Lets talk all things Star Wars
Bigdaddy
Master Member
That's how they work in Battlefront II (PS2), it's a two seater ship. Trying to bomb a ship with it is a suicide mission without having my daughter as my gunner.
Joek3rr
Master Member
In my book they show just that. I'll take some pictures when I get home.
Joek3rr
Master Member
It's always been a gun turret.
I mean they have droids, and computerized targeting systems. I don't see why the two rear Y-wings couldn't have used their turrets. Hence the Legends explanation that the ion cannons are finicky.
Well, Ralph's original illustrations showed us a craft much like the one in early Clone Wars -- rear gunner in a big bubble turret. As it got refined, they ditched the back seat due to the added cost in set-building that would've meant, scaled down the turret to not look so out-of-place, and kept the guns as a lighter backup to the main front-facing cannons. Somewhere in there came a snippet of lore that in keeping them steerable while removing the gunner (still present in the two-seat version), it created too much of a distraction for many pilots and on most ships the turret lasers were fixed forward to supplement or back up the main guns. But some pilots had the mechanics fix them facing back to cover an otherwise blind arc. Alas, again, none of those were in the first trench run.
I think West End Games, in '87, were the first to make them ion cannons, which carried over to the X-Wing video game, and so on from there.
In my personal "from a certain point of view" take on things, I like to say that, as a turret-mounted weapon, it's far easier to swap between the two, and that by the time of the Battle of Yavin, some had lasers, some ion cannons, mostly due to pilot preference. With all the EU and animated series have added, I'd love to see a "remastered" battle where some of the Y-Wings are two-seaters, some are one-seaters, some have ion cannons in the turrets, some lasers, some gunnerless ships with the turrets fixed toward the back... I like that the Rebel craft they made were all decoed uniquely (prior to the Special Edition), but at the same time I feel an opportunity was missed to visually show the difference between the clean and uniform Empire and the cobbled-together Rebellion with more physical variation between craft...
And more craft in general -- that Stormtrooper officer did mention thirty Rebel ships, of which we only ever saw twelve or so. Given the mixed fighter squadron/groups in ROTJ, I like to think Red Jammer was always just offscreen as, say, Red Seven or Nine -- heard calling in, but never shown. The only physical ships built for the hangar were one X-Wing decoed as Red One, and one Y-Wing with yellow markings based on the Red Jammer (none of the Gold Group filming miniatures except Red Jammer have that one gray panel on the left side of the nose). So I have to discount who's climbing into which ship -- they're all Red One or Gold [mumble] (and, further, Red One has Artoo in the droid socket for all the shots of other pilots getting aboard, and the Y-Wing has the non-droid domed lump aft of the cockpit seen on the early miniature). But the background pilots running around and mounting up as engines are spooling up with the blue-anchor helmets? Two get in the X-Wing and one gets in the Y-Wing (everything is quick intercuts between those three extras). Some two-seat Y-Wings or even a Z-95 Headhunter or two would make things more interesting. But anyway.
[Sidebar: Ugh. ******* George. Just rewatched the Battle of Yavin from the hangar through the check-in to verify which Red Group pilots call un but we never see in any form. I pay more attention to the background elements these days, like the Arabic numbers counting down on the Death Star's main tactical screen to where the full-scale fighters are placed as backdrops for the characters' interactions in the hangar -- and noting continuity glitches therein -- and just noticed a new (to me) bit of PA gabble: "Gold Squadron, begin takeoff procedure." This is on Disney+. I'm not where I can check on any of my other versions of the film at the moment, so if someone felt like revisiting the scene (when Artoo is getting loaded in Luke's fighter as he's boarding) and letting me know if I just missed it all these years, I'd appreciate it. I know all the sound mixes, and how some things got lost for years because it was a rear-channel track that got dropped from home-video, etc., but none of the gabble is in the script, so I don't know if it's original or new with this version. It would be the only time the word "squadron" shows up in Star Wars -- everywhere else it's "group". Ugh.]
I think West End Games, in '87, were the first to make them ion cannons, which carried over to the X-Wing video game, and so on from there.
In my personal "from a certain point of view" take on things, I like to say that, as a turret-mounted weapon, it's far easier to swap between the two, and that by the time of the Battle of Yavin, some had lasers, some ion cannons, mostly due to pilot preference. With all the EU and animated series have added, I'd love to see a "remastered" battle where some of the Y-Wings are two-seaters, some are one-seaters, some have ion cannons in the turrets, some lasers, some gunnerless ships with the turrets fixed toward the back... I like that the Rebel craft they made were all decoed uniquely (prior to the Special Edition), but at the same time I feel an opportunity was missed to visually show the difference between the clean and uniform Empire and the cobbled-together Rebellion with more physical variation between craft...
And more craft in general -- that Stormtrooper officer did mention thirty Rebel ships, of which we only ever saw twelve or so. Given the mixed fighter squadron/groups in ROTJ, I like to think Red Jammer was always just offscreen as, say, Red Seven or Nine -- heard calling in, but never shown. The only physical ships built for the hangar were one X-Wing decoed as Red One, and one Y-Wing with yellow markings based on the Red Jammer (none of the Gold Group filming miniatures except Red Jammer have that one gray panel on the left side of the nose). So I have to discount who's climbing into which ship -- they're all Red One or Gold [mumble] (and, further, Red One has Artoo in the droid socket for all the shots of other pilots getting aboard, and the Y-Wing has the non-droid domed lump aft of the cockpit seen on the early miniature). But the background pilots running around and mounting up as engines are spooling up with the blue-anchor helmets? Two get in the X-Wing and one gets in the Y-Wing (everything is quick intercuts between those three extras). Some two-seat Y-Wings or even a Z-95 Headhunter or two would make things more interesting. But anyway.
