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Bigdaddy

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Ok, now you've gone to far! We've crossed completely into another movie franchise! I can deal with the constant Sequel bashing, but c'mon! :lol: :lol: ;) ;)

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Joek3rr

Sr Member
Seriously this response is ridiculous and a regurgitation of what you said before with no new evidence.

A plan means you at least have an idea of a beginning, middle, and end with a basic events of what will happen of which we have no evidence Lucasfilm had. Nevermind the fact that episode 7 already veers off significantly from Ardnt’s plan which was to have Han Solo reconcile with Leia and not die. Pretty big change given the fact that Han is a major character. And when you make a major change to a plan, that also affects other things down the line and therefore your plan is essentially useless unless you have another plan.

RJ literally says he got to see only what Abrams had and had free reign to discuss and write the story from there. He even states he was wary of working on star wars because he expected guidelines that limited his freedom but there literally was none. I also honestly dont get this “he is a team player” sentiment when he has no real option to be a team player. He doesnt know where the movie is going or where it ends, nor does he need to because he isnt paid to write episode 9. There is no evidence of a episode 9 treatment from RJ either so I really dont understand this sentiment.

Hell, Rian Johnson states “there was no plan for Rise of Skywalker and if there was, he wasnt privy to it”. You would think the director for the middle part of a franchise that needs to set up the dominos to fall in the conclusion in the third movie should be aware of plan so he can build those characters toward them. You trust Rian. Listen to him.


Funny the stills you pick out tell a different story. Rey training with a ton of laser droids (never happened), seeming to be actually getting a lesson from Luke and succeeding based on the slight smile as Luke watches, and Rey discovering the x-wing as a means to understand why Luke exiled himself. Dont remember any of these storylines in TLJ. The stills are just images, the storylines are important and notably dropped.

Oh and lets forget the fact that the MCU initially had the Marvel Creative Committee to guide the MCU and directors often clashed with since they gave notes to edit things throughout production and made the key decisions when deciding how to steer the MCU. Or that the MCU even now has a parliament where directors need to submit their scripts for review. Or that Marvel has a history of directors quitting due to creative differences. Or that even if Marvel has different directors for different characters, the directors tend to stick with one character throughout their series and thus likely has an idea of how they want to develop their characters. Or even the fact that these character trilogies are still self-contained stories with a beginning/middle/end and are not long-run narrative films like Star Wars or Lord of the Rings where the audience is expected to watch all three movies to understand the story (you can watch and understand Ironman 3 without seeing 1 or 2. You cant understand RotJ or RotS without seeing the previous 2).

It would be unfair to compare the ST to Lord of the Rings (film planning and prep done right) because Jackson already had a 2 film script done before even getting the project off the ground, the new deal with New Line allowing him to make 3 films and thus adding more stuff.

then again, its pointless to discuss the demerits of the ST to ending this discussion and closing this thread is fine by me.
This is going to be the last word I say on this for a time. I'm getting tired of it. But I owe a reply.

Yes they had a plan. We've been over this. They had a beginning, they had a middle, they had an end. But as JJ just recently said. Sometimes you end up sticking to your plan. Sometimes you end deviating from your plan, while developing. This is because sometimes you bring on a new writer with new ideas, say like Rian or Chris. Sometimes it's because the original author or authors has changed his mind on where things are going and how they are going, like George did with his two trilogies. And sometimes it's because an actress that plays an important role tragically passes away. These all will effect the 'plan.' And so they don't rigidly adhere the their 'plan.'

That is key issue, it isn't it they had a plan, because they did. It's how much did they adhere their original plan. And answer is. Yes and no. Some parts of they stuck to. Some parts they deviated from. But it all came about from endless writing a discussions. For instance you mention Han and Leia. Yes Michael Ardnt did at one time try to have Han and Leia come back together. But the original idea was to kill Han. George literally told Harrison that over the phone as a way to get him back. And by June 2013, that seems to have been a done deal, Han was die, that's still with Michael Ardnt.
Screenshot_20210607-065321.png


What Rian said is for the most part true. There was no story mapped out, you can have a 'plan' without a story. You can say, 'plan' that Ben will return to the light, in the last episode. But that isn't story. Or that Rey's parentage won't be revealed until the last episode. Story, is the who, what, when, where, how, etc. That is a story. (Note Rian is carful to point out that he didn't know about Ben, not Kylo was going to die. I think we can safely assume he knew of Kylo's ending. You also have to wonder if he was told that Ben could die. Rian wouldn't known for sure that he would die. These guys are always real political in their choice of words during an interview.) When a filmmaker comes in, Lucasfilm comes along side, to help them hone the story. It's a collaborative effort, the filmmaker get to make the story that they feel strongly about, and Lucasfilm gets their next installment. They work together. And Rian seems to have been the favorite to work with.

And to touch on your holy MCU. Not even they plan out the 'story.' Marvel Studios works in a similar fashion to Lucasfilm. Coming alongside and collaborating with the filmmakers, to help them make their film. Not the other way around.

It's also worth pointing out, that Marvel had no long term plan, or it changed, part way through. The 'Infinity War Saga' was not planned from the beginning. Though through clever marketing and film writing they'd like to make you believe it was. But we can see it wasn't. The Infinity Gauntlet in Thor was retconned. The Cosmic Cube was retconned to contain the Space Stone. Loki's scepter was retconned into containing the Mind Stone. And the Aether was retconned into the Reality Stone. They wrote Captain America having a relationship with his girlfriends niece, which weird enough. Then to reveal that he actually was in a relationship with HIS own niece! Trying for Star Wars type incest?

Bottom line. I don't care if the Sequels were planned to the minute detail or not. And we shouldn't either. What matters is if it works for you or me. It obviously doesn't work for you, that's okay. But it does work for me. I like the Sequels. (No surprise there :p) But heck I like pretty all of Star Wars. Legends, Canon, everything.
 

