Lost season 6 with spoilers beware

[cboath]

^^x2

There's stuff that is irrelevant. While it'd fun to know where and when all the egyptian stuff came from, we'll never know and it's not necessary. I mean, did you ever hear a character say 'Dude, what's with all the egyptian heiroglyphics? I thought we crashed in the south pacific?' We didn't. It's not important to the story. The upshot is the characters were placed in a world/whatever where the stuff existed and you go from there. It's like watching a show about the pilgrims landing on plymouth rock and then being cheesed at the producers and writers for not explaining how the indians got there, too.

Ben, Richard, and the other 'others' got off the island more often than not via the sub. In extreme cases they turned the wheel and got sent to Tunisia. As for jacob, well, he's got superpowers from being the islands protector. If he can grant immortality, i can buy he can just jump to mainland whenever he wants.

Walt was special, to an extent, because he had the ability to project himself. He appeared to shannon while a captive and to Locke when Walt was already in NY. I actually wonder if his character arc was meant for more, but they abandoned the plan (they revealed Ben was only supposed to be around 3 episodes and that changed to nearly 80 or so).

How did jack's dad appear off island? Well, there are only 4 possible answers.
1. It was the man in black projecting, but he wanted off the island to see what's out there. If he could project himself, the desire to leave would be much less you'd think.

2. It was jacob. We know he can pop off island, make rules you have to live with, and grant immortality. Taking Christians appearance wouldn't be a leap at all.

3. He was a literal ghost

4. It was in Jacks head.

More importantly though, it's not that big a deal.

If people wanna post up unanswered questions to discuss, i'm all for it....

 

[Larry Young]

Some of them are valid (like why was Walt special, how did C. Shepard appear off island)

I make a pretty good case with this one

http://www.spectacularry.com/?p=205

that the off-island Christian Shephard was Jacob. If Jacob has shape-changing powers as well, that explains Tall Walt telling gut-shot Locke that he still has work to do in the mass grave.

 

[Guri]

How did jack's dad appear off island?

There is nothing indicating that Jacob can take any other form except his younger self. To assume that is just guessing...

Here are a few more - how did any of the died on the island ghosts appear off the island to Hurley and how did Richard's ghost wife appear ON the island?

So far as we know, on the island, when someone who doesn't normally see/hear dead people sees an actually dead ghost, it's MIB.

Except MIB and Ben when they saw their dead mom's.

It would only work that MIB was appearing as Walt telling Locke he had things to do... if Walt was dead. But he wasn't.

So, is Walt like Jacob, able to project his living self on and off the island respectively?

The absurdity of this all makes me wonder if it's worth jumping through hoops to figure it out. If there are no obvious 'rules' that the writers went by then they just made it up for the purpose of moving the story along and all we're doing is trying to make ourselves feel better by finding a rhyme and reason.

I tell you what though, if there IS a LOST 'bible' that they went by, it'd sell. I just don't think so at this point.

The more I think on it all, the less I like the series. Emotionally it was great, intellectually... Like a big puzzle with so many missing pieces you can't make out the big picture. :thumbsdown

Maybe I'll change my mind tomorrow, but that's where I am today.

 

[Larry Young]

There is nothing indicating that Jacob can take any other form except his younger self.

Well, I'd say that's a pretty good indication that he can change his form.

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

...
The absurdity of this all makes me wonder if it's worth jumping through hoops to figure it out. If there are no obvious 'rules' that the writers went by then they just made it up for the purpose of moving the story along and all we're doing is trying to make ourselves feel better by finding a rhyme and reason.

I tell you what though, if there IS a LOST 'bible' that they went by, it'd sell. I just don't think so at this point.

The more I think on it all, the less I like the series. Emotionally it was great, intellectually... Like a big puzzle with so many missing pieces you can't make out the big picture. :thumbsdown Nothing worse than "Deus ex machina" solutions. I mean, this isn´t a Bond movie, where he can always get exactly those gadgets that will help save his life or finish the mission.

Maybe I'll change my mind tomorrow, but that's where I am today.

Well, great, thanks Guri. Just when I thought I got over the ending with Jack lying there and dying,accepting it and starting to re-like the series, I get sucker punched by this lol:lol But you are so right :/

Didn´t Hitchcock once say, "don´t try to fool the audience"? David Lynch did things in Twin Peaks that did not follow exact rules, but if "Lost" did this, then I´d be really disappointed.

I think it would be worth it to write a Lost-bible, and I am pretty sure that there´s already a handful of Losties out there that does that.

Regarding changes in character arcs or smaller story archs, they definitely did that. I was very disappointed when Mr.Eko left the show, and I read in an article that he was meant to be a more important character, but then was written out of the show by his own request because he did not like working on Hawaii
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Eko

Since Eko entered the hatch and met Locke, while Locke was solving a crossword puzzle with Gilgamesh and Enkidu, I had a hunch that Eko was important. But hey, the writers and the actor decided differently

And I am sure that this was not the only one besides Ben Linus.

 

[lonepigeon]

Well, I'd say that's a pretty good indication that he can change his form.

Except that it seems he appeared as his younger self because his ashes were taken. Once he got his ashes back and put them in the fire he was his complete older self again.

