Lets talk all things Star Wars
Joek3rr
Master Member
Revenge of the Sith has so many interesting tid bits to see. Here's one I just noticed. Obi-Wan's Venator has different hanger doors then all the rest. You can see that just behind the all gray boxes is where the door was placed. The other Venators the whole red strip opens up. I believe this has recently peompted Star Wars Armada to add a Venator II class.
HeartBlade
Sr Member
Revenge of the Sith was interesting as an idea. General Grevious was foreshadowing Vader with his trouble breathing and the fact that he was a mortal transformed into a machine like Vader will be. I do think the 3 villains all foreshadowed aspects of Vader.
The problem again is execution.
They all can do that. They can control whether to open the whole bay or just a portion. For example, if you need to launch your entire complement of fighters, you'd open the entire bay so they could launch en masse. Since one fighter was leaving they just opened part of it. There are also launch bays on the sides and bottom as well. The coolest thing that people miss in the opening battle, is that there's a scene where they have a SPHA walker (artillery from AOTC that fires on the Trade Fed ships taking off) firing from the ventral hangar! (confirmed in one of the ROTS reference books)
Joek3rr
Master Member
That's what I used to think too. But as I was comparing to the two ships. I realized that the others don't have that smaller hanger. It's just not there.
I've added another line to kinda point out the difference. I don't if that helps. On the ship at beginning (and all the other for that matter) there's these two gray box like shapes. A smaller pair and a larger pair. You can see the smaller pair on Obi-Wan's ship. But where the larger pair should be, that's where the doors were put in. What's funny, is the next shot, where we see Obi-Wan in the cockpit. We can see the ship he just left over his should, and those hanger doors are now gone. And they've used a standard Venator model with both of those gray boxes.
Yeah that is awesome. But is supposed to be a SPHA-T in the hanger or just a SPHA-T laser cannon?
You might be right. Maybe Obi-Wan's flagship was modified or a variant? I've never read anything saying one way or the other.
Yeah that was a SPHA-T firing out somehow. I thought it was mentioned in the Cross Sections book, but I don't see it. I'll have to look. The only way that would work though is if they somehow had the back of the SPHA-T jacked up to allow it to aim out because the main gun can't depress that far. This is mentioned on the SPHA-T Wookieepedia page, but it just cites ROTS.
Yeah that was a SPHA-T firing out somehow. I thought it was mentioned in the Cross Sections book, but I don't see it. I'll have to look. The only way that would work though is if they somehow had the back of the SPHA-T jacked up to allow it to aim out because the main gun can't depress that far. This is mentioned on the SPHA-T Wookieepedia page, but it just cites ROTS.
Joek3rr
Master Member
I have a copy of the most recent edition.
I don't know if all the editions say that. I know Battlefront II (Modern) shows a big gun. Not that they are always accurate. In fact their Venator has the small hanger doors. But doesn't have those gray box like shapes. Almost like it's an idealized, version with some features from the TCW Venator.
CB2001
Master Member
Except years later, CP30 and Yoda are both considered iconic. The Ewoks, most are still on the fence about them. Jar Jar Binks? Other than the Jar Jar is a Sith fan theory and the fact that he pushed advancements in digital characters forward a bit, I don't think I've heard of any fans reflecting back on Jar Jar in the same positive light (even more so since he gave Palpatine his power over the senate in Episode 2). But, that's just me. Keep in mind, even Lucas himself stated, "I've gone too far in several places" when he was looking at the rough cut of the first film.
I haven't watched it yet, but I never had any problem with Jar Jar. I think if most of us saw the original SW as adults, we'd be complaining about how annoying C-3PO is. He's not quite as bad, but still. I also like Ewoks!
I unapologetically love Ewoks and agree that Jar Jar was the least of TPM's issues. Though Lucas's take on Yoda is really, really strange. I've never known anyone to say that character was ever annoying or too childish. No kid or adult fan, no matter the generation. Yoda is beloved by everyone.
Like I said, my interest in this video had to do with hearing Robin Williams hilarious take on Star Wars. Just astoundingly funny!
Like I said, my interest in this video had to do with hearing Robin Williams hilarious take on Star Wars. Just astoundingly funny!
HeartBlade
Sr Member
I dont hate Jar Jar as a racist caricature which he has been accused of but I do not like the character either.
He isnt funny if Lucas was going for the slap stick comedy like a cartoon and more importantly, he really has no role in the story. In episode 1, he supposedly helps convince the Gungans to fight alongside Amidala but he was just there and wasnt giving an impassioned speech or anything. In Episode 2, he is the one that gives emergency powers to Palpatine which gives him some relevance.
I guess Jar Jar just didnt have much relevance to the films and his relative prominence in episode 1 was weird. Its also probably why the Darth Jar Jar theory is so fascinating, its because it makes Jar Jar relevant.
He isnt funny if Lucas was going for the slap stick comedy like a cartoon and more importantly, he really has no role in the story. In episode 1, he supposedly helps convince the Gungans to fight alongside Amidala but he was just there and wasnt giving an impassioned speech or anything. In Episode 2, he is the one that gives emergency powers to Palpatine which gives him some relevance.
I guess Jar Jar just didnt have much relevance to the films and his relative prominence in episode 1 was weird. Its also probably why the Darth Jar Jar theory is so fascinating, its because it makes Jar Jar relevant.
Darth Lars
Master Member
Lucas was making up his own narrative here to excuse his own failings ...
