Lets talk all things Star Wars

[cboath]

Except when they tried it didn't really work.

It sounded way out of place to hear Luke say 'Darth Sidious'. I know, supposedly he got that from talking to Yoda in the prior 30 years. Been a good while since i say ROTS, but i think in the prequels you had dooku say lord sidious a time or two. I don't' think anyone outside of the 'there can only be two' utter the name, so how would Yoda know it to tell luke? Not to mention, Luke spent his whole life knowing the guy as 'The Emperor'.

Lando didn't mention L3 in ESB or ROTJ either. Now, we all know that's because L3 wasn't created for another 30 years, but if he was going to say that, it was then, not 30 years later.

 

[harrisonp]

I just watched Rebels Twilight of the Apprentice 1&2 and I legitimately got choked up when

Spoiler: Spoiler

Anakin comes through for a moment as Vader Ahsoka face off

. I ignored the show for a long time but I put it up there on the required watching list now.

 

[Psab keel]

I tend to think of each trilogy mostly as their own self contained stories, which is why I find constant call backs annoying if they aren't relevant to what is happening in the scene or characters otherwise it's just a pointless exposition dump. Though there is something to be said for having an overarching consistency in the narrative.

Star Wars, as much as I love it, has never been that good with keeping a steady through line if you look at the entire film series.

 

[Pepperbone]

My bigger problem was that Lando never mentioned her in TRoS.

I believe this may be a direct result of internal post-release market research.
What I know for certain is that it'll take a while before L3 returns or is referenced.

 

[harrisonp]

I just never saw the problem with L3. There are far more questionable things in Solo (a movie I do like) than a droid who has gone a little haywire. In reality if I’m going to complain about her it’s the “Falcon brain” plot point, not her actual characterization. I don’t care for those types of retcons that are supposed to leave us thinking about them next time we watch the OT.

I like Rogue One a lot but I don’t need to think about their deaths every time I watch ANH.

 

[Pepperbone]

Personally, I have no major issues with any of it. In general, I simply love SW, especially for it's tremendous contribution to my own imagination as I was growing up. I prefer the original 3 movies plus the 2 projects adjacent to them (R1 and Mandalorian) more than anything else, but I'm more than okay with the rest.

It goes without saying that currently there's a lot of noise regarding social issues. Not that some of these issues aren't important, it's just that as individuals, we can't spend all our free time trying to resolve them. We need balance. And it's been increasingly difficult to find areas where that noise doesn't resonate all the time. And because there have been less spaces to balance things out - to momentarily escape the noise and enjoy the present - there's been an erosion of patience (and tolerance, and understanding, and humor, and on and on) when that noise spills into areas that should be without it. So when we try to take a break from the constant news cycle dramatizing current social justice issues by escaping to the movies for a few hours, and we end up witnessing a character echoing the noise from outside; that's when audiences get irritated. There are ways to convey social messages in entertainment, but the way L3 was written might have been too obvious, and came at a time when a lot of people didn't want it. And it's taken a while for corporations, studios, sports leagues and other entertainment providers to realize that a break from the noise is why people buy tickets.

The NBA is painfully going through it right now, the NFL's been in it for a few years, and SW - a religion for a lot of fans - has been in part negatively impacted by the incorporation of that noise, in that way, and at this time. There are other issues with the franchise but I think lessons were learned and positive efforts are in the works (I hope).

 

[Halliwax]

Twitter is one of the worst things invented by humans. I honestly don't understand the appeal.

All social media... expect forums! Forums are cool!

 

[cboath]

I just watched Rebels Twilight of the Apprentice 1&2 and I legitimately got choked up when

Spoiler: Spoiler

Anakin comes through for a moment as Vader Ahsoka face off

. I ignored the show for a long time but I put it up there on the required watching list now.

The shot of vader descending on the tie fighter is also one of the coolest shots in the franchise IMO.

 

[harrisonp]

The shot of vader descending on the tie fighter is also one of the coolest shots in the franchise IMO.

It’s just the right amount of cheese and awesome for him, such a theatrical diva lol

 

[Psab keel]

Personally, I have no major issues with any of it. In general, I simply love SW, especially for it's tremendous contribution to my own imagination as I was growing up. I prefer the original 3 movies plus the 2 projects adjacent to them (R1 and Mandalorian) more than anything else, but I'm more than okay with the rest.

It goes without saying that currently there's a lot of noise regarding social issues. Not that some of these issues aren't important, it's just that as individuals, we can't spend all our free time trying to resolve them. We need balance. And it's been increasingly difficult to find areas where that noise doesn't resonate all the time. And because there have been less spaces to balance things out - to momentarily escape the noise and enjoy the present - there's been an erosion of patience (and tolerance, and understanding, and humor, and on and on) when that noise spills into areas that should be without it. So when we try to take a break from the constant news cycle dramatizing current social justice issues by escaping to the movies for a few hours, and we end up witnessing a character echoing the noise from outside; that's when audiences get irritated. There are ways to convey social messages in entertainment, but the way L3 was written might have been too obvious, and came at a time when a lot of people didn't want it. And it's taken a while for corporations, studios, sports leagues and other entertainment providers to realize that a break from the noise is why people buy tickets.

