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Donkey also had a character arc and helped Shrek break through his rough exterior. Jar Jar didn't change whatsoever from the beginning of the movie until the end. Even if he'd matured during the battle or did something selfless to help padme or something of significance it would have been enough for people to not totally write him off completely. Plus humor has to punctuate an action adventure type movie, it never works as a non sequitur when the bumbling idiot literally offers zero help to the group. If he's a nuisance to our heroes by extension he's the same to the audience.
 
Yeah, I don't recall ever hearing criticism of Yoda. That was one time where they swung for cute-appeal and hit a home run. R2-D2 was another one.

Even the Ewoks were hits in terms of the character designs. The problem was how their roles were written.


Jar-Jar was the most legit failure. The production design wasn't bad, but people didn't really take to it either. The writing was a miss but IMO it wasn't a terrible idea in theory. They rolled the dice on it and lost that round.

Look at Eddie Murphy's Donkey character in 'Shrek'. He's another sidekick. The main character picks him up along the journey. He has a dash of racial/ethnic tone. He follows the main character around, talking too much & causing trouble & annoying him. Etc. Was Donkey so different from Jar-Jar on paper? He went over so much better with viewers than Jar-Jar did. Audience reactions to comedy can be very hard to predict.
That is a freak’n amazing comparison!
 
Let's face it Star Wars Ep. IV was lightning in a bottle. Ep. V was the rare, lightning striking twice. Ep. VI was like a fork in a light socket. Everything after that is like the little static shock you get from laundry in the dryer.

Lucas was an actual nerd, who also drove fast cars. He was an introvert who desired deeply to be a real boy. Hence the fast cars, and the Millennium Falcon. He had limits at this time, money and technology limits. They forced him to get frugal in what he could actually show on screen. As the money grew and technology increases his product suffered. He now has the ability to push more and more "stuff" into the films. But the restriction imposed by the limiteds funds actually tightened and enhanced the visuals and the story. Less is more. Just look at the progression or regression of the films as they appeared. They became more visually busy but the story suffers. The prequels were beautiful films visually. But the writing and acting was just bland and sometimes cringe. I.E. " The sand gets everywhere ". Lucas focused on the effects now that he had near unlimited funds. We all love effects here, but most know that effects don't make the movie.

Now Disney has followed that trend to the nth degree. They do have unlimited funds. But they don't have the Nerd. They have directors and writers that are professing fans, who aren't really fans at all. They are people who may have seen the movies once or twice, and maybe even liked it. With a few exceptions most of them are more interested in the " message " than the Star Wars story. They want to shoehorn their own political biases and agenda into everything they do. The story is secondary to the agenda. They are propagandists not filmmakers. To them if they loose a little money, or a lot is irrelevant. If they convert one person to their side, their job is done. Hell, even if no one is converted, but you piss off the other side, that is enough.

Now of course there are many people working at Disney that just want to do their jobs and get a pay check. But they are not usually the ones with creative control. They're the gaffers and electricians and 3d artists.

My only concern in all of this, is the loss of potential and possiblity. We've lost all the original characters and that is to be expected. People get old, people die. It's the way they were exited from the story that hurts. We only had a short time to get it done, and it was totally screwed up.

Again the new vision trump's everything that came before. The old guard didn't matter. They were on the way out. Let's bring in the new, and denigrate the old. The fans be damned. Let's subvert their expectations. This is my thing now. I will do it however I want. If they don't like it, it's because they're sexist, racist, misogynist, ableist, and any ist you can think of. They're not disappointed fans, they're actually bad people. We don't want their money. We don't want them as fans. Why would we. We're the righteous folks. We are the tolerant ones. Well as long as you like our garbage movies and shows. If you don't it's obviously because you hate women and people of color. So shove off you neanderthals. Crawl back under your rock, we don't need or want you. And we'll tell you so in every comment section of our trailers and on every social media platform. And so the spiral down continues.

Don't respect the source material and fans don't like it. Some non discerning latte licker might enjoy all the woke pandering you shove out. They might see it once. But they won't buy any merchandise. And they won't go back and see it again. They won't pour over part maps to find a part stuck on a filming model from 40+ years ago. They wont obsess over minutia that even the original builders can't remember. Do you have to be crazy to be a Star Wars fan ? No, but you know the rest. ; )
 
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If Lucas had been just a little more subtle with Jar Jar's humor it would've worked so much better. I didn't care for him very much because he was just too over the top and in your face with everything. I felt like Lucas was talking down to kids with him. My younger brother and his friends who were 7 years old when the TPM came out couldn't stand Jar Jar, yet loved the rest of the film.