[Sidebar: Ugh. ******* George. Just rewatched the Battle of Yavin from the hangar through the check-in to verify which Red Group pilots call un but we never see in any form. I pay more attention to the background elements these days, like the Arabic numbers counting down on the Death Star's main tactical screen to where the full-scale fighters are placed as backdrops for the characters' interactions in the hangar -- and noting continuity glitches therein -- and just noticed a new (to me) bit of PA gabble: "Gold Squadron, begin takeoff procedure." This is on Disney+. I'm not where I can check on any of my other versions of the film at the moment, so if someone felt like revisiting the scene (when Artoo is getting loaded in Luke's fighter as he's boarding) and letting me know if I just missed it all these years, I'd appreciate it. I know all the sound mixes, and how some things got lost for years because it was a rear-channel track that got dropped from home-video, etc., but none of the gabble is in the script, so I don't know if it's original or new with this version. It would be the only time the word "squadron" shows up in Star Wars -- everywhere else it's "group". Ugh.]
Joek3rr
Master Member
I have the digital versions from iTunes. And the Gold Squadron is definitely called out.
That's still the most recent edition, though, right? I need to dust off and hook up my VCR and LDP to check my Special Edition video tapes and ILM Definitive Edition (
) LDs and can't at present. Trying to see if it was there pre-2010, pre-2004, pre-1997...
Joek3rr
Master Member
It doesn't have "muclunky" added in. So it's the second most recent release.That's still the most recent edition, though, right? I need to dust off and hook up my VCR and LDP to check my Special Edition video tapes and ILM Definitive Edition (
ThreadSketch
Well-Known Member
That's still the most recent edition, though, right? I need to dust off and hook up my VCR and LDP to check my Special Edition video tapes and ILM Definitive Edition (
Yo, I just busted out SW Despecialized and the "Gold Squadron" blurb is in there. Dunno if that helps any. (I'm guessing not, since it was cobbled from so many sources.)
robn1
Master Member
It's in the 4K77 version, just as Luke is climbing into the cockpit. It's also in the DVD "bonus" LD cut.
That's starting to seem fairly definitive it's a channel that wasn't included on the VHS tapes I wore out as a kid, but dates all the way back. So now we have canon evidence in the original film that George uses squadron and group interchangeably. *sigh* Yippee...
robn1
Master Member
4K77 includes the 35mm mono and stereo tracks as well as the 70mm six track and the line is in all of them.
Solo4114
Master Member
The old lore re: Y-wings is that they varied based on the model.
The original model is introduced as a fighter-bomber during the clone wars and has all its panels. You can see this in the Clone Wars cartoon, actually. That model did indeed include a rear-facing gunner, mimicking the function of gunners such as those in the Ju-87, Me-110, the TBF Avenger, and various other torpedo bombers from WWII.
Later models apparently did away with the rear-facing gunner, and locked the guns forward because the auto-targeting system was finicky and didn't always work right.
In gaming history, the X-wing/TIE Fighter series of games locks the guns forward, as does every other iteration I've ever played, up until Star Wars Battlefront II (2005) where you can mount a second rear-facing gunner. In Battlefront 2 (2017) the guns auto-track and are a special ability (and my personal favorite ship in the game).
But yeah, they eventually invented in-world canon to explain the cannons.
The original model is introduced as a fighter-bomber during the clone wars and has all its panels. You can see this in the Clone Wars cartoon, actually. That model did indeed include a rear-facing gunner, mimicking the function of gunners such as those in the Ju-87, Me-110, the TBF Avenger, and various other torpedo bombers from WWII.
Later models apparently did away with the rear-facing gunner, and locked the guns forward because the auto-targeting system was finicky and didn't always work right.
In gaming history, the X-wing/TIE Fighter series of games locks the guns forward, as does every other iteration I've ever played, up until Star Wars Battlefront II (2005) where you can mount a second rear-facing gunner. In Battlefront 2 (2017) the guns auto-track and are a special ability (and my personal favorite ship in the game).
But yeah, they eventually invented in-world canon to explain the cannons.
Mark Hamill talks EMPIRE
Joek3rr
Master Member
It's also interesting to note. That Snowspeeder at one point was going to be a modified Y-wing cockpit.
Joek3rr
Master Member
I love the Y-Wing in both Battlefronts.The old lore re: Y-wings is that they varied based on the model.
The original model is introduced as a fighter-bomber during the clone wars and has all its panels. You can see this in the Clone Wars cartoon, actually. That model did indeed include a rear-facing gunner, mimicking the function of gunners such as those in the Ju-87, Me-110, the TBF Avenger, and various other torpedo bombers from WWII.
Later models apparently did away with the rear-facing gunner, and locked the guns forward because the auto-targeting system was finicky and didn't always work right.
In gaming history, the X-wing/TIE Fighter series of games locks the guns forward, as does every other iteration I've ever played, up until Star Wars Battlefront II (2005) where you can mount a second rear-facing gunner. In Battlefront 2 (2017) the guns auto-track and are a special ability (and my personal favorite ship in the game).
But yeah, they eventually invented in-world canon to explain the cannons.
What do you think of Star Wars Squadrons? I was recently playing X-wing Alliance when the announced the game. So I'm on Rebel Starship high right now.
ThreadSketch
Well-Known Member
Random thought for the day, how does Boba Fett's cape not catch fire when he uses his jetpack? My in-universe explanation is it's fire-resistant.
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