New Elstree Studio documentary with discarded Graflex.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by Skelatorious, Feb 24, 2019.

  1. Skelatorious

    Skelatorious New Member

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    A great documentary of the studios as a whole. Of course Star Wars gets a decent amount of discussion. The son of a previous studio manager during its hey-day (Andrew Mitchell) found a discarded prop when Star Wars was wrapping.

    This is discusssd just after the 26min mark.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  2. joberg

    joberg Master Member

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    Great vid for sure; TFS with us Skelatorious(y)
     
  3. Serenity

    Serenity Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    1.png 2.png 3.png 4.png 5.png 6.png 7.png 8.png 9.png

    Grip residue?:
    10.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  4. JoeG

    JoeG Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Is this Andrew guy the same person who tried to pass of a fake Luke ROTJ reveal saber as production made? If so I'd take any claim he makes with a giant grain of salt.
     
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  5. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    *, that top has been demolished!

    I will say the bubble strip thats too wide for the clamp to close is neat, but I can't figure out whats happening with that D ring.
     
  6. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    more details

    2 rivets on a D ring clip
    Screen Shot 2019-02-24 at 6.03.57 PM.png
    Leftover superglue from T tracks
    Screen Shot 2019-02-24 at 6.04.38 PM.png
     
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  7. Ridire Firean

    Ridire Firean Sr Member

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    Hmmm, looks like an Early Folmer Glass Eye and Red-Button.
     
  8. Ridire Firean

    Ridire Firean Sr Member

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    Well, he got two movie names wrong in the 6 minutes of the video that I watched, so, I'd say definitely add salt! ;)

    That X-wing though!!! I thought my appliance box X-wing was neat, how cool would a real one have been to play in!!!
     
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  9. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Haven’t watched the video but nearly had a heart attack when I saw the d ring!!

    Then saw the posts about this guys past history... not cool
     
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  10. JoeG

    JoeG Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  11. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Idk... watching this. The guy has pictures of himself playing on all the props..

    I also see crap on the lower tube.. I have a gut feeling this is real...

    Maybe I WANT it to be real....
     
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  12. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  13. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Also looks like something under the bubble strip..
     
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  14. BlandoCalrssian

    BlandoCalrssian Member

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    Really hoping its not real, thats a lot of Graflex bottoms that cant be undrilled
     
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  15. teecrooz

    teecrooz Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Well, it pretty much lines up with the Empire of Dreams blurry footage I posted a while ago. Off-center clip, which is why I always told people it was a mistake to drill their flash until better reference was available.

    I’m not saying this is correct, just gives me further pause to not drill my vintage flashes until better reference is available.

    2DEF0311-986A-4B47-9831-E9819917F8EA.jpeg
     
  16. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Dang.. that’s a tough blur lol
     
  17. teecrooz

    teecrooz Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Lol, maybe someone can embed the video from the Facebook Graflex Addicts Group. The video in motion and there is an attempt at a sharpening that both still makes me to believe it was off center.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
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  18. BlandoCalrssian

    BlandoCalrssian Member

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    Anyone else now see two rivets/screws on the toe pic saber?
    IMG_1466.JPG
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
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  19. THX1138

    THX1138 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I have a feeling that is a real prop that he found in the mud on the lot. Notice how the lever isn't closed much at all and the 7 bubble LED is quite yellowed. In many photo's, Luke's Graflex has a lever that is barely closed! I wonder if there's 7 strips of glue residue on it???
     
  20. THX1138

    THX1138 Well-Known Member

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  21. THX1138

    THX1138 Well-Known Member

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    Above is a full scan of my original copy of the "Toe Pic" picture.

    Thought I'd post it in this thread for those that may not have a copy of it.

    Notice the lever!

    - Jim
     
  22. THX1138

    THX1138 Well-Known Member

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    Notice the lever in this photo, as well.... Jul19_01.JPG
     
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  23. THX1138

    THX1138 Well-Known Member

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    Another "lever" photo... homestead.jpg
     
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  24. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thank you jim, I for one didn’t have a copy of it that big! Thank you very much!
     
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  25. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    When Luke is with obi wan at the jaws BBQ you can see the lever isn’t closed, and even 1 grip missing
     
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  26. steven giunta

    steven giunta Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    When I first saw the Kurtz sabers and recently the roger Christian saber I was immediately sceptical. They just didn’t look right,but when I saw this one the hairs on the back of my neck stood up.i think this is tge real deal,everything about it looks right. Tge bubble strip looks like it’s been in there for 40 years,if this was is a fake this guy did a better job then roger Christian.
    Also does anybody know if the folmer with patent ever had that style of red button?i have a New York folmer with that style button but my folmer with patent came with the regular red button.
     
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  27. newmagrathea

    newmagrathea Sr Member

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    Holy crap. I've got a feeling about this one. That D-ring is quite different than anything I've seen before, two rivets is what I see. He doesn't trigger the BS alarms, probably because he's not trying to sell it, he's just telling a story.
     
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  28. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Exactly! His photos on him all over the props, his dads huge connection... friendship with Harrison ford.. I’m a believer...
     
  29. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Eerrrrr a little clearer photos!! Man!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  30. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I want to know what happened to crush the top of the graflex on both corners

    Even if they did rivet the ANH saber twice, I get the feeling they built a few heros possibly with different hardware or something. That wasn't the part that had to be the same on them all, who'd pay attention to the D ring? cough cough
     
  31. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Look for any remnants of the serial number of the Bapty photo!!!
     
