Pirates of the Caribbean 6?

Wait, 30b in profit for the year the marvels came out and the marvels will be reason they fall or have money issues? 30b in profit AFTER the marvels loss. The suit against florida? Wasnt related to their finances but and attack back at their chief hater. Also, not decided on actual finding, but more a technical issue more than anything else. Carano is a stunt funded by a 3rd party. You dont think that firing wasnt gone over ad nauseum by lawyers first? Low attendance? I know someone who works there and they arent hurting for attendance. Not to mention the point of the pice increases was to lower attendance.
 
Let’s do a check list:
1. The upcoming Carano lawsuit.
As a preliminary point, I didn't raise all of these issues. You did. I talked about the Carano lawsuit (which I address below), Marvel's performance this year (not THE Marvels, but rather Marvel Studio's), and made a general reference to the kind of stuff people love to kvetch about here, namely their favorite bugaboo of wokeness and representation.

But since you raised these, sure, we'll go point by point.

The Carano lawsuit is not a big deal. It's annoying and it generates a bunch of headlines, but there's a lot we don't know about it, and I suspect that even in Carano's wildest dreams, the actual financial hit that Disney would take would be minimal. Cara Dune as a character is not coming back. Period. To the extent that her lawsuit requests "reinstatement," and to the extent that she's even entitled to such, the underlying issue is that no court is going to require Disney to build an entire TV show around her. People who believe that are either idiots, or people with agendas who know dick about the law. I see this one as a big headline, but not a lot of substance behind it. And it'll continue to get headlines because culture warriors will choose to fight on these grounds. Massive waste of time, though, in my opinion.
2. Gender discrimination lawsuits that have just started.
Dunno about that one. From the one Variety article I read about it, I'd say this is a bigger mess for Disney, but I'd need a better sense of the potential scope of relief sought. This could be a massive pile of money, or it could be not actually all that much, depending on the jobs involved. This one's also a big headline, but if they can actually back it up, then this is certainly more substantive than the Carano suit.
3. Losing 1.3 million subscribers to Disney+ after raising the subscription prices
That story seems overblown, may be worth diving a little more into the details.

Here's the Variety article on point, if you're curious. Sounds like they lost 1.3M from their "core" service, but I'm unsure whether that accounts for adding people to higher tier services or how they classify "core" vs other levels (if they do that at all). Overall, out of a total of 150.2M, they dropped to "only" 149.6M. In other words, overall, they lost (as in, totally canceled service, it seems) about 600K when all is said and done. Not great, but not as bad as the initial headline makes it seem, and it amounts to a percentage drop of...just about 0.4%.

DISNEY LOSES 0.4% OF SUBSCRIBER BASE!!!

Not quite so sexy a headline, no? But ok, I'll be generous and let's say it's the full 1.3M. Well, now we're up to about 0.9%. Almost a full percentage drop!
4. Losing their trillion dollar lawsuit against Florida.
You may not know how federal civil procedure actually works, which is understandable given how the media tends to cover this stuff. Disney has not "lost" the suit. It sounds to me like they had the suit bounced on a 12(b)(6) motion (a motion to dismiss), for lack of standing and/or subject matter jurisdiction, and failure to state a claim (probably). I'd need to read the opinion, but unless you're willing to pay my hourly rate, I'm disinclined at this point. Maybe if this story kicks around more, I'll get more curious about it.

I did skip to the end of the opinion to see the ultimate procedural posture of the case. First, the case was dismissed without prejudice, which means that Disney can refile if they want. Second, they can also appeal this decision to a 3-judge panel of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. And depending on how that goes, they can then appeal to the full 11th Circuit (a.k.a. appealing en banc). And if they lose there, they can appeal to the S.Ct. I won't speculate about a S.Ct. ruling because that'd trend into political discussion, but I will say that there is a lot of procedural road ahead of Disney on this, and the case isn't "over."

Also you describe this as "losing their trillion dollar lawsuit," which I suspect refers to the damages that Disney was requesting from the state, and not some penalty that Disney faced if it lost the case. Put another way, if I lose a "trillion dollar lawsuit" that I filed because my Tesla exploded, that's not the same as me losing a trillion dollars. Unless Disney had to put up a $1T bond, they didn't "lose" a trillion dollars.

