New Elstree Studio documentary with discarded Graflex.

[Halliwax]

I AM SHOOK


... and yes, any movie production will have multiple hero props. Given the changes in the lever and clamp position changing it is certainly possible there was more than one.

But this sure looks like the toe pic saber... that dude is sitting on gold...

I'll wait for scottjua to weigh in...

I feel like a mother who’s kid didn’t come home at curfew... pacing around, looking out the window.. and when you show up yelling

“Where have you been!!!???”

 

[Halliwax]

I kind of wonder what the condition was when he got it. I mean he was a child at the time and children are not always the most gentle with things. There could have been the bunny ears still attached and T-tracks, but they came off over time with rough play.

Could you imagine if it had the track?!

 

[SethS]

Except that the toe pic saber has a full-knurl button, and (appears to have) a centered d-ring. I don’t really see a scenario where the full-knurl button would need to be replaced, or was somehow lost, especially with the beer tab keeping it attached to the upper half.

We've seen parts get moved between pRoduction sabers before, especially in ESB. Just saying it's possible.

 

[Gregatron]

...can anyone tell if that’s a Folmer or Graflex Inc. endcap stamp?

 

[SethS]

I feel like a mother who’s kid didn’t come home at curfew... pacing around, looking out the window.. and when you show up yelling

“Where have you been!!!???”

This guy better sleep with one eye open... Brandon Alinger might be coming in his window tonight...

 

[thd9791]

I'm very bad with illustrator. the red lines are the glue residue. the blue boxes are estimated T track footprints. Is this too far apart for 7 grips?

 

[Halliwax]

This guy better sleep with one eye open... Brandon Alinger might be coming in his window tonight...

I don’t care what price I was offered.. if that was mine, the history NOT of it being connected to Star Wars.. but his connection with it to his dad..

That’s what makes it priceless to me

 

[Halliwax]

I'm very bad with illustrator. the red lines are the glue residue. the blue boxes are estimated T track footprints. Is this too far apart for 7 grips?

View attachment 993237

Real interesting Tom!!

 

[Gregatron]

We've seen parts get moved between pRoduction sabers before, especially in ESB. Just saying it's possible.

True. Not trying to be a negative Nelly, here, but there’s a burden of proof which needs to be met.

The scenario which seems most likely to me is that the buttons and whatnot were swapped around so as to make the hero props match each other as closely as possible. Then, the FX stunt got saddled with a non-matching, thin-knurl, Folmer button from the box of leftover parts.

Makes no sense to me that a hero prop seen both onscreen and in post-production publicity photos would suddenly have its button switched out. If anything, those post-production photos (with full-knurl button) would have come right before the prop was ostensibly tossed in the trash pile.

 

[Halliwax]

Oh man I’m gonna have a hard time sleeping tonight... have I mentioned I live for this stuff

 

[thd9791]

My guess was about the same, that this one kept it's button, not matching the other Hero's technically

 

[BlandoCalrssian]

I'm very bad with illustrator. the red lines are the glue residue. the blue boxes are estimated T track footprints. Is this too far apart for 7 grips?

View attachment 993237

Looks about right to me

 

[Gregatron]

My guess was about the same, that this one kept it's button, not matching the other Hero's technically

At the very least, the Folmer button and the clamp orientation (which matches the post-production photos, but not the screenused props) indicates that this—if authentic—was either a prototype or a backup/second-tier hero. The clamp orientation matches the post-production toe pic prop, but the half-knurl button and (possibly) the d-ring mount don’t. The screenused props feature the “proper” clamp orientation that the flashes had when they were used AS flashes. The toe pic/ESB/Elstree orientation does not.

 

[Gregatron]

I'm very bad with illustrator. the red lines are the glue residue. the blue boxes are estimated T track footprints. Is this too far apart for 7 grips?

View attachment 993237

That actually seems to match the placement of the toe pic grips quite well, with the edge of one grip in line with the edges of the rectangular holes on the clamp band.

 

[SethS]

At the very least, the Folmer button and the clamp orientation (which matches the post-production photos, but not the screenused props) indicates that this—if authentic—was either a prototype or a backup/second-tier hero. The clamp orientation matches the post-production toe pic prop, but the half-knurl button and (possibly) the d-ring mount don’t. The screenused props feature the “proper” clamp orientation that the flashes had when they were used AS flashes. The toe pic/ESB/Elstree orientation does not.

We've seen alt props (like say the DL44 in ANH, or the various Luke sabers in ROTJ) that are a result or prep and production on two different continents. The old rumor about the ANH clamp box changing was that there was a different hero used back in Cali for the promo work.

A lot of the hero props seem to be singular in ANH, but any time you have specialized props there's generally more than one. Christian (who is hard to trust these days) said there was more than one hero made. One in Europe, one sent to the states, and others cannibalized for parts.

Hopefully higher res images come about so we can find finer details to match up to something.

 

[Dalziel44]

I feel like a mother who’s kid didn’t come home at curfew... pacing around, looking out the window.. and when you show up yelling

“Where have you been!!!???”