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  32. s2jesse

    s2jesse Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    here is a collage of enhanced d rings
    drings.jpg drings.jpg
     
  33. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That’s what I’m saying... if we could get more photos maybe we can start connecting the dots

    Can you imagine.. this is probably the only remaining graflex from ANH in existence!!
     
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  34. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  35. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Very tall D ring!!
     
  36. Drew Baker

    Drew Baker Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thanks, Jim! I appreciate you sharing it with us.

    With that scan it's easy to tell myself I see highlights where a pair of rivets would be.

     

    Attached Files:

  37. Doaln

    Doaln New Member

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    I'm looking forward to more experts weighing in and someone actually examining this in person. It would be a remarkable find after all this time!
     
  38. AnubisGuard

    AnubisGuard Sr Member

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    I agree. Something about it feels real, in a way that the Christian and Kurtz sabers never did.

    Hard to say why. Maybe because it's in such terrible condition and there's details like the double rivets that are so far off of "known" "truth" about the prop that it's hard to imagine somebody faking it. Like, if it were inauthentic you'd expect the forger to put more care into matching the details we expect.

    Exciting times here.
     
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  39. AnubisGuard

    AnubisGuard Sr Member

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    I thought so too at first, but I think it's rust. Look at the end-on view: there's not enough thickness under the plastic bubble strip for there to be a card or anything else.
     
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  40. Gregatron

    Gregatron Sr Member

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    That second highlight looks more to me like an optical illusion created by the both the d-ring and the edge of the bottom tube reflecting light, with empty space in-between them.

    And I was under the impression that Roy’s CAD perspective matching pretty definitively confirmed the centered d-ring. There’s also the leading theory of the Graflex case (or similar) d-ring bracket, which would have had a single, central rivet hole, rather than two.

    Not to say that this isn’t a production-made piece, but we shouldn’t immediately start scrapping our bottom halves and trying to replicate this new variant. It may well just be that—a variant. There’s some indication that a few heroes were made and used for the production. Maybe the one seen in the publicity photos (and some scenes) used a Graflex case’s d-ring/bracket, and this other variant used a quick-and-dirty handmade bracket with two rivets.

    The early Folmer-style button also raises questions. As does the fact that this was simply tossed away as trash, rather than being taken home by a member of the production or returned to Bapty’s. Perhaps this was one of the several Graflexes which Christian found, but served as a prototype, which was then discarded after the actual hero prop(s) was constructed. The toe pic saber has the full-knurled red button, and, based on Roy’s CAD work, a centered d-ring.

    Question is—does the onscreen “lever-out” prop have a thin-knurled button and an off-center d-ring? Because, at the very least, there seems to be both “lever-in” and “lever-out” versions of the prop seen onscreen. One prop tweaked between scenes, or two different heroes?
     
  41. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The pictures of him as little boy playing on all the broken and abandon props

    His dad being the manager.. him not trying to sell this lightsaber but just sharing this story of it..

    This is screaming real to me...

    Your absolutely right! Nothing under the strip

    Heck it could be 40 year old mud!

    IMG_8361.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  42. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    This is why I’m curious about the lower tube have glue residue on it.. did this thing once have grips on it

    It has a bubble strip, I wouldn’t put it past it being a completed flash.. has it seen screen time? Who knows, hopefully the new photos will shed some light

    We have heard by someone, I believe it was roger.. who said all the d rings randomly came out of the tool box of his friends shop he built the graflex in

    This thing still came out of the scrap pile with all the other pieces, this has more lineage to the film then what Kurtz or Christian has ever proven

    As for everyone in fear of the missing bunny ears and crunched S curve, who’s to say it didn’t get them damage in the junk pile it was thrown in

    I live a very small and quiet life... when stuff like this happens.. I won’t sleep at all tonight...
     
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  43. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I still think the lever can close more then what is seen in this photo.. looks like there’s enough room for it to close alittle more

    IMG_8362.jpg
     
  44. Gregatron

    Gregatron Sr Member

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    Question then is how trimmed the bubble strip is, since it obviously isn’t sliding out with the lever that far open. Maybe it was glued in?
     
  45. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Anything is possible, it’s so exciting! Where the hell is seth?!
     
  46. Gregatron

    Gregatron Sr Member

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    We should get Seth and Roy both in on this. Maybe Roy could do some CAD research using these new images and see how it lines up.

    That thin-strip knurled button really makes me doubt that this was a screenused piece, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t production made.

    And, not to cast accusations, but there’s still the possibility that it’s a fake. I mean, if Kurtz—THE PRODUCER OF THE MOVIE—could sell fakes (to say nothing of a Christian, who supposedly built the actual screenused props), then that means anyone able to do a little research could, too. Especially if you have a very believable story as to how it came into your possession. Just pull out some old photos, find a rusty Graflex, stick a bubble-strip in, attach a d-ring, and bingo. That doesn’t seem to be the case, here, but you never do know.
     
  47. AnubisGuard

    AnubisGuard Sr Member

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    I dunno! I texted him. No reply so far.
     
  48. Gregatron

    Gregatron Sr Member

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    Oh, and no hint of tape on that clamp!
     
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  49. Dalziel44

    Dalziel44 New Member

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    Just what I was thinking.
     
  50. AnubisGuard

    AnubisGuard Sr Member

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    We know they used the thin knurl on the stunt saber, though, so they definitely had some lying around, and for sure put one on screen – albeit not as part of the hero (that we know of). I'm not as doubtful.
     

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