Jaitea

Master Member
This is going to be the last word I say on this for a time. I'm getting tired of it. But I owe a reply.

Yes they had a plan. We've been over this. They had a beginning, they had a middle, they had an end. But as JJ just recently said. Sometimes you end up sticking to your plan. Sometimes you end deviating from your plan, while developing. This is because sometimes you bring on a new writer with new ideas, say like Rian or Chris. Sometimes it's because the original author or authors has changed his mind on where things are going and how they are going, like George did with his two trilogies. And sometimes it's because an actress that plays an important role tragically passes away. These all will effect the 'plan.' And so they don't rigidly adhere the their 'plan.'

That is key issue, it isn't it they had a plan, because they did. It's how much did they adhere their original plan. And answer is. Yes and no. Some parts of they stuck to. Some parts they deviated from. But it all came about from endless writing a discussions. For instance you mention Han and Leia. Yes Michael Ardnt did at one time try to have Han and Leia come back together. But the original idea was to kill Han. George literally told Harrison that over the phone as a way to get him back. And by June 2013, that seems to have been a done deal, Han was die, that's still with Michael Ardnt. View attachment 1465177


What Rian said is for the most part true. There was no story mapped out, you can have a 'plan' without a story. You can say, 'plan' that Ben will return to the light, in the last episode. But that isn't story. Or that Rey's parentage won't be revealed until the last episode. Story, is the who, what, when, where, how, etc. That is a story. (Note Rian is carful to point out that he didn't know about Ben, not Kylo was going to die. I think we can safely assume he knew of Kylo's ending. You also have to wonder if he was told that Ben could die. Rian wouldn't known for sure that he would die. These guys are always real political in their choice of words during an interview.) When a filmmaker comes in, Lucasfilm comes along side, to help them hone the story. It's a collaborative effort, the filmmaker get to make the story that they feel strongly about, and Lucasfilm gets their next installment. They work together. And Rian seems to have been the favorite to work with.

And to touch on your holy MCU. Not even they plan out the 'story.' Marvel Studios works in a similar fashion to Lucasfilm. Coming alongside and collaborating with the filmmakers, to help them make their film. Not the other way around.

It's also worth pointing out, that Marvel had no long term plan, or it changed, part way through. The 'Infinity War Saga' was not planned from the beginning. Though through clever marketing and film writing they'd like to make you believe it was. But we can see it wasn't. The Infinity Gauntlet in Thor was retconned. The Cosmic Cube was retconned to contain the Space Stone. Loki's scepter was retconned into containing the Mind Stone. And the Aether was retconned into the Reality Stone. They wrote Captain America having a relationship with his girlfriends niece, which weird enough. Then to reveal that he actually was in a relationship with HIS own niece! Trying for Star Wars type incest?

Bottom line. I don't care if the Sequels were planned to the minute detail or not. And we shouldn't either. What matters is if it works for you or me. It obviously doesn't work for you, that's okay. But it does work for me. I like the Sequels. (No surprise there :p) But heck I like pretty all of Star Wars. Legends, Canon, everything.

So is that your final word then?

I think the Disney films are poorly conceived apart from Rogue One, they have no soul, they contradict each other & you can easily see they are a cash grab

Everyone should remember they weren’t made by Lucas, they are a knock off

#trashdisneystarwars

J
 

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Ron

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
They wrote Captain America having a relationship with his girlfriends niece, which weird enough. Then to reveal that he actually was in a relationship with HIS own niece! Trying for Star Wars type incest?
Wait, when did that happen? Because he went back in time to be with Peggy? Wouldn't that have been an alternate timeline that didn't affect the prime MCU timeline? (Which also means he went back to an alternate Peggy and not 'his' Peggy. Yeah, Endgame wasn't the greatest)
 

Joek3rr

Sr Member
Wait, when did that happen? Because he went back in time to be with Peggy? Wouldn't that have been an alternate timeline that didn't affect the prime MCU timeline? (Which also means he went back to an alternate Peggy and not 'his' Peggy. Yeah, Endgame wasn't the greatest)
The writers said that is the same timeline. And that when Peggy is talking about Steve saving the man that would become her husband, she's referring to Steve. They also say that not everyone agrees with them. And I can see why! Geeze it's just makes Steve and Sharon's relationship weird(er?).
 

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Usagi Pilgrim

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The writers said that is the same timeline. And that when Peggy is talking about Steve saving the man that would become her husband, she's referring to Steve. They also say that not everyone agrees with them. And I can see why! Geeze it's just makes Steve and Sharon's relationship weird(er?).
There was no blood relation. Why would it have been weird?
 

ScourgiousJinx

Well-Known Member
Baiting happens both ways. If people really want this topic to be done just let it go and literally don't mention it even in a joke, even if it's a really funny joke lol. Say what what you want but don't be surprised if the conversation continues if it's instigated.
 
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Ron

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Because Steve is her uncle Talk about a creepy uncle.....

Correction his her great uncle. Still it's weird. I don't care for it.
If that's the case it's creepy on her end knowing that Steve would eventually become her uncle. But Steve is in the clear on his end lol.
 

harrisonp

Sr Member
They established in Endgame that you can’t change the past and affect the present beyond creating the decay that The Ancient One explains regarding the Stones. Anything you do while time traveling becomes your “future”. The cap and Sharon thing isn’t a thing because at the time of their slight romance he wasn’t her “uncle” yet. Our Endgame Cap went back and lived out his years with Peggy but it didn’t alter anything and he wasn’t Sharon’s blood relative. Now the ramifications of him going back to Peggy after kissing Sharon are a little weird, but I’m sure she was just happy to have him back etc.

Idk man time travel sucks
 

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