Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.


Psab keel

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Considering the Force is such a key element to the story it's difficult to separate the Jedi from it. I think Mandalorian season 1 was the closest anyone got to doing a Star Wars story without Jedi. Solo and Rogue One as well, but even those two had lightsaber cameos and one of which had Darth Vader.
 
Last edited:

Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.

ScourgiousJinx

Sr Member
Isnt Vader’s armor plated to deflect bolts and shallow saber swings? Han’s blaster is supposedly customized to shoot stronger bolts but Vader can deflect with his armor.

I think we tend to see jedi immediately go for their saber because they have some foresight due to the force and are always put in do or doe situations (war, assassination attempt, etc.). Maybe if we had a tv show just following jedi peacekeepers as mediators, the jedi wont be as trigger-happy.

Not gonna lie, it is hard to separate Star Wars from jedi. Although Star Wars does have a big universe, its big selling point is jedi, lightsabers, and the force. If a series that focused on smugglers is created, what really differentiates that show from a new IP like Firefly if you dont bring in the jedi element somehow through references like the smugglers just happen to be smuggling kyber crystals? Even if you dont start with any jedi stuff, the audience is expecting and hoping for it and you will be pressured to deliver.
Vaders armor is definitely plated to deflect light blaster fire. Sparks fly and his hands seem to glow for a second from the impact and heat of the bolts, I just assumed the force was involved with his ability to connect his hands with the incoming blaster bolts as it seems like that might be difficult for a person who was not force sensitive to do.

No need to separate Star Wars from the Jedi or to remove them & lightsabers from the content, just to add some different things to the mix. A Jedi who sometimes uses martial arts augmented by the force instead or that cant use the force temporarily. Peacekeeping that involves de-escalation or at least attempts to do so occasionally. Would be great ways to give the audience other possible slightly less predictable outcomes instead of always escalating nearly everything into a physical lightsaber battle immediately. Love the lightsaber battles but also really love not knowing exactly what's going to happen. The ST was the result of giving the audience what they wanted, or at least what Lucasfilm thought they wanted. Story and originality should be first priority or else we're going to continue to get the same Star Wars content ad nauseam.
 

Solo4114

Master Member
Not gonna lie, it is hard to separate Star Wars from jedi. Although Star Wars does have a big universe, its big selling point is jedi, lightsabers, and the force. If a series that focused on smugglers is created, what really differentiates that show from a new IP like Firefly if you dont bring in the jedi element somehow through references like the smugglers just happen to be smuggling kyber crystals? Even if you dont start with any jedi stuff, the audience is expecting and hoping for it and you will be pressured to deliver.

For some, maybe. Personally, I think Star Wars is big enough that you don't need the Force or Jedi or Sith at all to keep it interesting. It's a setting, not a formula. Or, at least, it should be.

Examples:

- The Mandalorian is giving us a pretty good glimpse at the grubby, grimy underworld of Star Wars. Even without Baby Yoda or Luke or Ahsoka showing up, the show is terrific, and I think it's terrific because it isn't all bound up with all the Force stuff.

- I know not everyone liked it, but I loved Solo, which was almost entirely devoid of anything relating to the Force and only briefly touched on it in the final moment of the film -- and even then it still wasn't really about that. I'd love to see more stories in that end of the Star Wars universe.

- You could do multiple movie series or TV shows about the grunts of the Star Wars universe. The Rebel troopers, the special forces, the pilots, none of which would need to even touch on the Force or have some "Do I have Jedi potential?!?!?" character.

I think Star Wars is at its absolute worst when it's reduced to a checklist of formulaic elements, or when we can't see past the elements that made past films popular to the deeper issues.