The NBA is painfully going through it right now, the NFL's been in it for a few years, and SW - a religion for a lot of fans - has been in part negatively impacted by the incorporation of that noise, in that way, and at this time. There are other issues with the franchise but I think lessons were learned and positive efforts are in the works (I hope).

This is so spot on!

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Except when they tried it didn't really work.

It sounded way out of place to hear Luke say 'Darth Sidious'. I know, supposedly he got that from talking to Yoda in the prior 30 years. Been a good while since i say ROTS, but i think in the prequels you had dooku say lord sidious a time or two. I don't' think anyone outside of the 'there can only be two' utter the name, so how would Yoda know it to tell luke? Not to mention, Luke spent his whole life knowing the guy as 'The Emperor'.

Lando didn't mention L3 in ESB or ROTJ either. Now, we all know that's because L3 wasn't created for another 30 years, but if he was going to say that, it was then, not 30 years later.

I didn't watch that movie, but if I was Luke I'd be more pissed that Yoda mentioned what the Emperor's real name was, yet forgot to mention he could shoot Force Lightning and that Luke could have caught it on his lightsaber... After watching the Prequels I always imagined Obi-Wan was watching that play out, saw Luke throw his lightsaber away, get hit by lightning, and muttering "Dumb*ss...".

 

[JoeG]

I didn't watch that movie, but if I was Luke I'd be more pissed that Yoda mentioned what the Emperor's real name was, yet forgot to mention he could shoot Force Lightning and that Luke could have caught it on his lightsaber... After watching the Prequels I always imagined Obi-Wan was watching that play out, saw Luke throw his lightsaber away, get hit by lightning, and muttering "Dumb*ss...".

Obi Wan as played by Red Forman.

 

[RedheadKevin]

I'm assuming that just because Palpatine was never named in the OT that people didn't know his name. You wouldn't just know a leader as "The President" or "The King." People would at least know his name, even if they didn't say it. And Yoda knew that Chancellor/Emperor Palpatine was known as Darth Sidious. Presumably Luke could also have learned of this name after Endor. But yeah, there's no excuse for not teaching Luke that Force Lightning could have been blocked by a lightsaber. Except that maybe Yoda knew that Luke would need that kind of pain to reach Anakin. In that case, a giant A-hole, Yoda is.

 

[Psab keel]

The Emperor throwing Force lightning at Luke was a shock to me as a kid. (I love a good pun. ) I remember thinking he was scary looking and that he clearly must have been powerful to have such a hold over Vader but to know that he could manifest lightning and use it as a weapon just made him that much more threatening. Plus it stacked the odds against Luke and Vader both which helped me get even more invested in how they would defeat him.

The problem with creating these films out of chronological order is that it creates all these micro continuity errors that leave lingering questions for a lot of fans. That's an even bigger problem when you consider how detail obsessed this particular fandom can be. While some are less egregious than others, there are times when those retcons can undo the narrative if you pull those loose threads too hard. Telling fans to dismiss them and just have fun isn't helpful if they can't get past them, but it's also not always relevant enough to try and explain it either. Like I said before, if a reference to earlier films isn't relevant to a scene or character then it feels like an unnecessary exposition dump which will pull you right out of the scene and bore the audience.

For instance, why didn't Obi-Wan warn Luke that the Emperor could throw lightning at him and that he could block it with his lightsaber? Well the real world answer is obviously it hadn't been thought of yet. Not to mention it undermines the emotional resonance of Luke throwing his weapon aside to prove he is willing to die for his beliefs. Which is the culmination of Luke's entire character arc. He became a Jedi and in the crucial moment his conviction is what makes him a hero, not his special Force powers. This is why I hold that film in such high regard and why I can forgive it it's few shortcomings because those scenes are the emotional lynch pin that holds the entire original trilogy together.

Could you imagine how out of place it would feel for Yoda or Obi-Wan to tell Luke about the lightning during their scenes together on Dagobah?

"Your father he is. Oh by the way, watch out for that Sith lightning when you face off with Palpatine, and by the way his name is Sheev Palpatine. Or Darth Sidious. You know funny thing about that. Darth is a title, not just a name. Those pesky Sith lords, just a fancy name for guys who use the Dark Side, they can throw lightning and lift things with their minds too. Just be wary because that lightning stings, but you can block it with your lightsaber the same way you deflect blaster bolts."