 

[Larry Young]

Except that it seems he appeared as his younger self because his ashes were taken. Once he got his ashes back and put them in the fire he was his complete older self again.

He appeared as his younger self to MiB first in "The Substitute," who had nothing to do with taking his ashes, so I don't think there's much cause-and-effect there. Of course, in that column I linked to a few messages back, I make a whole case about why what Christian wears is indicative of his appearance powers, so there's that.

One of the best things about this show, to me, is that we'll be able to discuss this show for thirty years and not get any closer to a consensus.

 

[Kevin/Collector]

Well, I'd say that's a pretty good indication that he can change his form.

But Jacob only demonstrated the ability to appear as his younger self after he was dead. And it was his own form, not that of another.

 

[Guri]

Well, great, thanks Guri. Just when I thought I got over the ending with Jack lying there and dying,accepting it and starting to re-like the series, I get sucker punched by this

Oops! *L* I want to love it too... I really do. After the finale, I even like Sawyer and Kate, two characters I couldnt' stand. I ADORE Ben and Jack is a hero. Maybe we should stop thinking about it and just drink the koolaid?

One of the best things about this show, to me, is that we'll be able to discuss this show for thirty years and not get any closer to a consensus.

To me that's the worst thing. If it was discussing the levels of meaning or what we got out of it or themes (good vs. evil or faith vs. science) that would be okay - because like in art, metaphors and meaning can be found in many places.

But what we're arguing about is not the 'art' of the show - it's the rules - something that is either true or not and either the writers know for sure what they were, or there aren't any. :unsure

 

[letmebestormy]

There were no 'rules'. It was an island with magic and dead people and shape shifters and time travel and long cons and scientists and men of faith and monsters and history and temples and polar bears and tattooed sharks and underground ultrasound stations and people throughout time thought they knew what was going on but in almost every case it turned out they were wrong.

We were lucky enough (in my opinion) to see a sliver of that history.

Life is messy. Things are rarely wrapped up neat.

 

[cboath]

There is nothing indicating that Jacob can take any other form except his younger self. To assume that is just guessing...

Here are a few more - how did any of the died on the island ghosts appear off the island to Hurley and how did Richard's ghost wife appear ON the island?

So far as we know, on the island, when someone who doesn't normally see/hear dead people sees an actually dead ghost, it's MIB.

Except MIB and Ben when they saw their dead mom's.

It would only work that MIB was appearing as Walt telling Locke he had things to do... if Walt was dead. But he wasn't.

So, is Walt like Jacob, able to project his living self on and off the island respectively?

The absurdity of this all makes me wonder if it's worth jumping through hoops to figure it out. If there are no obvious 'rules' that the writers went by then they just made it up for the purpose of moving the story along and all we're doing is trying to make ourselves feel better by finding a rhyme and reason.

I tell you what though, if there IS a LOST 'bible' that they went by, it'd sell. I just don't think so at this point.

The more I think on it all, the less I like the series. Emotionally it was great, intellectually... Like a big puzzle with so many missing pieces you can't make out the big picture. :thumbsdown

Maybe I'll change my mind tomorrow, but that's where I am today.

There wasn't direct evidence that Jacob could take other forms or project forms or himself or whatever.

It's the faith aspect of things, though. We do have firsthand evidence he can make people immortal. If you can do that, it's not a stretch at all do appear as different people and/or in different locations. In fact, i'd say it's much easier.

The appearances on island could easily be the island itself as Michael explained to Hurley this season. The island can play with your subconscious.

As for what hurley saw on the mainland....well, we have miles who can sort of talk to the dead. Maybe hurley can occaisonally talk to the dead. Again, they're minor plot points. Technicalities.

 

[Guri]

All I was trying to say is that I'm realizing that I'll probably like the show a whole lot more if I stop trying to figure it out... because there is nothing more to figure out.

 

[wackychimp]

I think it would be worth it to write a Lost-bible, and I am pretty sure that there´s already a handful of Losties out there that does that.

I think Lostpedia counts: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

It's got EVERYTHING (except exact answers )


Some interesting stuff:

• They've transcribed most of the "whispers" the characters hear in the jungle.
• They've got every candidate name listed from the cave and lighthouse.
• Timelines
• A recap of every episode.

I've been digging there a lot in the last 4 months or so.

 

[wackychimp]

How did jack's dad appear off island? Well, there are only 4 possible answers.

1. It was the man in black projecting, but he wanted off the island to see what's out there. If he could project himself, the desire to leave would be much less you'd think.

2. It was jacob. We know he can pop off island, make rules you have to live with, and grant immortality. Taking Christians appearance wouldn't be a leap at all.

3. He was a literal ghost

4. It was in Jacks head.

More importantly though, it's not that big a deal.

In my personal "understanding" of the show, I'd pick #4. This is when Jack's slid into drunkenness and in the very same scene is asking his partner for a prescription for a narcotic. Christian doesn't speak; to me it's more of a vision.

 

[Larry Young]

In my personal "understanding" of the show, I'd pick #4. This is when Jack's slid into drunkenness and in the very same scene is asking his partner for a prescription for a narcotic. Christian doesn't speak; to me it's more of a vision.

I would have thought that, too, if the smoke alarms weren't going off. It's White Smoke Jacob! :lol