In a way, I see Star Wars as almost a genre unto itself. And when it comes to genre fiction, the key thing to remember is that the genre is a backdrop for telling stories about people and ideas. Genre fiction is mostly disposable when it's just a paint-by-numbers affair. Nobody would call the Friday the 13th series especially good storytelling, for example. It's fun but it's fun in a disposable way. You almost never get at anything deeper or more interesting than the formula itself, and you're really just there for the kills and the boobs. Genre fiction is way more interesting when it's about something and the genre stuff is just the setting/backdrop. And that's the thing: the best genre fiction uses the unreality of the setting in a way that allows you to focus on the more human issues and deeper ideas. In a way, I think it lets you get even deeper into those human elements because it's in this fantastical setting and it throws them into even sharper contrast, forcing you to really grapple with them on a fundamental level.

Stephen King's work is as good as it is not because of the supernatural or horror elements, but because his characters are so well written and so...human. Dune is a science fiction masterpiece not because of the sandworms and the appendices of funky names and human computers and whatnot, but because those elements highlight the tale of political intrigue, colonialism, religiosity, concepts of messiah, etc. You know, the human stuff. Frankenstein isn't a masterpiece because it's about a monster risen from the dead; it's because by being about how examining that monster forces us to grapple with the meaning of humanity and god.

I see Star Wars as having the same potential. You need to tick just enough boxes to fit the story within the genre, but what would ultimately make that story connect would be the human elements of it. The drama of people fighting against a tyrannical, oppressive power. The drama of surviving in a lawless frontier and the human interactions (even if they happen with aliens) in that setting. Questions of what makes a hero, and what the impact of "destiny" is on people.

This is a big part of why I like TLJ: it grapples with a lot of this. It treats Star Wars as a genre and a backdrop so that it can focus on the human aspects of Rey's journey, Luke's disillusionment, Ben's embrace of evil, familial connections, the weight of destiny on people and how it influences their choices, and how we decide who we are as people. I think some of the storylines aren't handled as well, and I think it's a bit too big of a divergence from the paint-by-numbers affairs that JJ made, leading to an overall very disjointed experience in watching the sequel trilogy, so it's not without its flaws. But the stuff I appreciate about it is that it really seems to get this idea of "Star Wars is a genre/backdrop, not a checklist, and not an iterative story that gets re-told ad nauseum with the only interesting part being how this version is slightly different from the last one."
 

Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.

HackinSpock

Active Member
For some, maybe. Personally, I think Star Wars is big enough that you don't need the Force or Jedi or Sith at all to keep it interesting. It's a setting, not a formula. Or, at least, it should be.

Examples:

- The Mandalorian is giving us a pretty good glimpse at the grubby, grimy underworld of Star Wars. Even without Baby Yoda or Luke or Ahsoka showing up, the show is terrific, and I think it's terrific because it isn't all bound up with all the Force stuff.

- I know not everyone liked it, but I loved Solo, which was almost entirely devoid of anything relating to the Force and only briefly touched on it in the final moment of the film -- and even then it still wasn't really about that. I'd love to see more stories in that end of the Star Wars universe.

- You could do multiple movie series or TV shows about the grunts of the Star Wars universe. The Rebel troopers, the special forces, the pilots, none of which would need to even touch on the Force or have some "Do I have Jedi potential?!?!?" character.

I think Star Wars is at its absolute worst when it's reduced to a checklist of formulaic elements, or when we can't see past the elements that made past films popular to the deeper issues.

In a way, I see Star Wars as almost a genre unto itself. And when it comes to genre fiction, the key thing to remember is that the genre is a backdrop for telling stories about people and ideas. Genre fiction is mostly disposable when it's just a paint-by-numbers affair. Nobody would call the Friday the 13th series especially good storytelling, for example. It's fun but it's fun in a disposable way. You almost never get at anything deeper or more interesting than the formula itself, and you're really just there for the kills and the boobs. Genre fiction is way more interesting when it's about something and the genre stuff is just the setting/backdrop. And that's the thing: the best genre fiction uses the unreality of the setting in a way that allows you to focus on the more human issues and deeper ideas. In a way, I think it lets you get even deeper into those human elements because it's in this fantastical setting and it throws them into even sharper contrast, forcing you to really grapple with them on a fundamental level.