When I was watching ROTJ as a kid I assumed that the Ewoks were going to attack the Empire before their encounter with the Rebels because otherwise they wouldn't have been so prepared and their vibe towards the Empire seemed quite hostile. I guess I thought the context given was more than enough to explain that, even for a kid. One improvement could've been to show the Rebels and Ewoks working together a bit more in the battle.
 
Again the new vision trump's everything that came before. The old guard didn't matter. They were on the way out. Let's bring in the new, and denigrate the old. The fans be damned. Let's subvert their expectations. This is my thing now. I will do it however I want. If they don't like it, it's because they're sexist, racist, misogynist, ableist, and any ist you can think of. They're not disappointed fans, they're actually bad people. We don't want their money. We don't want them as fans. Why would we. We're the righteous folks. We are the tolerant ones. Well as long as you like our garbage movies and shows. If you don't it's obviously because you hate women and people of color. So shove off you neanderthals. Crawl back under your rock, we don't need or want you. And we'll tell you so in every comment section of our trailers and on every social media platform. And so the spiral down continues.

A summary that applies to essentially every modern-day incarnation of 70's/ 80's theatrical goodness.
You sir, win the internet.

Excited Season 6 GIF by The Office
 
Probably a lot of gun emplacements in the trench. As well as other places. It's always interesting to see how various games add guns. It would be interesting to see where X-wing Alliance, Rogue Squadron II and III have them. Particularly Rogue Squadron, because they have a ton of guns in those games.
Here's Fractal Sponge's model, idealized. But he puts in gun emplacements where they kinda realistically should be. Imperial Star Destroyer Closeups – Fractalsponge.net
From what I remember of the various scenes showing ISDs shooting, you see bolts coming from all over the making hu;ll of this ship, from both ventral and dorsal sides of the hull as (apparently) from the trench area as well.
 
Yeah I much prefer Halliwax and the Vadermania efforts too. These YouTube guys are amatuers. Our RPF members are freaking pros!
You really can't compare the two because they were trying to accomplish 2 different things. The Corridor Crew were trying to simulate the methods used onset to create the lightsabers as welll as make the blades appear like they do onscreen but doing it in camera without LEDs or any other internal light source. From what I can tell of the Hwlliwax video, they were trying to create a screen accurat prop with internal lighting. 2 diffrerent things, in my opinion, and neither one is better than the other, jsut 2 different ways to acheive the same effect.
 
Halliwax recreated the original methods used by Jon Stears and his on set FX crew from ANH with rotating blade/ Scotchlite/ motor and all. Danny does some FX type installed hilts too, but he's a big proponent of doing the original replicas as the effects team did for the films back in the day.

Honestly the quality of the work from this YouTube video looked amatuerish and sloppy, regardless of the specifics of the technique. Halliwax work is much neater, more precise. Even setting aside the replica hilt itself, the other guys look like they slapped theirs together. It may have been effective but for people that are supposed to work in the effects industry, vs. Danny's work in his garage I find his much, much more impressive, like I said, even setting aside the replica hilt. I also love Halliwax and these guys by comparison are irritating to listen to so I watched most of their video on mute so I didn't have to listen to them.
 
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Some non discerning latte licker might enjoy all the woke pandering you shove out. They might see it once. But they won't buy any merchandise. And they won't go back and see it again. They won't pour over part maps to find a part stuck on a filming model from 40+ years ago. They wont obsess over minutia that even the original builders can't remember.
The new standard. Unfortunately.
 
You really can't compare the two because they were trying to accomplish 2 different things. The Corridor Crew were trying to simulate the methods used onset to create the lightsabers as welll as make the blades appear like they do onscreen but doing it in camera without LEDs or any other internal light source. From what I can tell of the Hwlliwax video, they were trying to create a screen accurat prop with internal lighting. 2 diffrerent things, in my opinion, and neither one is better than the other, jsut 2 different ways to acheive the same effect.
Forgive me if I'm misreading your post, Riceball, but Halliwax didn't use leds in his lightsaber. He also used the same on set method as ANH.
 