5. The Marvels Box office failure
Oh come on. You cannot believe that THIS is the thing that puts Disney under. Come on, man. This is simple economics here. Marvels cost somewhere between $220M and $274M to make. It made around $200M. It's a loss, no question. It is not the ZOMGENDOFTHEWORLDMCUISOVER loss that a bunch of youtube clowns want you to believe it is. It may not even be that high. Why? Because the writers and actors strikes were happening while this film was being released, which meant that the marketing budget may have actually been lower than the usual "budget of the film is the actual budget doubled to include marketing" theory. Again, it's a loss. Probably the worst performing MCU film in a long time (maybe ever? I dunno -- I don't follow this as closely as Marvel haters do, I suppose.) But if you think The Marvels is gonna be the thing that kills the company, well, think again.
6. Low attendance in the parks.
Yeah, that one's an issue, if that's accurate. I don't personally know because I haven't focused on Disney's park attendance. I don't actually care that much. I know that my family and I probably aren't headed to Disney World (which is closer for us), but might consider Disneyland at some point, maybe (personally, I still wanna go to Galaxy's Edge). But again, I'd bet that has a lot more to do with macroeconomic conditions than anything else. People need disposable income to travel and visit amusement parks. When stuff gets tight because the cost of staple goods goes up (either because the actual cost goes up or because the volume of goods goes down but the price remains the same), people just have less money to spend. Similar story to folks not wanting to spend money on movie tickets when a night at the theater is gonna run them +$100 for tickets and food, given that they could just wait for things to hit streaming, watch on a bigscreen TV with surround sound, and make their own food in a couple months.
7. The writer’s strike causing delays in productions.
Yup. That's a problem. But that's not unique to Disney. That's the entire industry, with the possible exception of studios like A24 and some other indies whom I think were allowed to proceed with some productions and which negotiated separately rather than through AMPTP.
And you’re telling me all of that isn’t going to cause Disney to sweat. Okay. If you say so.

Some stuff will cause Disney to sweat. But a ton depends on what the shareholders think. I would bet that a bigger question is what kind of finance deals lurk in the background rather than the stuff you've pointed to. Those probably cause way more agita. If, for example, Disney has partnership deals where they're expected to pay up a bunch of money and they need to be more liquid than they are to do that, yeah, THAT'S gonna be a problem, because then they have to sell a bunch of stuff to make ends meet. That's a bigger deal.

But there's a bunch of stuff in your list that's just, frankly, small potatoes for a company like Disney. It grabs big headlines, but it doesn't actually matter to their bottom line. They're a multibillion dollar megacorp, man. They don't give a **** about Gina Carano's stupid lawsuit. Hell, she could win hands-down 100% and it still would barely chip Disney's paint.

Look, I get that a lot of folks have a half-chub for seeing Disney take it in the shorts because they don't like how movies are being made today. But the stuff that's actually going to hurt Disney are things that have zip to do with that stuff. It has to do more with people tightening their belts as consumer expenses rise at a rate that outpaces pay increases, and with general shifts in audience tendencies to go to theaters or amusement parks or other expensive outings when they can just stay home and stream things.

There are similar macroeconomic pressures affecting all kinds of other sectors of the economy, and a ton has to do with the lingering effects of the pandemic. Not because of fears of getting sick, but because people got a LOT more used to doing stuff remotely as a result. Remote work, remote dining (a.k.a. grubhub, etc.), remote movies (a.k.a. streaming), and so on. That has disrupted consumer habits the way Amazon disrupted shopping tendencies, and it's the kind of thing that has long-term effects and to which industries across the board are always slow to respond. Disney's no exception there.

I'd be curious as to whether Disney is suffering any losses, and if so, whether those losses are in some way out of line for the industry as a whole. If they're doing better than the industry, then none of this crap matters. It's an industry problem and everyone's suffering, and so the industry will adjust and Disney's probably better positioned than most to do that. If it's something specific to Disney (i.e., they are hurting more than other similarly situated megacorps), then maybe they worry.
 
Staying on topic, anyone remember that Gina Davis pirate movie block buster? exactly no one does.
I do :p .

Cutthroat Island. Though I've never seen it except for the last battle and end of the movie (which I barely remember because it was so long ago). I happened to catch it (more like stumbled on it) on TV one time and was kind of shocked by how good it looked like it had a big budget (which it did). They must have not had much money left for promotion though because I wondered why I had never heard of it or saw trailers for it in the theater despite Gina Davis being a big star at the time.. Apparently it was a huge bomb at the box office.

I should finally give it a proper watch. I have a feeling it's not that bad. The 90's had some chaotic productions. Like I said it looked good. The score must be good too as I saw it was reissued recently.
 
I do :p .

Cutthroat Island. Though I've never seen it except for the last battle and end of the movie (which I barely remember because it was so long ago). I happened to catch it (more like stumbled on it) on TV one time and was kind of shocked by how good it looked like it had a big budget (which it did). They must have not had much money left for promotion though because I wondered why I had never heard of it or saw trailers for it in the theater despite Gina Davis being a big star at the time.. Apparently it was a huge bomb at the box office.

