plenty of time to get the
smaller modules on the transports.

MEDICAL DROID
Take care, sir.

LUKE
Thanks.

 

[Treadwell]

F-14 models were indeed used to kitbash an early mockup of the A-Wing, but the final effects models were made from scratch.

 

[Joek3rr]

On the subject of A-wings. I always thought it was funny that the A-wings were in Green Squadron, yet all the ships we see are painted red.....

 

[Axlotl]

On the subject of A-wings. I always thought it was funny that the A-wings were in Green Squadron, yet all the ships we see are painted red.....

That's because George didn't understand the way the WWII squadrons he was trying to emulate were organized.

 

[Axlotl]

That's because George didn't understand the way the WWII squadrons he was trying to emulate were organized.

I've explained it before, but what the heck. Here it is again.

A squadron would be broken down into elements: lead element, top cover, low cover, left flank, right flank, etc., typically 4 planes in an element, as fighters always flew and fought in pairs (there wouldn't have been a Red 5).
Each element was given a different color as a radio call sign. Let's say lead element was given the call sign "White". White 1 would be the squadron leader, White 2 would be his wingman. Covering them would be White 3, and his wingman White 4. So if you were flying rear guard, say Green 4 (Tail-end Charlie) and you heard over the radio "White 3, bogies 2-o'clock high", you knew that the lead element had spotted enemy fighters. Then if you heard "Gold 1, I'm on 'em", you knew that top cover (Gold element) had seen them also, and were moving to intercept.

The colors of the call signs had nothing to do with the colors of the squadron, or the markings on the planes. You might be Red 4 today, and Blue 3 tomorrow. Every squadron was broken down the same way. Each squadron had their own radio frequency, so you could only talk to the guys in your own squadron. Your squadron leader could talk to the other squadron leaders, and they had their own call signs for that, which also changed daily.

 

[alluvial damper]

I've always assumed they were a reference to the container carried on the GR-75sView attachment 1654295

And that the Snowspeeders would have been loaded into their own containers, then onto the GR-75s.

I don't do SW outside the movies so that's just too convoluted for me

 

[Halliwax]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1610483087057780738

Never knew that

 

[Joek3rr]

I don't do SW outside the movies so that's just too convoluted for me

You can see them in the films. Though the containers are not very clear.

 

[Joek3rr]

I've explained it before, but what the heck. Here it is again.

A squadron would be broken down into elements: lead element, top cover, low cover, left flank, right flank, etc., typically 4 planes in an element, as fighters always flew and fought in pairs (there wouldn't have been a Red 5).
Each element was given a different color as a radio call sign. Let's say lead element was given the call sign "White". White 1 would be the squadron leader, White 2 would be his wingman. Covering them would be White 3, and his wingman White 4. So if you were flying rear guard, say Green 4 (Tail-end Charlie) and you heard over the radio "White 3, bogies 2-o'clock high", you knew that the lead element had spotted enemy fighters. Then if you heard "Gold 1, I'm on 'em", you knew that top cover (Gold element) had seen them also, and were moving to intercept.

The colors of the call signs had nothing to do with the colors of the squadron, or the markings on the planes. You might be Red 4 today, and Blue 3 tomorrow. Every squadron was broken down the same way. Each squadron had their own radio frequency, so you could only talk to the guys in your own squadron. Your squadron leader could talk to the other squadron leaders, and they had their own call signs for that, which also changed daily.

Yeah ... And it makes for maddening inconsistencies. Because in the first film ships are painted their squadron "colors". But in the later films the colors are irrelevant. The Y-wings are "grey squadron", even though they are yellow. The ARC-170s in the beginning of ROTS are in "gold squadron" even though they're red.

They should have gone with squadron markings, which was a more the common thing to do. Sometimes on the engine cowling, sometimes on the tail.

The EU actually did that. Giving Green Squadron a logo. That was painted in the tails of a few toys.

 

[Axlotl]

Yeah ... And it makes for maddening inconsistencies. Because in the first film ships are painted their squadron "colors". But in the later films the colors are irrelevant. The Y-wings are "grey squadron", even though they are yellow. The ARC-170s in the beginning of ROTS are in "gold squadron" even though they're red.

They should have gone with squadron markings, which was a more the common thing to do. Sometimes on the engine cowling, sometimes on the tail.

The EU actually did that. Giving Green Squadron a logo. That was painted in the tails of a few toys. View attachment 1654588

But, see, those should be group markings.
Every group had an identifying color scheme. Squadrons within them usually didn't.
There were some exceptions, like Zemke's Wolf pack, but even in cases like those the squadron with, say, blue stripes, wasn't called Blue Squadron, they were called 2nd squadron, and when they were out on a mission they were broken up into elements and given different color call signs. So while they all had blue stripes on their planes, you'd still have a Red 1, a Gold 2, a White 3, etc.

George just didn't know what he was hearing when he watched the old WWII movies, and just made up stuff that sounded good to him. And fans and EU authors have been twisting themselves into pretzels ever since, trying to make it make sense.
if only he'd called them Red Group and Gold Group...