Accident on the set of Rust.

[ghostryder]

​

Yeah dude, we get it. But as much as you want this to be AB’s “fault,” it doesn’t actually make it so. There are multiple factors involved in prop weapon chain-of-custody as well as legal and contractual responsibility specific to productions that make such assumptions erroneous.

 

[JPH]

Can we all agree that the head armourer should probably leave this film out of her CV?

Which one?

The first one they let go or the second?

 

[ghostryder]

Search warrant reveals grim details of 'Rust' shooting and Halyna Hutchins' final minutes

Before the revolver fired, Alec Baldwin was rehearsing how to point it toward the camera, says an affidavit laying out new details of the shooting.

www.yahoo.com

Actor Alec Baldwin was practicing removing a revolver from its holster and aiming toward the camera during rehearsal for the movie "Rust" when director Joel Souza heard "what sounded like a whip and then a loud pop," according to a search warrant obtained by the Los Angeles Times on Sunday night that also provided grim new details about the final minutes of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins' life.

In the newly released document Souza said someone identified the weapon as a "cold gun," meaning it did not have any live rounds. But instead the gun discharged, striking Hutchins in her chest and Souza in his right shoulder, according to a Santa Fe County, N.M., sheriff's detective's affidavit used to obtain a search warrant. Hutchins was pronounced dead at an Albuquerque hospital.

Souza's statement to the detective offered a new window into the on-set shooting Thursday that has left Hollywood reeling and calling for safer working conditions on sets.

The shooting took place after six members of the film's crew walked off the set after complaining to the production company about payment and housing, camera operator Reid Russell told Det. Joel Cano. The affidavit offered the most detailed chronology yet of an unfolding tragedy.

The day started late because the production hired another camera crew and was working with only one camera, Souza told the detective.

Souza said three people were handling the gun for the scene: armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed, then assistant director Dave Halls, who handed the gun to Baldwin, the affidavit said.

Halls had taken one of three prop guns set up by Gutierrez Reed on a cart left outside the structure because of COVID-19 restrictions, the affidavit said. Halls did not know live rounds were in the gun when he handed it to Baldwin, and Halls yelled "cold gun," according to the affidavit.

Souza said cast and crew were preparing the scene before lunch but then had a meal away from the rehearsal area around 12:30 p.m., according to the affidavit. When they returned, Souza said, he wasn't sure if the gun was checked again, the affidavit said.

"Joel said as far as he knows, no one gets checked for live ammunition on their person prior and after the scenes are being filmed," the affidavit said. "The only thing checked are the firearms to avoid live ammunition being in them. Joel stated there should never be live rounds whatsoever, near or around the scene."

When they came back from lunch, a creeping shadow prompted the camera to be moved to a different angle, Russell said in the affidavit. As Baldwin was explaining how he was going to draw his gun and where his arm would be when he pulled the gun from the holster, it discharged, Russell said.

Souza said he was looking over Hutchins' shoulder when the gun discharged. Hutchins grabbed her midsection, stumbled backward and "was assisted to the ground," Souza told the detective.

The search warrant said Russell recalled hearing a loud bang, seeing a bloody Souza and hearing Hutchins say she couldn't feel her legs.

The shooting came after crew members raised concerns about safety conditions on set. Two "Rust" crew members told the L.A. Times that, less than a week earlier, a stunt double had fired two accidental prop gun discharges after being told the gun was "cold."

Rust Movie Productions said in a statement that the safety of its cast and crew is "the top priority" and it was not aware of official complaints raised about weapon safety and will conduct an internal review. On Sunday, the production company said it would shut down the film's production during the investigation but did not rule out restarting.

Hutchins' death follows other accidents that have happened on TV and movie sets. Some in Hollywood and the greater community have called for sets to no longer have operational firearms, especially as muzzle fire could be added through post production. A California state senator has announced plans to propose legislation to ban live ammunition and firearms capable of shooting live ammunition on Hollywood productions in California.

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

Man... I hate to even have this thought, but does the possibility exist that this was a deliberate act from some of the disgruntled crew? Not necessarily meaning to actually kill someone, but to sabotage the production or just to get it shut down completely?

 

[Ron]

Man... I hate to even have this thought, but does the possibility exist that this was a deliberate act from some of the disgruntled crew? Not necessarily meaning to actually kill someone, but to sabotage the production or just to get it shut down completely?

I had the same thought. It is a possibility however unlikely and one that investigators will definitely consider.

 

[JPH]

There were issues with cost and complaints because they removed Union members.

Also prior firearm issues on the set.

Why use a noob weaponsmaster when you are already having issues? Recipe for bad stuff.

The wisest choice would be to Hire the best, most professional cleanup person/ weaponsmaster you can

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

There were issues with cost and complaints because they removed Union members.

Also prior firearm issues on the set.

Why use a noob weaponsmaster when you are already having issues? Recipe for bad stuff.

The wisest choice would be to Hire the best, most professional cleanup person/ weaponsmaster you can

That's what would make sense, but if the absolute 'Best in the World' were to be hired, it would make NO difference if they weren't allowed to properly do their job.

