Lets talk all things Star Wars

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Well I for one can't wait until the fans bleed from the show in droves. I guess Lucasfilm will say they are Ableist because they won't watch a show with Vader. Attacking the fans instead of acknowledging their lack of good story writing/common sense seems par for the course at Lucasfilm these days.

 

[Psab keel]

I'm sure there would be a litany of excuses if that were to happen, none of which would be true.

 

[ScourgiousJinx]

Well I for one can't wait until the fans bleed from the show in droves. I guess Lucasfilm will say they are Ableist because they won't watch a show with Vader. Attacking the fans instead of acknowledging their lack of good story writing/common sense seems par for the course at Lucasfilm these days.

And then fans follow their example to attack other fans who voice displeasure with Lucasfilm content regardless of whether or not those fans are trolling. Convincing fans to do your PR for you is a brilliant strategy.

 

[ghostryder]

 

[Psab keel]

I heard he once got lost inside his own mystery box.

 

[blewis17]

FWIW: Heard from my brother last night (who teaches computer animation/ digital compositing). He was speaking with one of his friends that worked on a few shots in TROS. They filmed the "kiss at the end, but Rey dies, and Kylo/Ben lives" scene, but then went with the opposite outcome. So originally, KYLO was supposed to be the "new" Skywalker?!

Also, the Palpatine stuff was reshoots / add-ons. Although my brother's friend never got to see the original adversary (supposed Matt Smith) footage, he said that the Palpatine footage was added after the original adversary takes had been done.

Makes sense to me, the movie feels disjointed, cobbled together.

 

[robn1]

 

[HeartBlade]

FWIW: Heard from a my brother last night (who teaches computer animation/ digital compositing). He was speaking with one of his friends that worked on a few shots in TROS. They filmed the "kiss at the end, but Rey dies, and Kylo/Ben lives" scene, but then went with the opposite outcome. So originally, KYLO was supposed to be the "new" Skywalker?!

Also, the Palpatine stuff was reshoots / add-ons. Although my brother's friend never got to see the original adversary (supposed Matt Smith) footage, he said that the Palpatine footage was added after the original adversary takes had been done.

Makes sense to me, the movie feels disjointed, cobbled together.

Maybe it goes against Kennedy’s ethos but I do think Ben should have been the one to survive and have his story continue. Not only is he an actual Skywalker by blood (and thus keeps the Skywalkers alive rather than in just name through Rey), his post RoS story would be far more interesting.

Assuming he learned from Palpatine through Snoke, Ben would be the rare jedi who has been taught by both Jedi and Sith masters and would have a unique insight into the force. He is also one of the very rare few who has redeemed himself from the dark side and is not dead. Given that Ben would be the next leader of the jedi (since Rey, Luke, and Leia are dead based on this) he would have first hand knowledge of the threat and fear of the dark side, not be so extreme as to think it impossible to conquer, and may find a more “balanced” interpretation of how users can interact with the force.

Not going to lie, in terms of character development Ben was the most interesting (in that he is one of the few that actually had an arc).

 

[blewis17]

Maybe it goes against Kennedy’s ethos but I do think Ben should have been the one to survive and have his story continue. Not only is he an actual Skywalker by blood (and thus keeps the Skywalkers alive rather than in just name through Rey), his post RoS story would be far more interesting.

Assuming he learned from Palpatine through Snoke, Ben would be the rare jedi who has been taught by both Jedi and Sith masters and would have a unique insight into the force. He is also one of the very rare few who has redeemed himself from the dark side and is not dead. Given that Ben would be the next leader of the jedi (since Rey, Luke, and Leia are dead based on this) he would have first hand knowledge of the threat and fear of the dark side, not be so extreme as to think it impossible to conquer, and may find a more “balanced” interpretation of how users can interact with the force.

Not going to lie, in terms of character development Ben was the most interesting (in that he is one of the few that actually had an arc).

..perhaps he would have been the long fabled gray Jedi.

 

[HeartBlade]

..perhaps he would have been the long fabled gray Jedi.

Its an interesting concept but it could split completely from jedi to be its own thing too.