“You will learn patience.”

 

[Somerset]

He says that he gave it away to a friend as an 18th birthday present (so I guess some time in the 1980s), which would mean that he's probably just borrowing it off said friend to film in the documentary (still friends all these years later, so that's good going!). Therefore, as some of you have mentioned, it means he really does have no vested interest in the prop itself which you could say gives his story more weight.

I'd be interested if the current owner ever realises how valuable this thing could be.

 

[indignate]

Hello guys.

I am Ruben Jimenez Brinquis. I did that documentary and I found Andrew Mitchell and the lightsaber. I Will try to answer all your questions about it, and I Will provide you more detailed photos of it.

Let me explain how this was found.

I am a movie collector and I try to find crew members from my most beloved movies. I had Heard of the manager of elstree studios from other top crew member, how important he was in star wars history, , and I found his son (Andy) in Facebook.

When Andy told me he found a lightsaber in the backlot of the studios when he was a child I was shocked. But soon after sadly he told me he gave it away in the 80´s to a childhood friend. At least he still remembered his name, so he helped me finding that guy, with poor expectations that he still had the saber after all these years.

For my joy, he still had it.

This Andy´s friend sent me these photos I attach. In this photos you Will find the saber as it was exactly found in elstree in 1976 by Andy. Both Andy and his friend confirmed me that the saber came with no grips, that they did not tried to open it, and that they never played with it. So all the damage inflicted to it came from elstree not from them. The saber has been in a glass cabinet for the last 30 years.

You Will notice the clamp and the lever its on a different position in the video. I have an explanation for that later. But this means the clamp was in "filming position" not postproduction.

I showed these photos to Brandon Alinger and Stephen Lane to ask for their opinión, it looked right to them at first sight, but they needed to see it in hand.

We instantly noticed the thin-strip knurled button, that could discard it from being the hero prop in hand of mark hamill int the two key scenes where the saber can be seen close to camera, and the postproduction bapty photo, or toe pic. But still could be production made because of the use of the particular thin strip button in the stunt saber, or being a rehersal one, or used in background scenes. Or just used my the special effects team while trying to make the stunt saber with the motor and rotating rod.

I got the saber early last year and run to meet Stephen lane in his propstore office to examine it closely. THIS WAS THE DAY BEFORE FILMING ANDREW MITCHEL INTERVIEW.

Stephen took with him his screenused Darth vader saber (from ESB and maybe ANH as well) and we put it along side this one, to check it they look the same age. And it looked the same age. Also to check the size and color of the bubbles. And were identical.

We decided to open it, to look for any machinery inside, any remanents of posible wires or someting indicating its use as a prototype of the stunt saber. It was empty. But Stephen noticed the lack of some tiny screws inside it, and the glass eye and some components looks like loose, looked like it had been deconstructed and rebuilt again.

Then we noticed that the head had major alterations. All the bunny ears had gone, and there was an strange metal plate welded inside, that we still are not sure what is it doing there.

The saber has damage of the welding in the head, and a lot of scratches in the bottom. Like being hit many times there, maybe of just falling to ground, maybe damage done in the elstree backlot, we dont know.

When he tried to put the clamp again into its original position after opening it, we couldnt put the lever down. We had to do a lot of pressure and we were afraid to break it. So we left it in that different position with the lever up. So when I filmed ANdrew Mitchel handling it in his interview, the day after, it has that different position than the day I found it.
Months later, with the use of some tools I put the clamp and lever in the same spot and position as it was found.

Knowing the saber would had a lot scrutiny, because its the easiest prop ever to replicate, because of the Kurtz/joiner attemps, I realized that I would need to prove strongly its provenance, and that just a letter from Andy wouldnt be enough. So I asked him for an interview. So anyone could see and meet the guy.

I took permission from elstree studios to film the interview there. It was the first time Andy was seeing the saber after gifting it to his friend 30 years ago.

I thought that Andy would just talk for ten minutes, but instead he talked for around two hours about the work of his father in the studios and their final destiny. I found all very interesting and I decided to make the documentary with that material.

You Will see that ANdy is not a star wars fan, not a collector, and he gives no importance to props. Its exactly what made me thought at fisrt sight it was not a replica. He was not trying to sell it, he even didnt had it in his possesion. I also thought if this would be a 30 years old replica, how could be that accurate without DVD, and books, and all the information we all now have. How could someone know in the early 80´s that these were made with a graflex handle, and used bubbles from a Texas INstruments calculator? Its imposible.

I have a theory about how this saber was used in produciton. Its just a theory. but first I want to listen to your impressions.

 

[indignate]

And these are photos took in Propstore offices, more resolution.. Please notice the clamp is not in his original position. All explained before.

 

[Somerset]

Fascinating and thank you for the pictures - it's a Folmer with patent number it seems. Does the plug in the emitter indicate that it was rigged for a blade somehow but just a static version since you say there didn't look like any internal modifications to accommodate a motor?