"It can kill you but not really if the plot necessitates it or you need a cool visual. Mace Windu deflected that **** right back into Sheev's face. Funny thing that, it just warped his face into a prune but when Rey does the same thing to him with TWO lightsabers in a few decades it will get him to explode and die for good because she's All the Jedi and the awesomeist. But that's only after Vader will turn on old Sheev in a few days time from this very moment I'm telling you all this. Then there's the whole Death Star 2 exploding and how does old Sheev make it out there after being thrown down a well. I can tell by the look on your face you have no idea what any of this means. Yeahhhhhhh..... I'm just gonna lay here for a few minutes and snuggle up in my blanket. There's soup in the pot over the fire if you get hungry. I'll just be over here dying of old age." -Yoda to Luke

*Luke walks out of the hut, takes R2 and flies off to Boca Ratan to get away from that crazy little elf....

 

[RedheadKevin]

"Unfortunate that you rushed to face him. That incomplete was your training. That not ready for the burden were you."
"Only a fully-trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor."
Luke left before he could be taught more advanced stuff like how to defend against Force Lightning. Not a good explanation, but it works in-universe.
(And yes, although Yoda was right about the damage that would be done when Luke left his training, wrong he was about who could ultimately defeat the Emperor.)

 

[cboath]

"Unfortunate that you rushed to face him. That incomplete was your training. That not ready for the burden were you."
"Only a fully-trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor."
Luke left before he could be taught more advanced stuff like how to defend against Force Lightning. Not a good explanation, but it works in-universe.
(And yes, although Yoda was right about the damage that would be done when Luke left his training, wrong he was about who could ultimately defeat the Emperor.)

The first time, not the second. He returned and yoda says 'already learned that which you need'.

As for his name, the world has plenty of countries with kings/queens. They're all named. People say just 'Queen', yes, but the say 'Queen Elizabeth' just as much. As for his name part II, it'd be Palpatine, or fully Sheev Palpatine. Forgetting that the first name was created 20 some years after ROTJ - even if luke knew his name, he'd know him as Emperor Sheev Palpatine, not Darth Sidious.

 

[RedheadKevin]

I said this before, but when Yoda told Luke he already knew what he needed, I interpret that scene to be "Well, the cat's out of the bag about your father. I guess preparing you for that emotional blow would be a waste of time now. Also, I'm about to die, and I don't want you going to fight Vader and Sidious alone with doubts about your training."
As for the Emperor's name, when Brits for example, talk about The Queen, they can just say "The Queen." We know it's Elizabeth. You don't have to name her in every conversation. Maybe his name was like Voldemort, and people didn't like saying it. But Palpatine's name and backstory came from the original 1977 novelization of Star Wars. "Sheev" came much later. As did "Darth Sidious." This is why the Emperor is never called those names in the OT. But "Palpatine" was around since the beginning. So the big twist that he's the bad guy was telegraphed as soon as they first said his name in Episode 1. If we didn't know all the way back in TPM, then the reveal in Revenge of the Sith would have been much more dramatic.

 

[Bigdaddy]

"Palpatine" was around since the beginning. So the big twist that he's the bad guy was telegraphed as soon as they first said his name in Episode 1. If we didn't know all the way back in TPM, then the reveal in Revenge of the Sith would have been much more dramatic.

The fact that Ian McDiarmid was in the movie pretty much ruined that "twist" even if the name Palpatine had never been uttered. Not too mention he plays the character way too on the nose from the start. Don't get me wrong, seeing IM chew the scenery is one of the best things about the PT but his character was a creep from the get go.
It's tough to try and work any big plot twist into a prequel without retconning what the audience already knows.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

For instance, why didn't Obi-Wan warn Luke that the Emperor could throw lightning at him and that he could block it with his lightsaber? Well the real world answer is obviously it hadn't been thought of yet. Not to mention it undermines the emotional resonance of Luke throwing his weapon aside to prove he is willing to die for his beliefs. Which is the culmination of Luke's entire character arc. He became a Jedi and in the crucial moment his conviction is what makes him a hero, not his special Force powers. This is why I hold that film in such high regard and why I can forgive it it's few shortcomings because those scenes are the emotional lynch pin that holds the entire original trilogy together.

You sort of answered your own question but don’t really understand it. Obi or Yoda probably did tell Luke but at that point Luke didn’t care. He didn’t think he was out of harms way when he tossed his saber, he was making a statement. The same way the good guy in a western or a crime drama drops his weapon because the bad guy is trying to get them to do their bidding even though the bad guy still has theirs weapon.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

The fact that Ian McDiarmid was in the movie pretty much ruined that "twist" even if the name Palpatine had never been uttered. Not too mention he plays the character way too on the nose from the start. Don't get me wrong, seeing IM chew the scenery is one of the best things about the PT but his character was a creep from the get go.
It's tough to try and work any big plot twist into a prequel without retconning what the audience already knows.

But that aspect was never meant to be a surprise. Just like no one was surprised that Anakin turned to the dark side and became Vader. It like going to a Superman movie and being upset that you knew Clark Kent was really Superman from the start of the movie. The story is about how those things came to be.

A twist would have been if Palpatine and Sidious were two separate people.