Whats interesting and not really touched upon with the Sith in Star Wars lore is that they are always the innovators of the two sides. It was the dark side thar created the protosaber and Im pretty sure it was the Sith that basically perfected the lightsaber, complete form eight, etc. although its for the pursuit of power, they are far more driven to embrace new things.

As a result, a Ben who has learned from masters from both sides would have a unique perspective on the force and interesting future storyline that could be expanded upon via tv show or future movies.

 

[Joek3rr]

FWIW: Heard from my brother last night (who teaches computer animation/ digital compositing). He was speaking with one of his friends that worked on a few shots in TROS. They filmed the "kiss at the end, but Rey dies, and Kylo/Ben lives" scene, but then went with the opposite outcome. So originally, KYLO was supposed to be the "new" Skywalker?!

Also, the Palpatine stuff was reshoots / add-ons. Although my brother's friend never got to see the original adversary (supposed Matt Smith) footage, he said that the Palpatine footage was added after the original adversary takes had been done.

Makes sense to me, the movie feels disjointed, cobbled together.

Concept artist Kevin Jenkins said that in a tweet awhile ago. That one of them was always going to die. The one coming back was up in the air. I suspect they went with Ben dying and bringing back Rey as it ironically fulfills his (and grandfather's) quest. The save a loved one from death. Also Rey being a sort of "new" Skywalker goes back to 2014.

https://imgur.com/a/3NQs6sT

Literally an interview just came out. Where Matt Smith said he was talked to a couple times. But they ended up going in another direction. He never had a costume test or scenes filmed. So it nixed pretty early. Pablo Hidalgo said that at one point as they were exploring what Palpatine would look like rejuvenated, and this it would have resulted an a "Sith King.
"There were a draft that described a "Sith King" emerging from the final rejuvenation, but as to what that was ever gonna look like, I don't think it got that far off the page."

 

[Joek3rr]

Here's a weird bit of useless trivia. I was watching ESB last night and remembered that Vader has short knee length tunic/surcoat when he's in Echo Base. As opposed to his ankle length one he typically wears. The 501st should add that as an option from ESB Vaders.

 

[sztriki]

Here's a weird bit of useless trivia. I was watching ESB last night and remembered that Vader has short knee length tunic/surcoat when he's in Echo Base. As opposed to his ankle length one he typically wears. The 501st should add that as an option from ESB Vaders.

Doesn't he also wear a repainted ANH helmet in one shot?

 

[Joek3rr]

Doesn't he also wear a repainted ANH helmet in one shot?

I think your right. That first time we see him walking through the command center. The grill on the chin looks smaller like it did in ANH.

 

[harrisonp]

I would be more okay with Palpatine returning if Matt Smith had been an acolyte waiting to take on the spirit of his old master in an arcane ritual. Then Palps can possess his body and Ian’s performance can take over.

 

[blewis17]

Concept artist Kevin Jenkins said that in a tweet awhile ago. That one of them was always going to die. The one coming back was up in the air. I suspect they went with Ben dying and bringing back Rey as it ironically fulfills his (and grandfather's) quest. The save a loved one from death. Also Rey being a sort of "new" Skywalker goes back to 2014.

https://imgur.com/a/3NQs6sT

Literally an interview just came out. Where Matt Smith said he was talked to a couple times. But they ended up going in another direction. He never had a costume test or scenes filmed. So it nixed pretty early. Pablo Hidalgo said that at one point as they were exploring what Palpatine would look like rejuvenated, and this it would have resulted an a "Sith King.
"There were a draft that described a "Sith King" emerging from the final rejuvenation, but as to what that was ever gonna look like, I don't think it got that far off the page."

Sounds like they weren't sure about Palpatine (or at least, Ian returning as Palpatine) until later into production.

If I understand what we eventually saw on screen: "Palpatine" was a spirit that could inhabit clone bodies. A culmination of all of the Sith knowledge and evil that had come before. So, the Emperor we saw in ROTJ may or may not have been the "original" body, right? Could have been a clone then. Either way, when Vader tossed him indown the observation tower, the Palpatine spirit unleashed went to Exegol, to inhabit a clone body.