Stephen King's work is as good as it is not because of the supernatural or horror elements, but because his characters are so well written and so...human. Dune is a science fiction masterpiece not because of the sandworms and the appendices of funky names and human computers and whatnot, but because those elements highlight the tale of political intrigue, colonialism, religiosity, concepts of messiah, etc. You know, the human stuff. Frankenstein isn't a masterpiece because it's about a monster risen from the dead; it's because by being about how examining that monster forces us to grapple with the meaning of humanity and god.

I see Star Wars as having the same potential. You need to tick just enough boxes to fit the story within the genre, but what would ultimately make that story connect would be the human elements of it. The drama of people fighting against a tyrannical, oppressive power. The drama of surviving in a lawless frontier and the human interactions (even if they happen with aliens) in that setting. Questions of what makes a hero, and what the impact of "destiny" is on people.

This is a big part of why I like TLJ: it grapples with a lot of this. It treats Star Wars as a genre and a backdrop so that it can focus on the human aspects of Rey's journey, Luke's disillusionment, Ben's embrace of evil, familial connections, the weight of destiny on people and how it influences their choices, and how we decide who we are as people. I think some of the storylines aren't handled as well, and I think it's a bit too big of a divergence from the paint-by-numbers affairs that JJ made, leading to an overall very disjointed experience in watching the sequel trilogy, so it's not without its flaws. But the stuff I appreciate about it is that it really seems to get this idea of "Star Wars is a genre/backdrop, not a checklist, and not an iterative story that gets re-told ad nauseum with the only interesting part being how this version is slightly different from the last one."
You hit the nail on the head with all your points, especially with TLJ, a film I also really enjoy.
 

Inquisitor Peregrinus

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I'm not one of the "I don't want to see any more Jedi!" people, but I do like the stories about regular soldiers in the SW universe. I think that's why I liked the X-Wing novels (Rogue and Wraith Squadrons) even though one person can use the Force later on. I'm hoping we will get a little bit of Wraith Squadron in the Andor series with a lot of specops/spy stuff.
I think Aaron Allston did a better job of it than Michael Stackpole. In part because of Mike's Gary Stu, Corran. By contrast, Mike's X-Wing comics -- before Corran was added to the storyline as it continued in the novels -- feels on par with the later Wraith Squadron books. Outside of those, my favorite slice-of-the-galaxy books are Brian Daley's old Han Solo books.
 
Last edited:

HeartBlade

Sr Member
For some, maybe. Personally, I think Star Wars is big enough that you don't need the Force or Jedi or Sith at all to keep it interesting. It's a setting, not a formula. Or, at least, it should be.

Examples:

- The Mandalorian is giving us a pretty good glimpse at the grubby, grimy underworld of Star Wars. Even without Baby Yoda or Luke or Ahsoka showing up, the show is terrific, and I think it's terrific because it isn't all bound up with all the Force stuff.

- I know not everyone liked it, but I loved Solo, which was almost entirely devoid of anything relating to the Force and only briefly touched on it in the final moment of the film -- and even then it still wasn't really about that. I'd love to see more stories in that end of the Star Wars universe.

- You could do multiple movie series or TV shows about the grunts of the Star Wars universe. The Rebel troopers, the special forces, the pilots, none of which would need to even touch on the Force or have some "Do I have Jedi potential?!?!?" character.

I think Star Wars is at its absolute worst when it's reduced to a checklist of formulaic elements, or when we can't see past the elements that made past films popular to the deeper issues.

In a way, I see Star Wars as almost a genre unto itself. And when it comes to genre fiction, the key thing to remember is that the genre is a backdrop for telling stories about people and ideas. Genre fiction is mostly disposable when it's just a paint-by-numbers affair. Nobody would call the Friday the 13th series especially good storytelling, for example. It's fun but it's fun in a disposable way. You almost never get at anything deeper or more interesting than the formula itself, and you're really just there for the kills and the boobs. Genre fiction is way more interesting when it's about something and the genre stuff is just the setting/backdrop. And that's the thing: the best genre fiction uses the unreality of the setting in a way that allows you to focus on the more human issues and deeper ideas. In a way, I think it lets you get even deeper into those human elements because it's in this fantastical setting and it throws them into even sharper contrast, forcing you to really grapple with them on a fundamental level.

