cboath
Master Member
Not to mention she was a part of the rebellion. Once Luke became a known quantity you'd think they'd mention to each of them that the other existed.
The Mandalorian (TV series)
- Thread starter smurf
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Not to mention she was a part of the rebellion. Once Luke became a known quantity you'd think they'd mention to each of them that the other existed.
cboath
Master Member
Shaak Ti never really did much of anything on screen - could be the large tails just weren't practical for all the action she had to do.
Riv
Well-Known Member
I have to imagine I'm not the only one on this line of thought, but I feel like there will never be a jedi who will take over stewardship of Grogu. So all the conjecture that Luke, Ezra, or Cal will be the jedi that will show up to whisk away the Child is just a red herring. I think this is just an excuse to keep moving the characters through the story. "The Mandalorian" is about the two of them together, not just "The Adventures of Din Djarin". Given what Ahsoka shared in this episode about letting the force fade within him, I'm even more confident that Grogu will eventually turn away from that path and make a choice to stay with Din and that Din will welcome that.
This notion that Grogu will be given a chance to call out in the force for a jedi to come to him I think will be that moment where he says "Nah, I'm good", and then something else will become the ultimate 'objective' for their journey.
I feel Din's ultimate character arc for this series ends up being related to two things : 1) recognizing that he doesn't have to be programmed the way he has been by the Watch and that he still can be a Mandalorian without following 'the Creed' of his cult (IG-11's change was one expression of how one can be something other than what they were 'programmed' to be; if he ultimately spends any time with her, Ahsoka would be another); 2) recognizing that being a father is something he didn't want or anticipate but becomes ultimately important to him.
This notion that Grogu will be given a chance to call out in the force for a jedi to come to him I think will be that moment where he says "Nah, I'm good", and then something else will become the ultimate 'objective' for their journey.
I feel Din's ultimate character arc for this series ends up being related to two things : 1) recognizing that he doesn't have to be programmed the way he has been by the Watch and that he still can be a Mandalorian without following 'the Creed' of his cult (IG-11's change was one expression of how one can be something other than what they were 'programmed' to be; if he ultimately spends any time with her, Ahsoka would be another); 2) recognizing that being a father is something he didn't want or anticipate but becomes ultimately important to him.
firesprite
Master Member
AnubisGuard
Master Member
I hope you're right, because that would be the correct character-diven decisions for these characters, but knowing that Feonli hasn't finished telling his story with Ahsoka, Ezra, and Thrawn, I'm worried he's going to hijack this series to get that done, like he (apparently, I never watched it but I've read about it) hijacked Rebels to continue Ahsoka's story. It's just too perfect an opening to bring Ezra back.
I've liked the past two episodes well enough, but this season it's felt a little bit like Mando is very passive and getting pushed around by his circumstances, rather than making any active decisions. Dragging in Clone Wars and Rebels characters is just heightening that sense. I'm starting to feel little like I imagine the Star Trek: Enterprise fans felt when they dragged Riker, Troi, and the holodeck into the series finale: like, I recognize that these characters are part of the same ongoing continuity, but it feels like a slap in the face to the investment I have in this show and the characters in it that they're suddenly sidelined for more adventures of these other guys from a different series. I don't like it.
Stop. There is no "EU" anymore. There's canon and there's legends. Thrawn is canon.
Loved the episode...but...
“Grogu”?
In a galaxy with such richly descriptive names as “Prune Face”, “Rancor Keeper”, “Death Star Droid”, “Walrus Man”, “Snaggletooth”, and “Hammerhead”...the best you can come up with is “Grogu” over “Baby Yoda”?
“Grogu” sounds like some sort of Klingon delicacy made up of a mix of maggots, hot dogs, vomit, cold squid, Andorian boogers, and Rice Crispies.
Oh well. He’ll always be “Baby Yoda” to me.
“Grogu”?
In a galaxy with such richly descriptive names as “Prune Face”, “Rancor Keeper”, “Death Star Droid”, “Walrus Man”, “Snaggletooth”, and “Hammerhead”...the best you can come up with is “Grogu” over “Baby Yoda”?
“Grogu” sounds like some sort of Klingon delicacy made up of a mix of maggots, hot dogs, vomit, cold squid, Andorian boogers, and Rice Crispies.
Oh well. He’ll always be “Baby Yoda” to me.
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Full disclosure: I haven't kept up with the show since midway last season as I just lost interest. Despite that, I find the machinations behind the show to be intriguing. If I'm off with any story details, my apologies...
