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BTTUK

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I had to edit my original post. But he's says fairy tale not fantasy. My bad.

A prince, princess, a castle, it is a fairy tale trope. And Star Wars is a modern fair tale, with side of operatic tragedy.

JJ concepts are at some points surface level, but other places, especially with TROS deeper. (though that may be from Terrio) The one concept that particularly love, is the relationship between Rey and Ben. As I've mentioned before they have this Yin Yang relationship. They are like living embodiments of the Force. When we look at the symbolism that represents the Force, we see the symbol for the dark and light sides, contain the other within each other. They are intertwined. And we find in TROS, like the Force itself, they are a dyad. Two that are one.

This concept of two that are one is inversion to a concept of duality that's found throughout Star Wars, particularly in TPM. And I love that at the end of TROS, they literally become two that are one. It's interesting thematic twist/inversion to the beginning of the saga.
That may be so, but it was badly executed in my opinion.
 

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HeartBlade

Sr Member
Yeah, only those two use that stabby move. Everyone else slashes.
By that logic, Cal Kestis is also a Palpatine since one of his moves is a stab. Maul also stabs given that is how he killed Oui Gon as well as Grievous. Actually as does Ben in TLJ (stabs one of the guards in the throne room and Luke).

You could argue that stabbing is a dark side affiliated move since stabbing is intended to kill/inflict damage while Jedi slash because they want to block/defend but its probably more of a choreography thing.

One thing good about the ST (until RoS) was they began removing the turning my back to my enemy swinging moves which were prevalent in PT. Looking back at OT, I did notice old Ben do it against Vader despite his age so assumed maybe it was just how the jedi trained. Luke stopped the bad practice by not learning it from Yoda (his final fight against Vader is clean always facing his opponent), and Rey and Ben didnt do many show my back swings.
 

Bigdaddy

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I assumed that comment was in jest but I'm pretty sure the fight "moves" used in various films are simply based on real world choreography rather than in universe hidden meanings. The idea that stabbing is some how "bad" and slashing is "good" seems like quite a stretch. These are highly impractical weapons that are really in the films to look cool, in the real world they would be as dangerous to the wielder as to the opponent. The choreography in the PT as well as the ST was all about visuals for the audience rather than practical dueling. Thankfully the technical limitations in the OT didn't allow for distracting us with flashing colored sticks every few minutes so there had to be more creative story elements to keep the audience intrigued. Old fashioned ideas like writing, acting, pacing, editing.. ;)
 

HeartBlade

Sr Member
I assumed that comment was in jest but I'm pretty sure the fight "moves" used in various films are simply based on real world choreography rather than in universe hidden meanings. The idea that stabbing is some how "bad" and slashing is "good" seems like quite a stretch. These are highly impractical weapons that are really in the films to look cool, in the real world they would be as dangerous to the wielder as to the opponent. The choreography in the PT as well as the ST was all about visuals for the audience rather than practical dueling. Thankfully the technical limitations in the OT didn't allow for distracting us with flashing colored sticks every few minutes so there had to be more creative story elements to keep the audience intrigued. Old fashioned ideas like writing, acting, pacing, editing.. ;)
If you are referring to my comment, maybe best to call it trying to justify an idea I dont agree with.

I agree you cant really call certain moves “bad” or “good” affiliated and the lack of stabs is likely just due to less fancy choreography. Most movies with sword fights have few stabs and more swinging at each others blades.

Ironically, I remember some article stating that if lightsabers were real, the ideal fighting method would be similar to fencing with lots of stabbing on both sides.
 

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Riceball

Master Member
If you are referring to my comment, maybe best to call it trying to justify an idea I dont agree with.

I agree you cant really call certain moves “bad” or “good” affiliated and the lack of stabs is likely just due to less fancy choreography. Most movies with sword fights have few stabs and more swinging at each others blades.

Ironically, I remember some article stating that if lightsabers were real, the ideal fighting method would be similar to fencing with lots of stabbing on both sides.
Movies tend to go with cuts and slashes because they look better on film and they're safer to choreograph. Thrusts can be a bit trickier for the actors to react to in time and even swords with dull edges can still have sharp enough of a point to do some serious damage with a thrust. With cutting, you can stand out of measures (too far actually land a blow), and instead of trying to attack your opponent, you attack their blade instead. There's less risk of injury that way and, to the uninitiated, it looks exciting.
 
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Psab keel

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
There ought to be some sort of realism incorporated into the lightsaber battles but I'm also aware that 98% of Hollywood swordfights are more akin to choreographed sword dancing and have little to no resemblance to actual martial combat. They might be peppered with the flavor of real combat moves but there will always be measures in place to ensure safety for the actors so you have to kind of couch the criticisms with that in mind. The fights you see in the movies are made to look cool and drive the plot forward or express the internal conflicts of the characters through action. Which is a great device to use in a visual medium like film but to make 100% analogous comparisons to actual western or easten martial arts is kind of a moot point when you're discussing a totally fictional weapon with no discernable edge.