Again the new vision trump's everything that came before. The old guard didn't matter. They were on the way out. Let's bring in the new, and denigrate the old. The fans be damned. Let's subvert their expectations. This is my thing now. I will do it however I want. If they don't like it, it's because they're sexist, racist, misogynist, ableist, and any ist you can think of. They're not disappointed fans, they're actually bad people. We don't want their money. We don't want them as fans. Why would we. We're the righteous folks. We are the tolerant ones. Well as long as you like our garbage movies and shows. If you don't it's obviously because you hate women and people of color. So shove off you neanderthals. Crawl back under your rock, we don't need or want you. And we'll tell you so in every comment section of our trailers and on every social media platform. And so the spiral down continues.

Don't respect the source material and fans don't like it. Some non discerning latte licker might enjoy all the woke pandering you shove out. They might see it once. But they won't buy any merchandise. And they won't go back and see it again. They won't pour over part maps to find a part stuck on a filming model from 40+ years ago. They wont obsess over minutia that even the original builders can't remember. Do you have to be crazy to be a Star Wars fan ? No, but you know the rest. ; )
This is a trend I see with modern movies that just baffles me to be honest.

I am not a fan of the new Marvel stuff, I guess its 4th wave or something now. I admit I am a little burned out with super hero films but I do still enjoy the Boys which, although is a subversion of super heroes and does mock Marvel, also is quite well written.

I realize one of my distaste of the modern MCU, and a sentiment I notice is not unique to just me, is that there is this incentive by Disney to have the new guard disrespect and be "superior" to the old. She-Hulk's writing is bad but I think a huge issue stems from the mere fact that she already has better control of her powers and is more "skilled" than the Hulk despite the Hulk being the Hulk for far longer, nevermind the incel jokes about Captain America. Same with Jane Thor being a better Thor than Thor himself, Loki being made a joke, etc. Instead of a gentle transition from the old to the new, recognizing that although the old is great their time has passed (or they just want to retire); there is this incentive to trivialize the old guard in favor for the new. Not only is that just disrespectful to the old guard, it makes the new completely unlikable to the existing fans.

The problem with woke pandering is that there is no subtlety in the story telling. Its a clear side A is good, side B is bad strawman argument that makes the "villains" unrealistic but such people honestly dont exist and make the protagonists seem like immature idiots because they are "fighting" against this imaginary enemy. The woke messaging is also so poorly thought out that I tend to believe the writers themselves dont truly understand the issues themselves or they would be able to actually provide more realistic situations that would make an audience think. Hell, there are 90s cartoon shows that do a better job at providing social commentary than these modern "woke" shows.
 
So many modern villains are either one note generic bad guys, or they're not even a viable threat and therefore dilutes any tension in the story. A protagonist is only as strong as their antagonist and vice versa. Even in a story with no personified villain (as an example a character fighting cancer) , if the conflict is easily surmountable then there isn't much for the audience to emotionally invest in. Effective story is only effective when conflict is present and balanced with a realistic struggle to overcome it. Even if those struggles are internal, they can be just as riveting when crafted by a skilled writer.

I'm convinced that so many of the people who write a lot of the content we watch in film and television are simply not writers. They may have a degree, they may have studied literature or fiction, but they understand it as a concept or in theory, and don't have enough experience writing fiction to effectively do their jobs. That's one scenario. In the more common scenario, you have overly educated/ or morons who failed upward who have no writing ability, and are given an opportunity to write in beloved franchises, based on cursory nostalgic memories of said property, but warped by cynicism and ego to the point where what they create is a Frankenstein's monster, barely recognizable as human. I like to define these types as bots, who use some of the fiction writing structure and rules but clearly don't understand why those rules exist or how they work.

Writing is an art and most of these people are not creative. Not artists. They have no understanding what a story is, how it works, why it resonates. All they know how to do is sell things. They're marketing people. Business people, who like to dabble in creative endevours but lack the skills to be creative themselves.
 
They're marketing people. Business people, who like to dabble in creative endevours but lack the skills to be creative themselves.
Failed marketing people. Failed business people who think they can dabble but severely lack the skills to be creative themselves.

Lack of talent, skill, creativity, common sense, etc. is one of many epidemics going on right now in the entertainment industry.

The good news is that soon enough the industry will be seeking-out those who do have talent/skills/creativity/common sense, etc.
 
Meh. There is a tendency to blame the script writers for problems that were caused by higher-ups. Producers & directors & studios.


Is an old episode of 'Knight Rider' badly written?