The debate at this time last year was how much the show should stand on its own vs relying on bringing in well-known Star Wars faces to help it along. Looks as though that debate is still ongoing. Watching the show for the time that I did, it seemed inevitable that the latter was the direction they were going. Star Wars for better or worse has always used nostalgia...or perhaps "familiarity" is a better word, as a selling point. I felt like Mandalorian was basically doing the same. The title character himself is really a stand in for Boba Fett (albeit a noble version), the child being the same mysterious species as a beloved character, it’s set in the same time as the movies not to mention a good chunk of the EU. When Mando showed up on Tatooine, I was convinced that Boba Fett would be brought back. The original Mando squaring off against the new Mando. It’s just too good of an opportunity to pass up and...looks like he is indeed back.
Then you had the dark saber, Ahsoka, a mention of GAT. Clearly the show is willing to bring in well known elements of the Star Wars universe to build itself with. I don‘t want to debate the merits of that approach as I said I haven’t been watching and couldn’t give a well informed assessment. Again I’m more interested in the behind the scenes decisions.
All that being said and based on what they’ve done with the show so far, I'm willing to bet that we eventually see Mark Hamill reprise his role as Luke one last time in live action. There was once a time when I would've thought that impossible. But now? I could totally see it. Without rehashing the quality of Luke's character in TLJ, I'm sure even those who liked his portrayal would acknowledge most fans didn't respond well to it and neither did Mark Hamill himself. I could absolutely see him saying "Screw it. De-age me and let me give this another shot" and Disney/Lucasfilm agreeing to bring in the most popular character into its thus far most critically successful enterprise post Lucas. Is it the right direction narratively? Probably not but you can't deny the excitement it would generate. Imagine the buzz this show would garner if people heard Luke Skywalker was returning. Disney is nothing if not opportunistic.
Anyway that's my prediction.
Oh, and if the Jedi mentioned isn't Luke, it'll be Kyle Katarn
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So I'm typing this as I watch it and here are my initial thoughts and observations.
Alcoholism aged Michael Biehn severely. Some of his dialog is literally unintelligable. I rewound it several times and still don't know what he said in some parts.
Rosario Dawson matches what I've seen of Ashoka so I appreciate the visual continuity though her appearance wasn't anything significant to me personally because I haven't watched either of her shows. The Magistrate's dialog and delivery is atrocious. Flat, emotionless and trying way too hard to sound cool. Par for the course with what I've seen with clips from Rebels and Clone Wars.
WHY, WHY WHY is every pilot since TPM hellbent on landing a mile away from their destination? It was really noticeable and annoying in Rogue One, but this drives me absolutely bonkers. It's fast becoming a pet peeve of mine because of it's overuse. Basic logic would dictate you save a LOT of time having to schlep through the muck if you land right beside the gate of your city. If you're going to land that far away you better have a good story reason for it other than to show off your set designs.
Why is the landscaped razed by fire and what is the significance of that oasis in the middle of it? (Ok this is answered at least)
This is the danger of bringing in Ashoka and the Jedi into this. We're rehashing the whole idea of attachment, should (Anakin) I mean Grogu be trained, his fear being a factor. etc. Fear is a perfectly natural feeling that all sentient creatures have and one of the key factors to survival. This is familiar territory and frankly really tired at this point. I do like the fact that he has a reason to know how to do what he does with the Force. Is that picture of Grogu hiding behind the chair in ROTS fan made, or has he been digitally inserted into that movie now?
Plus if Ashoksa survived long enough to see the Rebellion through why was she not fighting alongside Luke, Han, Leia? Maybe that's answered in Rebels so that's not a critique so much as a genuine question.
Why does Mando want to take down the Magistrate? What's in it for him? A staff? If so it seems like the motivation of a video game character who just wants to upgrade his gear and this is a placeholder for actual character development. ie. Consummerism (tm): The Game! This is why I scoffed at the beskar lore in the first season because it was literally the kind of thing you see in a game where the player beats a level and then upgrades their skin (armor) for better stuff to propel the story along without any emotional stakes. I was able to overlook it before because the characters around him have been interesting enough that I didn't bother worrying too much about it, but it's starting to concern me now with the absence of Grief or Cara who I like far more than Din.
Am I watching Clone Wars or Rebels turned into live action now? This is why I've expressed concerns over known characters appearing in this show because Din is merely the vehicle to have an excuse for a cameo now and then. Should we just be honest and nickname this show The Gondolorian? Because he's a ferryman for all the other characters.
Oh there's another one of those cat creatures from Rebels. The Magistrate's facial expressions are making me laugh. It's cool that she's the god daughter of Bruce Lee and the daughter of Don Inosanto but man she's really overselling it.
Why doesn't Mando bring his rifle with him more often? He can literally disintegrate people with it. Seems like it would be really handy.