I should finally give it a proper watch. I have a feeling it's not that bad. The 90's had some chaotic productions. Like I said it looked good. The score must be good too as I saw it was reissued recently.
You’ve clinched it for me. I might check it out. I mean, it’s a Renny Harlin film, so I’m pretty sure how action packed it’s gonna be.
 
I do :p .

Cutthroat Island. Though I've never seen it except for the last battle and end of the movie (which I barely remember because it was so long ago). I happened to catch it (more like stumbled on it) on TV one time and was kind of shocked by how good it looked like it had a big budget (which it did). They must have not had much money left for promotion though because I wondered why I had never heard of it or saw trailers for it in the theater despite Gina Davis being a big star at the time.. Apparently it was a huge bomb at the box office.

I should finally give it a proper watch. I have a feeling it's not that bad. The 90's had some chaotic productions. Like I said it looked good. The score must be good too as I saw it was reissued recently.
It bombed so bad. It's the single reason they stopped making female lead action movies until girls 20 years later started crying about needing more strong women. It's really that movies fault. Just like Black Cauldron changed the way Disney made animation movies.

Well I guess there was that underworld franchise...we'll ignore that one though.
 
'Cutthroat Island' didn't kill female action heroes in the 1990s. There were plenty of others.

But it did completely kill pirate movies in its aftermath.
'Waterworld' came out the same year and the combination really ended the genre for a while.

When Disney rolled the dice on a new pirate movie (the one with Johnny Depp) in 2003, the pump was primed. There hadn't been real hit pirate movie in a long time.


'Cutthroat' seemed like one of those cases of the public being really fickle & unpredictable. On paper it's hard to figure out why that movie bombed so badly.

At the time I remember thinking the tone was off. It looked a notch too swashbuckling/cheesy for a movie aimed at teens & adults. But it didn't have the components or tone for a kids movie either. And the cast list was capable/watchable but it didn't have any A-list ticket-sellers.

'Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves' was the same sort of product 5 years earlier. But that one had several big stars in peak form and the movie's tone had a dark edge (for a Robin Hood flick). Those things made a big difference. 'Cutthroat' came out the same year as 'Braveheart'. PG-rated swashbuckling historical epics had gotten pretty uncool right then. The public was responding to more gritty realism.
 
What were the other ones? Tank girl, barb wire and le fem nikita are the only ones I can remember.

I still think the best pirate movie of all time is and always will be Ice Pirates.
 
What were the other ones? Tank girl, barb wire and le fem nikita are the only ones I can remember.

Kill Bill, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Underworld, Tomb Raider, to name a few.

And if you look outside the top-protagonist spot, there are female action heroes all over the late-90s/early-2000s. The Matrix, Starship Troopers, The Mummy Returns, Lord of the Rings, etc.

Female action heroes have been a normal thing since at least the late 1970s.


If anything, it's the conventional damsel-in-distress characters that have been gradually disappearing. They do exist but they are almost never in pure form now.

When's the last time Hollywood had a major/lead character like Aurora from 'Sleeping Beauty'? Somebody who is just a 100% conventional, beautiful, passive, trad-woman? Like, there is no stereotype-breaking scene where she shows a ton of backbone or resourcefulness?
 
Last edited:
Up until the last few years, I don't think these movies failed because there was a female lead. They were just bad movies. We're in an era now where they start with a premise like All Female Cast and then figure out a story because they favor their ideology over every other aspect of filmmaking. (Lucasfilm's Sequel whiteboard proved that in one case). They even favor that over entertaining and making money which is the entire reason for the whole enterprise! Write a good story, then cast the appropriate people, whoever that may be.
 
1707925800204.png
 
Hold on while I hoist my grump old man flag, but I'm not sure this series has been good since the first movie.

I couldn't make it through 2 or 3 without falling asleep, and didn't even bother after that. They got overly long, and kinda stopped being fun at the cost of giving Depp more leeway to Sparrow about.

Agreed. The first POTC was an instant classic. But the sequels became kind of a slog. If I come across the sequels flipping channels then I might keep watching for a few minutes. But I never feel like sitting down and watching them for real. The first one still holds up better.

It was a case of Charismatic Supporting Character Syndrome. He steals the show the first time and he gets moved to the forefront. But it never works that well again because he belonged on the side. Steve Urkel. Huge Jackman's Wolverine. Etc.

The Star Wars OT could have made that mistake with Han Solo. George Lucas was smart not to give in to his popularity and shift the focus away from Luke. It had to be tempting. Mark got his face busted up in that car accident. Harrison turned out to have legit acting chops and his star power was taking off more than Mark's. Luke Skywalker's Jedi mentor had been killed off during ANH for pacing reasons, and replacing him was gonna be a difficult. Harrison & Carrie's real-life chemistry was jumping off the screen. Lucas's next big project was a whole franchise starring Harrison.
 
Last edited:

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.
Back
Top