I'd say that there was a change in Episode One from previous SW movies, of which Jar-Jar was just the tip of the ice-berg: The idea that other sentient species ("aliens") in the Star Wars universe were overall a little bit goofy, for comedic effect.
This actually started already with the Special Editions: with the changes to Mos Eisley in particular and then the "Jedi Rocks" musical number.
If only George Lucas had taken the criticism of the Special Editions properly, understood it, and not been so out-of-touch, I'd think that he wouldn't have taken Jar-Jar and other "aliens" quite as far has he did.
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That was the brilliance of Yoda as a character. The moment Luke met Yoda was when his Jedi training began. He was testing Luke's patience and selflessness. Would Luke be patient and helpful to a seemingly innocent creature? This is a test of Luke's maturity to see if he will set aside his own quest for a Jedi Master and help a total stranger, which is what a Jedi would do is to help those in need, even if it's a personal inconvenience. The moment when Yoda turns off the act and Luke realizes who he's talking with, is a testament to Mark Hamill and Frank Oz being able to convey such complex changes in demeanor from a puppet. It will always be one of the greatest moments in an already incredible movie.
People dislike Jar Jar not just for being goofy, but because he has almost zero agency in the story. I remember watching TPM opening day and thinking it was really strange that Boss Nass would promote him to General. Speaking of, where was he during the battle? Then right before the battle between the Gungans and the Droids I half expected that despite Jar Jar being nothing more than a jester up until that point, that perhaps he might actually turn out to be a decent fighter, or at the very least, credibly aid those fighters more capable than him. The fact that he tells his fellow troops to stay steady when they began to get restless and I was about to abandon my dismissive attitude because we were about to see some growth.
Though what ensued was a nonsensical series of accidental victories that was so over the top that it couldn't be over fast enough so we could get back to the duel. Humorous characters can punctaute and give levity to an action sequence, but when all the character offers is humor and has no contribution other than snarky commentary, or adds inconvenience to the protagonists, they likewise become a burden to the audience. Think about it. If you were in a life or death situation and your friend did nothing more than quip sarcastically or actually got in your way instead of trying to help, you might just be inclined to use them as a human shield against gunfire. Jar Jar was a mess, but his contributions to the battle did little to win the day when it was Anakin knocking out the control ship, accidentally mind you, that won the day in that battle. It's not victory through credible action or intelligent strategy, it's victory through sheer dumb, and I emphasize dumb, luck.
It would have played well even if the Gungan Army saw the kinds of destruction Jar Jar's antics caused and they pulled a Goonies move and asked him to complete a task, knowing full well that he would break, scramble, or somehow mess up their opponent's tactics. The same way the Goonies asked Chunk to hold the framed map, being fully aware that he would shatter the glass and they would be able to free the map and the copper bones.
Say what you want about the Ewoks, but they did use the terrain and weapons they used the terrain, which gave them a tactical advantage against the Empire. While it would have been cooler to see Wookies in that battle instead, thematically they serve the same purpose. By contrast, the Gungans left their own terrain to fight a battle in a grass field, rather than try and draw the battle droids away from the city and closer to the water, which would have given the Gungans the upper hand.
People dislike Jar Jar not just for being goofy, but because he has almost zero agency in the story. I remember watching TPM opening day and thinking it was really strange that Boss Nass would promote him to General. Speaking of, where was he during the battle? Then right before the battle between the Gungans and the Droids I half expected that despite Jar Jar being nothing more than a jester up until that point, that perhaps he might actually turn out to be a decent fighter, or at the very least, credibly aid those fighters more capable than him. The fact that he tells his fellow troops to stay steady when they began to get restless and I was about to abandon my dismissive attitude because we were about to see some growth.
Though what ensued was a nonsensical series of accidental victories that was so over the top that it couldn't be over fast enough so we could get back to the duel. Humorous characters can punctaute and give levity to an action sequence, but when all the character offers is humor and has no contribution other than snarky commentary, or adds inconvenience to the protagonists, they likewise become a burden to the audience. Think about it. If you were in a life or death situation and your friend did nothing more than quip sarcastically or actually got in your way instead of trying to help, you might just be inclined to use them as a human shield against gunfire. Jar Jar was a mess, but his contributions to the battle did little to win the day when it was Anakin knocking out the control ship, accidentally mind you, that won the day in that battle. It's not victory through credible action or intelligent strategy, it's victory through sheer dumb, and I emphasize dumb, luck.
It would have played well even if the Gungan Army saw the kinds of destruction Jar Jar's antics caused and they pulled a Goonies move and asked him to complete a task, knowing full well that he would break, scramble, or somehow mess up their opponent's tactics. The same way the Goonies asked Chunk to hold the framed map, being fully aware that he would shatter the glass and they would be able to free the map and the copper bones.
Say what you want about the Ewoks, but they did use the terrain and weapons they used the terrain, which gave them a tactical advantage against the Empire. While it would have been cooler to see Wookies in that battle instead, thematically they serve the same purpose. By contrast, the Gungans left their own terrain to fight a battle in a grass field, rather than try and draw the battle droids away from the city and closer to the water, which would have given the Gungans the upper hand.
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I grew up with the first run theatrical releases of the original three films. Fans did NOT hate C3P0 or Yoda and complain about them. Not in the least. I am not sure why Lucas feels this way. Yoda was such a well fleshed out character that you forgot you were watching a puppet.
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