I'm surprised Mando got Grogu to stay on the ship. The little guy is always intent on following him. Speaking of which, why do they having him purring like a cat throughout this episode? The last one they used a lot of human baby sounds which I think was a smart move on selling him as a sentient character. The cat purring sounds out of place to me because they strike me as a sound they should use for a non sentient being. Just a thought.
Overall:
I was pretty disappointed in this latest episode and with the hints of Thrawn showing up as well as them delving into Jedi lore with Grogu choosing his path, I fear we are treading into all too familiar territory. I'm really not interested in this turning into a live action version of Clone Wars or Rebels.
And the music swells...... and I don't care. Like at all. Overall I've enjoyed the show but there is a real danger that they're going to keep shoving the member berries into a dish best served without them. I've said since before it even premiered that it's strength will be letting it branch out and be it's own thing. While there will be trappings that we know to remind us which universe this takes place in, I worry that it will limit the story potential if they get lost in those things. If that ends up being the case I'll check out and move on.
Alcoholism aged Michael Biehn severely. Some of his dialog is literally unintelligable. I rewound it several times and still don't know what he said in some parts.
Rosario Dawson matches what I've seen of Ashoka so I appreciate the visual continuity though her appearance wasn't anything significant to me personally because I haven't watched either of her shows. The Magistrate's dialog and delivery is atrocious. Flat, emotionless and trying way too hard to sound cool. Par for the course with what I've seen with clips from Rebels and Clone Wars.
WHY, WHY WHY is every pilot since TPM hellbent on landing a mile away from their destination? It was really noticeable and annoying in Rogue One, but this drives me absolutely bonkers. It's fast becoming a pet peeve of mine because of it's overuse. Basic logic would dictate you save a LOT of time having to schlep through the muck if you land right beside the gate of your city. If you're going to land that far away you better have a good story reason for it other than to show off your set designs.
Why is the landscaped razed by fire and what is the significance of that oasis in the middle of it? (Ok this is answered at least)
This is the danger of bringing in Ashoka and the Jedi into this. We're rehashing the whole idea of attachment, should (Anakin) I mean Grogu be trained, his fear being a factor. etc. Fear is a perfectly natural feeling that all sentient creatures have and one of the key factors to survival. This is familiar territory and frankly really tired at this point. I do like the fact that he has a reason to know how to do what he does with the Force. Is that picture of Grogu hiding behind the chair in ROTS fan made, or has he been digitally inserted into that movie now?
Plus if Ashoksa survived long enough to see the Rebellion through why was she not fighting alongside Luke, Han, Leia? Maybe that's answered in Rebels so that's not a critique so much as a genuine question.
Why does Mando want to take down the Magistrate? What's in it for him? A staff? If so it seems like the motivation of a video game character who just wants to upgrade his gear and this is a placeholder for actual character development. ie. Consummerism (tm): The Game! This is why I scoffed at the beskar lore in the first season because it was literally the kind of thing you see in a game where the player beats a level and then upgrades their skin (armor) for better stuff to propel the story along without any emotional stakes. I was able to overlook it before because the characters around him have been interesting enough that I didn't bother worrying too much about it, but it's starting to concern me now with the absence of Grief or Cara who I like far more than Din.
Am I watching Clone Wars or Rebels turned into live action now? This is why I've expressed concerns over known characters appearing in this show because Din is merely the vehicle to have an excuse for a cameo now and then. Should we just be honest and nickname this show The Gondolorian? Because he's a ferryman for all the other characters.
Oh there's another one of those cat creatures from Rebels. The Magistrate's facial expressions are making me laugh. It's cool that she's the god daughter of Bruce Lee and the daughter of Don Inosanto but man she's really overselling it.
Why doesn't Mando bring his rifle with him more often? He can literally disintegrate people with it. Seems like it would be really handy.
I'm surprised Mando got Grogu to stay on the ship. The little guy is always intent on following him. Speaking of which, why do they having him purring like a cat throughout this episode? The last one they used a lot of human baby sounds which I think was a smart move on selling him as a sentient character. The cat purring sounds out of place to me because they strike me as a sound they should use for a non sentient being. Just a thought.
Overall:
I was pretty disappointed in this latest episode and with the hints of Thrawn showing up as well as them delving into Jedi lore with Grogu choosing his path, I fear we are treading into all too familiar territory. I'm really not interested in this turning into a live action version of Clone Wars or Rebels.