Stephen King's work is as good as it is not because of the supernatural or horror elements, but because his characters are so well written and so...human. Dune is a science fiction masterpiece not because of the sandworms and the appendices of funky names and human computers and whatnot, but because those elements highlight the tale of political intrigue, colonialism, religiosity, concepts of messiah, etc. You know, the human stuff. Frankenstein isn't a masterpiece because it's about a monster risen from the dead; it's because by being about how examining that monster forces us to grapple with the meaning of humanity and god.

I see Star Wars as having the same potential. You need to tick just enough boxes to fit the story within the genre, but what would ultimately make that story connect would be the human elements of it. The drama of people fighting against a tyrannical, oppressive power. The drama of surviving in a lawless frontier and the human interactions (even if they happen with aliens) in that setting. Questions of what makes a hero, and what the impact of "destiny" is on people.

I do think the Star wars universe is very diverse but when I thought of the different stories I would tell if I was in charge of Lucasfilm, I saw how dependent I was on the jedi and the force.

Some ideas:
1) a series focused on smugglers during the empire (maybe like a descent into darkness type story where some person gets involved since they need money).
- Thinking what would be the twist to get people to watch, I think the reveal (maybe after several smuggling runs) would be that the cargo they are shipping is kyber crystals, maybe because the Empire deems them illegal to trade. I feel then that the delivery target would be jedi allies or jedi themselves, bringing them into the story.

2) a focus on the rebel spies, maybe a deep delve into their more grey morality. That could be interesting and force/jedi free.

3) some seperate force sect that has their own interpretation of the force and seeing their story. Still relies on the force and will probably inevitably have a confrontation with jedi and sith as the series goes on though.

I do think a series of a jedi and padawan just traveling the galaxy and righting wrongs through mediation (and very very rarely force like twice a season) could work well but that relies on the jedi schtick again. Maybe change it to some random empire law enforcer, showing where the Empire wasnt all bad and that the empire itself isnt all just evil might work (and since jedi are rare, no force or jedis mentioned).
 

Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.

Psab keel

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Or you could have a story where a regular Joe joins the Empire under the guise that they will be bringing peace and order to the galaxy only to find out that the very thing they signed up for ends up being the total opposite and by that point they are in too deep. They could eventually defect to the Rebellion over the course of the show. It would be a good vehicle to explore those big moral questions about what's right and wrong. It could address the complications of needing employment/ protection/ survival and the different ideologies behind the different characters and factions. In real life and in fiction the reasoning behind people's choices is often far more nuanced and complex than just doing the right thing and if people crave more mature content that explores this, this type of story would be a good way to do just that all while using the trappings we know and love.

By far the very best episode of The Mandalorian was The Believer. That one scene with Bill Burr's character sitting down with the Imperial commander and the dialog between them was right out of a Tarantino movie where the actors chew the scenery. Damn if that wasn't some of the best Star Wars material I've seen since 1983! Throughout that episode it explored the ideas of the regular people in this fictional world and their thoughts on the galaxy wide conflict. It showed more maturity and depth than I've seen in Star Wars in decades. The best part is that right before the Imperial was shot he actually made me fear the Empire. For one brief moment they became a viable threat again because he exposed how insidious their plans actually were and the dangers of allowing even the smallest ounce of tyranny to infect the public mindset. Far too often the villains have been easily defeated or charicatures of better written villains who pose a viable threat. In this one instance that scene established the Empire for the evil that it was intended to be in the original films.

Then again so much of the stories in this world rely on either Jedi/ Sith conflicts and Rebellion/ Empire conflicts.
 

Sluis Van Shipyards

Legendary Member
Or you could have a story where a regular Joe joins the Empire under the guise that they will be bringing peace and order to the galaxy only to find out that the very thing they signed up for ends up being the total opposite and by that point they are in too deep. They could eventually defect to the Rebellion over the course of the show. It would be a good vehicle to explore those big moral questions about what's right and wrong. It could address the complications of needing employment/ protection/ survival and the different ideologies behind the different characters and factions. In real life and in fiction the reasoning behind people's choices is often far more nuanced and complex than just doing the right thing and if people crave more mature content that explores this, this type of story would be a good way to

Here you go (main character doesn't defect though, that's sort of Dark Forces):

tiefighterart.jpg
 

Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.