Imagine the kind of restrictions those writers probably had:

"It has to take place entirely in northern Los Angeles. Must have 3 car chases and 2 big stunts inside of 1 hour. You can wreck several cars but no destroying buildings/structures unless it's stock footage. No flashing back or forward in time more than a couple of years because of the prop & costume expenses. Hasselhoff must save the day at least twice. He should get a girl at the end. He cannot use a gun unless he's bluffing and doesn't intend to shoot anybody. Try to avoid using characters under 15yo because of child labor law restrictions. The commercial breaks happen at 15, 30, and 45 minutes, and we need tense cliffhangers there. Don't make the dialogue too elaborate or reliant on precise timing because we have to get the whole episode filmed in 11 days. BTW you have 3 weeks from tomorrow to get it written."


Are modern writers too woke & un-creative? Or is their creativity being choked off by corporate filmmaking? It's probably some of both. I mean, you KNOW they get ordered to write race/gender-diverse casts in projects where it doesn't belong.
 
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Meh. There is a tendency to blame the script writers for problems that were caused by higher-ups. Producers & directors & studios.


Is an old episode of 'Knight Rider' badly written?

Imagine the kind of restrictions those writers probably had:

"It has to take place entirely in northern Los Angeles. Must have 3 car chases and 2 big stunts inside of 1 hour. You can wreck several cars but no destroying buildings/structures unless it's stock footage. No flashing back or forward in time more than a couple of years because of the prop & costume expenses. Hasselhoff must save the day at least twice. He should get a girl at the end. He cannot use a gun unless he's bluffing and doesn't intend to shoot anybody. Try to avoid using characters under 15yo because of child labor law restrictions. The commercial breaks happen at 15, 30, and 45 minutes, and we need tense cliffhangers there. Don't make the dialogue too elaborate or reliant on precise timing because we have to get the whole episode filmed in 11 days. BTW you have 3 weeks from tomorrow to get it written."


Are modern writers too woke & un-creative? Or is their creativity being choked off by corporate filmmaking? It's probably some of both. I mean, you KNOW they get ordered to write race/gender-diverse casts in projects where it doesn't belong.
Yes, but there‘s a difference between adjusting a story to fit physical restrictions and monetary limitations in order to try to keep the show on budget while trying to make sure it stays entertaining in a time where $1 million dollars per episode as a LOT of money, and sacrificing story and character for politics that aren’t even going to matter in another five years. Seriously, for Knight Rider, there is zero politics involved in unless they’re the cause of a lot of problems in the situation of the week (and if there is, they’re typically portrayed as a negative). And it was that lack of adjusting enough to keep the cost low that lead to Universal cancelling the show despite the viewership numbers didn’t drop. The show never suffered a story stagnation issue like other shows that went on for too long, resulting in a drop in viewership. It was just flat out killed by Universal because decided they didn’t want to produce action-based TV shows (and was KR was one of two shows cancelled as a result, despite having a still having a large viewership).

I agree that it’s a bit of both, mostly because modern writers that are hired clearly don’t know jack about creating stories with depth and characters that are well developed, while those that know how to do both are being stifled to fit with trends. And as a result, the quality sucks. I doubt that most of the stuff produced for Star Wars or Marvel in this current period of time will be looked back upon as favorable, or as “misunderstood” like the Prequel Trilogy was after the Sequel Trilogy started.
 
I suspect it's both but ultimately the end result is all that matters. Time constraints, or other limitations can be navigated well by skilled writers and despite those inhibitors they can still churn out a great product.

Ultimately time is always the test of these stories. The best ones endure and the rest are forgotten. Give it another decade and the most popular things now will be relegated to the past or so outdated with their references and ideas that it's going to either be painful or unwatchable.

I'm not at all interested in "content". I'm interested in story. The fact that content as a word is being utilized as one of the main descriptors of modern storytelling is only further evidence of the corporatization of movies and television and the dying art of stories. I think the mentality is that a story can be corporatized and that's why everything needs to be a franchise, instead of a single movie. It's a perpetual revenue stream, not a tale for escaping reality for a few hours, or God forbid, even art.....

The point ultimately being that those who write these are often not artists themselves. They're corporate minds. Business people. Art and business can and should work very well together, but they are two distinct sides of the equation. Hollywood wants to blur those lines anymore by hiring "writers" who are in fact, not writers at all.
 
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I think O'Shea Jackson, at least for me and my nephew, was one of the bright spots of the show. I really hope they bring him back on Andor or something once he's matured as a resistance leader a little more.

One thing that bugs me about Ahsoka and Luke in The Mandalorian last season was that we didn't get to see their initial meeting. Also she didn't interact with R2, who is the one being in the show that knows her the best! I hope we get a flashback with her telling Luke about Anakin and Padme. I really want that scene of her coming up to Artoo and saying something like "Hello old friend."
 
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