And the music swells...... and I don't care. Like at all. Overall I've enjoyed the show but there is a real danger that they're going to keep shoving the member berries into a dish best served without them. I've said since before it even premiered that it's strength will be letting it branch out and be it's own thing. While there will be trappings that we know to remind us which universe this takes place in, I worry that it will limit the story potential if they get lost in those things. If that ends up being the case I'll check out and move on.
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sztriki
Sr Member
[/QUOTE]
I had no problem understanding him, but he does look rough. But I like him so much I was just happy to see him around.
Honestly I thought this was the only instance where it kinda made sense as he didn't necessarily want to go in all wham bam and seemed to be trying to stay low-key. The ramp not closing however irked me as well...
I kind of agree with this, the whole training thing should be about controlling your fear and anger as Vader said in ESB. I don't mind it so far because it was a reason/excuse to part ways with Ahsoka, so hopefully this can carry on on its own. That would kind of turn this episode into a fanboi pleaser episode that led to not a lot but as long as it carries on being the Mandalorian instead of LET'S CRAM ALL THESE GUYS IN AND SEE WHERE THEY WENT AFTER THE ANIMATED SERIES ENDED I'm okay...
I hear ya, but I was expecting to check out last night and I quite liked this episode. If they stay like this, that is. Restraint kind of saved this episode for me big time but if this is the main direction then I'll be on me merry way too. But so far they haven't blundered and there were plenty of bits where they could have so I'm cautiously optimistic.
CelticRuins
Sr Member
So the concept artist Brain Matyas has commented on her shortened montrals/lekku:
So there ya go. The more I watch Rosario as older Ahsoka, the less I seem to care...she looks so damn cool!
So there ya go. The more I watch Rosario as older Ahsoka, the less I seem to care...she looks so damn cool!
Potroclo
Well-Known Member
If I got it right, Mando helped Ashoka take down the magistrate in exchange for her training Grogu, that's what was in it for him. Not that Ashoka explicitly agrees to the favor exchange though. I guess seeing how the magistrate treated her own people also helped Mando make the decision (but that's just speculation).
About the landing, I've played enough SW pen and paper RPG to know if any settlement doesn't have dedicated spaceports, they'll not want a landing area right besides its gates, especially in the Outer Rim with non-accountable, armed spaceships. Nor would you want to land so close to a bunch of people whose intentions and skills you don't know... Besides, airports IRL aren't right into cities, right? I don't know, to me it's kind of natural, and he didn't seem to have landed all that far, just a 15 minute walk...
I agree about Inosanto, but at this point I'm not so sure it's the actors or the directors telling them to act more cartoonish, like somebody said, to appeal to a larger demographic or whatever. Especially with Filoni as a director, I think he just indulged a bit in his own fun with this episode, but we should wait at least a couple episodes to protest about this shown turning into TCW. Not that I mind about the cartoonish tone, mind you, I'd take it over some of the ST over-complicated pretentions that didn't work in the end, any day.
btw, nice to see you're invested in SW, again
Toadmeister
Sr Member
Some thoughtful critique here, which I actually appreciate. Would love to discuss over beers.
Going to address 2 items you brought up:
Landing outside city also serves to allow storytelling and exposition of the setting without useless dialogue. Sets up some beautiful shots outside the city walls that harken back to homage to other films as well. Note the standoff outside the city gates. Trees, dinosaurs, ravaged landscape from industrialization all tell a story.
From a practical standpoint (someone else mentioned) no spaceports within City. Like many cities we have that were build prior to air travel and urban sprawl.
RedheadKevin
Well-Known Member
Nobody seems to have mentioned how visually beautiful this episode was. You can pause it at nearly any point and BAM, you've got a new computer wallpaper. And there were SO MANY Ahsoka pose-down shots. It was gorgeous. A tad gratuitous, at times, but let Filoni play with his toys for an episode.
Some random thoughts I had:
- The antagonists were boring as hell. We know Ahsoka could take the Magistrate. From a distance. They wasted Michael Biehn. Did his character even get a name? Did anyone recognize his armor? It seemed too specifically designed to not be a reference to something.
- Who saved Grogu? I'm guessing it was Anakin. Even during Order 66, and killing some Younglings, I could see Anakin not being able to wipe out all the little children and telling some to get out. Another likely possibility is Jocasta Nu. An UNlikely candidate, but a possibly interesting one, would be that the Grand Inquisitor helped some younglings escape. He started off as a Jedi Temple Guard after all. OR, it'll be some other random Jedi.
- People ask why Ahsoka wouldn't know Luke, but I think it's a lot more likely she knew Leia. Ahsoka was connected to the Rebellion long before Luke was, and she knew Bail personally. I can imagine she'd have met Leia.