Inquisitor Peregrinus

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Or you could have a story where a regular Joe joins the Empire under the guise that they will be bringing peace and order to the galaxy only to find out that the very thing they signed up for ends up being the total opposite and by that point they are in too deep. They could eventually defect to the Rebellion over the course of the show.
That is, in order, one of my favorite EU backstories and one of my favorite comic storylines.

General Madine in ROTJ had been an Imperial officer. He was the one tasked, after the Battle of Yavin and the Empire could no longer pretend the Rebellion wasn't a serious threat, with taking the Imperial Commandos and most-elite Stormtrooper Scouts and creating a highly-skilled counterterrorist spec-ops group out of them -- the Storm Commandos and Shadow Scouts. Within a couple years of seeing how his people were being used, however, he realized he was on the wrong side. A lot of that got used as inspiration for Kallus' story arc in Rebels.

The other is the "In the Empire's Service" storyline of the X-Wing comics, centering around Baron Soontir Fel and his 181st Interceptor Wing. Noble family, true believer, serious officer and pilot... After the Emperor's death, the squabbling of various factions and "warlords" sicken him and he decides that if that's what the Empire's become it deserves to die. Plus he's married to Wedge's famous actress sister and that's led him to respect his adversary. So when he finds he has more respect for them than the Empire, he hands himself over.
 

Pepperbone

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
That is, in order, one of my favorite EU backstories and one of my favorite comic storylines.

General Madine in ROTJ had been an Imperial officer. He was the one tasked, after the Battle of Yavin and the Empire could no longer pretend the Rebellion wasn't a serious threat, with taking the Imperial Commandos and most-elite Stormtrooper Scouts and creating a highly-skilled counterterrorist spec-ops group out of them -- the Storm Commandos and Shadow Scouts. Within a couple years of seeing how his people were being used, however, he realized he was on the wrong side. A lot of that got used as inspiration for Kallus' story arc in Rebels.

The other is the "In the Empire's Service" storyline of the X-Wing comics, centering around Baron Soontir Fel and his 181st Interceptor Wing. Noble family, true believer, serious officer and pilot... After the Emperor's death, the squabbling of various factions and "warlords" sicken him and he decides that if that's what the Empire's become it deserves to die. Plus he's married to Wedge's famous actress sister and that's led him to respect his adversary. So when he finds he has more respect for them than the Empire, he hands himself over.
All that to say, there's a lot of very interesting material to play with.

In circumstance favorable to creative license; I'd love to see a director like David Fincher or Christopher Nolan or (after seeing JOKER) Todd Phillips give these - and similar stories - a shot.
 

harrisonp

Sr Member
I want episode X to be about the Bothans trying to seize power from whatever remains of the New Republic. That conflict could lead to the creation of Rogue Squadron, where the NR attempts to show the galaxy that they won’t let disarmament happen again, as well as being an alliance building exercise with the systems that stayed independent in the FO/NR conflict.

The Bothans can stress that the remnant NR is built up of very green personnel from the direct lineage of the people that failed the NR in the first place. Basically make up for the effectively nonexistent political intrigue in the sequels.
 

Axlotl

Master Member
Remember in Star Wars, at Mos Eisley, the black-cloaked elephant-faced guy with the walkie-talkie? Obviously a spy.
So when ROTJ came out, and the lady said "Bothan spies", my 11-year-old mind put 2 and 2 together and arrived at the conclusion that that guy must have been a Bothan spy.
 

Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. Your new thread title is very short, and likely is unhelpful.
  2. Your reply is very short and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  3. Your reply is very long and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  4. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
  5. Your message is mostly quotes or spoilers.
  6. Your reply has occurred very quickly after a previous reply and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  7. This thread is locked.

Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.

Top