Seems to have been a fair amount of cost/corner cutting on this production.

 

[JPH]

That's what would make sense, but if the absolute 'Best in the World' were to be hired, it would make NO difference if they weren't allowed to properly do their job.

Seems to have been a fair amount of cost/corner cutting on this production.

Agreed. Once the gun is in someone else's hands...

or worse yet, if someone brought in their *OWN* gun, then if something goes wrong, the weaponsmaster just becomes a potential fall guy.

NOTE: someone asked about where the weaponsmaster was, would it even matter if the AD is bringing in stuff and handing it out?

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

Agreed. Once the gun is in someone else's hands...

or worse yet, if someone brought in their *OWN* gun, then if something goes wrong, the weaponsmaster just becomes a potential fall guy.

NOTE: someone asked about where the weaponsmaster was, would it even matter if the AD is bringing in stuff and handing it out?

If they read the post about the sworn affidavit from the director, it says because of Covid protocols, the guns were left on a cart then picked up & brought to the set. THEN THEY WENT TO LUNCH!!!

He says he has no idea if they were checked again.

 

[dascoyne]

I’m sure Baldwin wasn’t the only producer either. These days, more often than not, the lead actors are always in the credits as “executive producer”. And you usually see about 20 producers on a production. So again, to place all blame on AB, and using the excuse, “well he was the producer after all”, is wrong. As so many have said, AB was the last link in a long chain of failures here.

In response to the assertion that Alec Baldwin's culpability as a producer is diluted because he is one of a number of other producers in the film:
Is it any different that he was an executive producer? I honestly don't know, but it would seem that way, no? There aren't more than one or two of those attached to a production, are there?

And, for what it is worth, Dust was produced for the Cannes inaugural digital market under the El Dorado Pictures banner. This is what I just just found online:

This isn't looking good for the actor/producer.

 

[Lear60man]

Sorry for not going through he entire thread. But has anyone posted the SAG AFTRA firearms guidelines yet?

https://www.sagaftra.org/files/safety_bulletins_amptp_part_1_9_3_0.pdf

After reading through it, a first year law student would have a field day in court. Baldwin the actor will do a few anti gun PSA commercials and be fine. Baldwin the Producer is in for a legal lashing.

 

[ghostryder]

‘Rust’ Tragedy Reflects Troubling Trends on Movie and TV Sets: ‘We Did This to Ourselves’

After the "Rust" death of Halyna Hutchins, industry veterans cite troubling trends that are reflected in the making of the low-budget movie.

variety.com

 

[JoeG]

This section from the Variety article seems to answer the question of responsibility among people credited as producer on the film:

There’s little question that the “Rust” tragedy will yield litigation, probably for years to come. But the question of final liability can be tricky, Harris said, because producers who merely invested in the movie may not be culpable unless it can be demonstrated that some action on their part led to problems on the set.

 

[DarthWilder]

Sorry for not going through he entire thread. But has anyone posted the SAG AFTRA firearms guidelines yet?

https://www.sagaftra.org/files/safety_bulletins_amptp_part_1_9_3_0.pdf

"AS AN ACTOR, YOU ARE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY AND THE SAFETY OF YOUR FELLOW CAST MEMBERS. Production management and crew are responsible for creating and maintaining safe conditions, but it is your right and responsibility to double check the set up to ensure your own Safety."

"Treat all weapons as though they are loaded and/or ready to use. Do not play with weapons and never point one at anyone, including yourself."

"No one shall be issued a firearm until he or she is trained in safe handling, safe use, the safety lock, and proper firing procedures."

 

[Moviefreak]

In response to the assertion that Alec Baldwin's culpability as a producer is diluted because he is one of a number of other producers in the film:
Is it any different that he was an executive producer? I honestly don't know, but it would seem that way, no? There aren't more than one or two of those attached to a production, are there?

And, for what it is worth, Dust was produced for the Cannes inaugural digital market under the El Dorado Pictures banner. This is what I just just found online:

View attachment 1506352

This isn't looking good for the actor/producer.

to answer that, there are often more than one or two executive producers. Just for fun, I pulled up the credit list for the latest DUNE movie as that was the first film to pop in my mind. That film has 10 executive producers. 5 producers. 1 line producer. 1 associate producer. And 2 co-producers.

 

[dascoyne]

to answer that, there are often more than one or two executive producers. Just for fun, I pulled up the credit list for the latest DUNE movie as that was the first film to pop in my mind. That film has 10 executive producers. 5 producers. 1 line producer. 1 associate producer. And 2 co-producers.

Wow. That is a lot.

Does it mean anything that El Dorado Pictures belongs to Baldwin? Of all the folks potentially responsible, it is looking the least favorable for Mr. Baldwin.

 

[Riceball]

The thing about the culpability of Baldwin as a producer, I look at it this way. Sure, he's just one of several producers, but he's the one that's on the set and he's also the lead actor, so that means he bears at least some of the responsibility for the lapses in safety protocols from a producer's standpoint alone.

 

[gregory]

I will say it again: How do you follow normal gun safety rules when filming a movie like 'The Deer Hunter'?