- I was expecting them to play coy with Ahsoka, hold off on showing her, maybe she shows up in the last few minutes, but WOW... White lightsabers fighting and full face shots, 35 seconds into the episode (after the recap and logos.)
- Good to see the Harkonnen soldiers getting work after they lost Arrakis.
-A tiny nitpick, but there were two Yodas at the Jedi Temple: Yoda and Yaddle. Ahsoka would have known about her, too.
Some random thoughts I had:
- The antagonists were boring as hell. We know Ahsoka could take the Magistrate. From a distance. They wasted Michael Biehn. Did his character even get a name? Did anyone recognize his armor? It seemed too specifically designed to not be a reference to something.
- Who saved Grogu? I'm guessing it was Anakin. Even during Order 66, and killing some Younglings, I could see Anakin not being able to wipe out all the little children and telling some to get out. Another likely possibility is Jocasta Nu. An UNlikely candidate, but a possibly interesting one, would be that the Grand Inquisitor helped some younglings escape. He started off as a Jedi Temple Guard after all. OR, it'll be some other random Jedi.
- People ask why Ahsoka wouldn't know Luke, but I think it's a lot more likely she knew Leia. Ahsoka was connected to the Rebellion long before Luke was, and she knew Bail personally. I can imagine she'd have met Leia.
- I was expecting them to play coy with Ahsoka, hold off on showing her, maybe she shows up in the last few minutes, but WOW... White lightsabers fighting and full face shots, 35 seconds into the episode (after the recap and logos.)
- Good to see the Harkonnen soldiers getting work after they lost Arrakis.
-A tiny nitpick, but there were two Yodas at the Jedi Temple: Yoda and Yaddle. Ahsoka would have known about her, too.
davewhite152
New Member
I thought the only appearance of Yaddle was as a hologram so they never were actually at the temple
davewhite152
New Member
But names like walrus man were nicknames. He was actually Pondu Baba. Snaggletooth was Snivvian or Zutton
Hammerhead was Momaw Nadon and Death Star droid was the RA-7.
Yes it would appear that I'm that nerdy. I personally like the name The Child and not baby yoda as, well he wasn't
el toro
Sr Member
Other than Luke and Ashoka, there is another “Jedi” during that time. We just aren’t privy to where he is.
Also choosing between the force or not reminds me of this scene from the Japanese samurai film, Shogun Assassin (aka Baby Cart), which the Mandalorian seems to be loosely inspired by.
Also choosing between the force or not reminds me of this scene from the Japanese samurai film, Shogun Assassin (aka Baby Cart), which the Mandalorian seems to be loosely inspired by.
el toro
Sr Member
I totally agree Michael Biehn was underused and Mando leaving without his jet pack was weird.
As for Mando, is the rule that he can never take off his helmet, or he just can’t remove it in front of other people? If the latter, then we can assume that he removes it to shower and sleep (and eat hard foods?).
Maybe The Watch made up the helmet rule just for Din djarin, b/c their initial reaction to his face was this:
As for Mando, is the rule that he can never take off his helmet, or he just can’t remove it in front of other people? If the latter, then we can assume that he removes it to shower and sleep (and eat hard foods?).
Maybe The Watch made up the helmet rule just for Din djarin, b/c their initial reaction to his face was this:
WTF?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Best and worst episode ever.
Ahsoka-Awesome. Don't know why the voice actress could not play her but I like Rosario Dawson so cool. Amazing and I have not watched much of the cartoons. Finally a Jedi being a kick ass Jedi. Not against stupid battle droids. Just bad guys.
Awesome fight with the ladies. I agree with the belief she was being careful not to kill her otherwise no match for Ahsoka.
Fight between Ahsoka and Mando awesome but she may want to make sure someone is her enemy before trying to kill them.
We actually learned something finally about this shows characters.
BTW ditch the stupid no take off helmet thing so we see Pedro, he can sleep comfortably, etc. This part is just stupid. The guy needs to shower, sleep comfortably, and it will be real hard really caring about and getting into this character like it is now. And yes I think Dredd never taking his helmet off is stupid,...........................................same to you.
BUT!!!!!!!!!!! we actually learn stuff about the child. Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And now the crap. Really don't see how creators with this talent do such stupid things.
Putting aside the Razor Crest getting totally fixed in one day in the last episode he appears to leave it unsecured again. Okay maybe locked it off screen.
Too stupid to live decisions:
Wasting the great Michael Biehn is unforgivable.
Going into any questionable situation without his jet pack is just stupid.
Anyone here ever gonna go into a situation you know may be very dangerous without one of your three top weapons? If you raised your hand you will die.
I love this show and that was an awesome ep but these stupid decisions of creators and characters need to stop.
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