...at some point, this was Snoke? is that right? (I'm still not sure if it was Palpatine in Snoke's body)
...and then when Kylo killed Snoke, the spirit went back to Exegol (although we did not "see" that happen in TLJ as we did in ROTJ)
...but this time the Spirit goes into an imperfect Palpatine clone body, basically reanimating a corpse?

Mike at RLM once postulated that the Exegol emperor was ALWAYS the "real" Palpatine, the man behind the curtain, and that the ROTJ Emperor was a clone of him (with appropriate dark side powers). But this does not appear to be the case, although I wouldn't mind if it were.

 

[blewis17]

BTW: did anyone else feel that Rey fighting her dark self in the 2nd Death Star observation tower was... somehow incomplete, odd, cut short? I'm assuming that JJ was trying his take on the Dagobah tree cave scene... but this seemed to come out of nowhere, no lead up to it, blink and you'll miss it, and... what's the point? It just feels like there was more to the scene that we didn't get in the final film. To be honest, I'm not sure why they left it in.

(I understand that the pretext is that this is a possible version of Rey if she agrees to become the new Palpatine)

 

[Joek3rr]

Sounds like they weren't sure about Palpatine (or at least, Ian returning as Palpatine) until later into production.

If I understand what we eventually saw on screen: "Palpatine" was a spirit that could inhabit clone bodies. A culmination of all of the Sith knowledge and evil that had come before. So, the Emperor we saw in ROTJ may or may not have been the "original" body, right? Could have been a clone then. Either way, when Vader tossed him indown the observation tower, the Palpatine spirit unleashed went to Exegol, to inhabit a clone body.

...at some point, this was Snoke? is that right? (I'm still not sure if it was Palpatine in Snoke's body)
...and then when Kylo killed Snoke, the spirit went back to Exegol (although we did not "see" that happen in TLJ as we did in ROTJ)
...but this time the Spirit goes into an imperfect Palpatine clone body, basically reanimating a corpse?

Mike at RLM once postulated that the Exegol emperor was ALWAYS the "real" Palpatine, the man behind the curtain, and that the ROTJ Emperor was a clone of him (with appropriate dark side powers). But this does not appear to be the case, although I wouldn't mind if it were.

Palpatine in ROTJ is the "original" Palpatine. His clone body is the one on Exegol. But the process doesn't work out quite right. And the body pretty much "dies." So he's in this weird zombie like state. Not quite alive. Not quite dead. I wish they had left that one of this exchange they cut out.
"You're a clone." - Kylo
"More then a clone. Less then a man." - Palpatine

So since this his clone didn't turn out the way he wanted. The cultists try to make a suitable body for their "god consciousness." Snoke is one of these creations. And while he isn't able play host for Palpatine, he is Force sensitive. And Palpatine is able to control him to some degree.

I get a Witch King/Ringwraith or Mouth of Sauron vibes from Snoke. He's got some limited free will, but it seems Palpatine can talk through him. And possibly see what he sees. Palpatine is totally aware of the connection that Rey and Ben have, that Snoke supposedly created. But not the extent of the connection. But I don't think Palpatine ever inhabited Snoke's body. (Though maybe that was the intention at one point? Might explain the Palpatine theme used for Snoke.)

 

[Joek3rr]

BTW: did anyone else feel that Rey fighting her dark self in the 2nd Death Star observation tower was... somehow incomplete, odd, cut short? I'm assuming that JJ was trying his take on the Dagobah tree cave scene... but this seemed to come out of nowhere, no lead up to it, blink and you'll miss it, and... what's the point? It just feels like there was more to the scene that we didn't get in the final film. To be honest, I'm not sure why they left it in.

(I understand that the pretext is that this is a possible version of Rey if she agrees to become the new Palpatine)

I think it's really just to unhinge Rey more. She's been having visions of her on the Sith throne. And now this. Just sets her on edge for her fight with Kylo. She's becoming so afraid of herself, what she could be. And in typical Star Wars irony, as she's trying to prevent what she see from occuring, she slowly slipping down the dark side.

 

[Bigdaddy]

The only way I could possibly make the ST connect with the OT in my head is to assume it's the dying dream of Palpatine as he's falling down the shaft at the end of RoTJ. There's just too many story inconsistencies for me.