Don't pretend this isn't relevant. It is. You keep repeating "AB didn't follow normal gun safety rules!" I'm pointing out that Hollywood sets cannot use normal gun safety rules. They have their own different policies.

View attachment 1506202


Do you think AB should have been checking the load of any gun before using it? Fine. I agree about that.

But it doesn't mean the whole incident can be dismissed as "AB didn't take a gun class." It wasn't that simple. There were multiple other people EMPLOYED to check the gun BEFORE he even got it.


Who is employed to check the load of your personal firearms before you shoot them? What are their names? How much do they make before taxes?

In normal life your own gun mistakes are 100% your fault, because the job of handling your guns is 100% yours. The same is not true on a movie set. The job of gun safety is spread out through multiple people. Those weren't AB's guns, they belonged to the whole production.


The point is not to "Let AB off the hook." The point is that AB was the last link in a whole chain of failures. Piling all the blame onto him and neglecting the rest is not the responsible way to handle this.

I will say it again: How do you follow normal gun safety rules when filming a movie like 'The Deer Hunter'?

Don't pretend this isn't relevant. It is. You keep repeating "AB didn't follow normal gun safety rules!" I'm pointing out that Hollywood sets cannot use normal gun safety rules. They have their own different policies.

View attachment 1506202


Do you think AB should have been checking the load of any gun before using it? Fine. I agree about that.

But it doesn't mean the whole incident can be dismissed as "AB didn't take a gun class." It wasn't that simple. There were multiple other people EMPLOYED to check the gun BEFORE he even got it.


Who is employed to check the load of your personal firearms before you shoot them? What are their names? How much do they make before taxes?

In normal life your own gun mistakes are 100% your fault, because the job of handling your guns is 100% yours. The same is not true on a movie set. The job of gun safety is spread out through multiple people. Those weren't AB's guns, they belonged to the whole production.


The point is not to "Let AB off the hook." The point is that AB was the last link in a whole chain of failures. Piling all the blame onto him and neglecting the rest is not the responsible way to handle this.

I would argue that all the adult members of the crew responsible for safe handling of firearms (including the actor) on the set were each 100 percent responsible for this accident. Each one of those people failed the victims of this tragedy and endangered the lives of everyone on that set.

In a Deer Hunter Russian Roulette scenario there should be no extra precautions taken.
That is to say, every scene that involves the handling of a firearm should take every necessary step to ensure the safety of all involved.

The rounds inserted into the revolver in the D.H. could be lathe turned like a snap cap. If I were the armorer, I might bring in a press and make a the dummy rounds in front of the actors to put everyone at ease.

I would still dry fire in a safe direction (to ward off gun gremlins) before putting the firearm directly into the hand of the actor.
I’d keep my eye on the revolver (as if I had inscribed my atm pin in the grip) until it came back into my possession.

 

[AJTaliesen]

I wasn't familiar with the Deer Hunter reference so I just watched it.

I think we're running into an issue that I run into sometimes talking about scenes with my wife: a lot people never learned that films aren't shot in real time. When there's a camera cut, what you see before the cut and what you see after the cut might not even be on the same day. The gun he's holding to his head might not even be a real gun. No need for it to be. It's not in the same shot as the gun that's opened, or the gun that's fired. They are in the same SCENE, but not the same shot.

As for the shooting, no one gets shot at in that scene that I could see. Some people shoot in the direction of the camera, then there's a quick cut to someone getting shot...two things almost certainly filmed separately. I only caught once where a shot was fired and the target was in the same shot and the gun was definitely not aimed directly at them, look closely.

edit:
To put it another way: what you see in the final version might be:

Close up good guy A -1
Close up bad guy A -1
Close up good guy B -1
Group shot -1
Bad guys in a row -1
Good guys in row -1
Good guy A -2
Bad guy A -2
Group shot -2
Good Guy B -2
Good Guy A -3
Bad Guy A -3
Group Shot -3
Good Guy B shoots -1
Bad Guy A gets shot -1
Good guys scramble, shooting -1
Bad guys scramble shooting -1
Good Guy A shooting -1
Bad Guys in row, getting shot -2
Group shot -4

But that's not how you would film it. Takes too long. too expensive, messy.

You might do:

Good guy A - 1, 2, 3, shooting
Good guy B -1,2 shooting
Good guy scramble
Good guy shooting

Group shot 1,2,3,4

(good guys leave set, they are expensive and no longer needed)

Bad guys shooting 1,2

Bad guy A -1,2, getting shot.

So even though it looks like good guy B just shot bad guy A, the fact is, good Guy B firing might not even be the same day as bad guy getting hit.

And when filming any shooting, the people being shot at aren't there, when filming people being shot, the people shooting aren't there (it's just squibs going off under their shirts, no one on set actually shooting).

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

One also can't forget probably the most famous example of this 'bad firearm protocols' that we've all seen countless times for almost 60 years...

I know there probably wasn't anyone behind the camera, or the guns weren't real, or they were 'cold', or any myriad of explainers, but my point is, this happens time & time again onscreen, & we never give it a second thought. After this, will it forever be an issue in our minds?