The lightsaber has to work within the context of it's own world and while I do laugh at unnecessary sword twirling and spin moves where you turn your back to your opponent, when you consider the comparison to real world swords I think by and large they are about as realistic as you can get for film fights. When you consider western martial arts for example where grappling and being able to half sword, or even grab the blade itself to disarm your opponent and crossing the flat of a blade to parry rather than the edge, those are all things that can't be done with a lightsaber the same way considering it seems to be generally accepted that a lightsaber blade is essentially all edge with no flat and certainly can't be touched without damage to tissue.

What would have been cool is to see more hand to hand combat or to try and incorporate more grappling and footwork into the fights but a lightsaber is kind of limited in certain respects just based on the weapon itself. I would be far more critical of a movie that incorporated real swords like a period film or a fantasy epic because the only difference in those types of movies is the setting rather than the weapon itself. With a couple of very rare exceptions, I have yet to see any fictional movie where the sword fighting is remotely accurate to actual combat. At least in the western tradition. Most of it is sword clanging with edge on edge contact and I can ignore that as long as the story is well crafted because that's just Hollywood. There are times where it grates on me, but Star Wars is kind of in it's own category because of the weapon.
 

Sluis Van Shipyards

Legendary Member
I just want to see someone bash someone else with the lightsaber pommel. We know the Jedi have martial skills because we saw Obi-Wan go hand to hand with Jango. It would be neat to showcase some more examples of them being more than the Force and lightsabers. Like we know they have a lot of training, but it would be neat to see more examples of what they are trained to do other than those two disciplines. Obviously they have to know basic combat strategy, detective skills, research, law enforcement, etc.
 

Psab keel

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I loved the Jango Obi-Wan fight in the rain. It finally showcased some skills without the use of the lightsaber and some less acrobatic Force powers. I also still love Mace Windu's fight against the droids in the Clone Wars Micro series. It too showcased the Jedi's power without having to resort to the use of the lightsaber. I love lightsabers but they were overused in the prequels especially.
 

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HeartBlade

Sr Member
I just want to see someone bash someone else with the lightsaber pommel. We know the Jedi have martial skills because we saw Obi-Wan go hand to hand with Jango. It would be neat to showcase some more examples of them being more than the Force and lightsabers. Like we know they have a lot of training, but it would be neat to see more examples of what they are trained to do other than those two disciplines. Obviously they have to know basic combat strategy, detective skills, research, law enforcement, etc.
The closest we get is Maul bashing Qui Gon in the face with his hilt. Given the emphasis on blade work and the fact that there are many sabers without pommels (Anakin’s graflex for example), pommel bashing likely wasnt a thing.

In terms of education, there is probably a diverse curriculum based on speciality. In addition to being a religious sect, they also are a military force (peacekeeping) and an advisory (advisor to the Chancellor). After a basic gen ed on the force, basic lightsaber combat, jedi could probably choose their speciality although most are likely encouraged to be peacekeepers.

So Yoda is the head master, Windu is the dean trying to make sure everyone has a proper education, Qui Gon is the weird outsider who just turned out to be right, and Anakin is the troublemaker jock who got in on a scholarship.
 

Psab keel

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Jedi High: A Star Wars Teenager Story

From what I heard when filming the shot of Qui-Gon getting hit in the face George wasn't happy with Liam's reaction and thought it looked phony so he instructed Ray Park to gently tap him in the face with his saber hilt and that's the shot that ended up in the film. So Liam's reaction wasn't an act at all.
 

Psab keel

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
SPOILER ALERT:








temuera-morrison-boba-fett-interview_TALL.jpg
 

ScourgiousJinx

Sr Member
I always liked the "We would be honored if you would join us" scene in ESB partially because Vader doesn't even bother with his lightsaber to defend himself. Solo started firing almost immediately so there wasn't really time, but he knew they were coming and likely could sense that Solo was going to pull a blaster out before it happened. Maybe he just didn't want to damage Calrissian's dining room set lol. Anyhow it was cool to see him use the force and not rely on his weapon, even if the saber was impractical to use in the moment.

The Jedi need more of that as it seems quite often they jump to igniting their sabers as soon as confronted with danger. Using the force or martial arts as defense frequently seem to be afterthoughts. The Jango Obi-Wan fight from AOTC was definitely fun, more of that would be welcome.
 

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Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Apologies if this was brought up earlier - and I don't wanna dwell on lightsaber stabs, but only today did I notice that in ROTJ, as Luke rages when Vader discovers he has a sister, his first move is a stab. Kinda feel silly for not noticing this before.
intense scream too
 

HeartBlade

Sr Member
Isnt Vader’s armor plated to deflect bolts and shallow saber swings? Han’s blaster is supposedly customized to shoot stronger bolts but Vader can deflect with his armor.

I think we tend to see jedi immediately go for their saber because they have some foresight due to the force and are always put in do or doe situations (war, assassination attempt, etc.). Maybe if we had a tv show just following jedi peacekeepers as mediators, the jedi wont be as trigger-happy.

Not gonna lie, it is hard to separate Star Wars from jedi. Although Star Wars does have a big universe, its big selling point is jedi, lightsabers, and the force. If a series that focused on smugglers is created, what really differentiates that show from a new IP like Firefly if you dont bring in the jedi element somehow through references like the smugglers just happen to be smuggling kyber crystals? Even if you dont start with any jedi stuff, the audience is expecting and hoping for it and you will be pressured to deliver.
 

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