Lets talk all things Star Wars

[ghostryder]

 

[HeartBlade]

Was this posted? Some interesting ideas in here:

Yeah, seen this before and helped me realize that the PT arnt just bad movies with no merit but actually good and some great ideas just executed poorly. The dude basically edited episode one and added some ideas as opposed to remaking the entire thing.

i do kind of dislike the romance angle he has between Obi Wan and Padme because Obi becomes kind of a bad character (he left in the middle of a fight for a girl he barely knows) but it does fit with Lucas’ vision of star wars as a soap. Star wars didnt have a love triangle in PT which is a fundamental of soap opera lol.

I also agree Maul should have been the recurring main villain. PT jumped from Maul to Dooku to Grievous and you didnt have much of a connection with any one of them. No idea why Lucas did that.

 

[Psab keel]

There were rumors during the early 2000's that the triangle between Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padme would mirror Othello, with Palpatine playing the Iago to Anakin's Othello, which I would have loved to have seen. While the parallels would have been overt, seeing the operatic nature of this type of betrayal, or perceived betrayal on a galactic scale would certainly have been more welcome that how it actually ended up playing out.

 

[HeartBlade]

Seeing his redos for episode 2 and 3, 2’a change is quite drastic. I agree its the worst of PT but the new proposed PT arguably focuses too much on Anakin and Obi Wan and not enough on Padme and Anakin. I also think quite a bit is missed in the new proposed 2. 2 is arguably meant to show Anakin as weak and begin fueling the fire for why he wants so much power at all costs. He is afraid of losing the ones he loves, something that is a big theme with him.

Anakin only has his mom and he sees her death. Not only that, its a very cruel death, basically being beaten and tortured, not something like dying in her sleep or a moisture farm accident. Despite being a jedi and one of the strongest jedi at that, Anakin is completely helpless when it comes to protecting the one he loves most. I also think its genuine when Anakin is sad that Obi wan jokes Anakin will be the death of him because his mom and Obi are the only ones he has.

Now in 3, it makes sense why he is swayed by Palp’s talk about saving someone fro death. Anakin foresees Padme’s death, just like he did his mom. Anakin is even stronger now but no matter how strong he is, he still cant prevent death as a jedi. Palps shows there is a way so Anakin takes it, basically sacrifing everything to save the ones he loves.

Also think this ties well with RotJ as a result. Anakin/Vader is basically dead and has settled to be Vader’s puppet until death. Its recognizing that Luke is his son and his deep desire to save his loved ones that spurs Anakin back into action and sacrifice himself to save his son. (Yeah torturing his own daughter Leia is then out of place but maybe chalk that up to brainwashing and not really realizing they are his kids until ESB/RotJ).

 

[ghostryder]

https://imgur.com/a/YeONl2D

 

[ghostryder]

A few memes at this link:

https://imgur.com/a/5frgBvp

 

[Psab keel]

Except the biggest problem with Anakin's turn is that Palpatine never tells him how he will be able to cheat death or even stop it. In fact the moment Anakin turns Palpatine even admits to him that "if we work together, I'm sure we will discover the secret" or something to that effect. Which boils down to Anakin turning on an empty promise. It doesn't make him a tragic figure, it makes him stupid. You'd think Anakin would turn on him right then and there because he'd been betrayed, but he never questions it.

While the idea itself isn't bad, the Greek idea of trying to cheat the Fates (death) it was just poorly executed.

For example: I'm not married to this idea, but just as an illustration of how if developed even just a bit further it would have given more credibility to the story.

What could have been interesting is if Palpatine brings a dead person back to life right in front of Anakin using Sith powers to prove that this wasn't just some sort of trick, but what he doesn't allow Anakin to see is that either life leaves the body soon after as it's only temporary, or that it corrupts the body so the person brought back would be evil. Something to that effect would illustrate that even when successful, reanimation was an ability that went against the Force and nature itself which is why it was only used by the Sith. It could also explain Palpatine's appearance because the power necessary to reanimate could drain life Force from the person performing the Sith practice. It could have even been a visual metaphor of the Sith's selfishness to hold on to what nature claimed as it's own by trying to deny mortality itself. In this way it also deepens our understanding of the Force, the way the Jedi relate to it, and how the Sith use it for their own ends.

Symbolically the Jedi would then represent Life (by allowing the natural course of time to take place) and the Sith would represent Death (by trying to stunt the natural course of time) and would instantly pit their ideologies against each other. The Sith broke away from the Jedi when they sought immortality in the flesh, where the Jedi sought immortality in the spirit. This idea has far more implications on the fate of the galaxy than just who is going to rule, because if the Sith control the mortal plane itself what's scarier than that?

 

[HeartBlade]

Except the biggest problem with Anakin's turn is that Palpatine never tells him how he will be able to cheat death or even stop it. In fact the moment Anakin turns Palpatine even admits to him that "if we work together, I'm sure we will discover the secret" or something to that effect. Which boils down to Anakin turning on an empty promise. It doesn't make him a tragic figure, it makes him stupid. You'd think Anakin would turn on him right then and there because he'd been betrayed. Instead he gets knighted as Darth Vader and just goes along with whatever Palpatine says despite being told that he could learn to cheat death if he only joined the Dark Side. Or Palpatine could have lied and told Anakin he would only show him the ability if Anakin did all these evil tasks for him. Even that simple distinction could have given it more meaning rather than admitting that even Palpy didn't know how to do it himself.

While the idea itself isn't bad, the Greek idea of trying to cheat the Fates (death) it was just poorly executed.

For example: I'm not married to this idea, but just as an illustration of how if developed even just a bit further it would have given more credibility to the story.

What could have been interesting is if Palpatine brings a dead person back to life right in front of Anakin using Sith powers to prove that this wasn't just some sort of trick, but what he doesn't allow Anakin to see is that either the life leaves the body soon after as it's only temporary, or that it corrupts the body so the person brought back would be evil. Something to that effect would illustrate that even when successful, reanimation was an ability that went against the Force and nature itself which is why it was only used by the Sith. It could have even been a visual metaphor of the Sith's selfishness to hold on to what nature claimed as it's own by trying to deny mortality itself. In this way it also deepens our understanding of the Force, the way the Jedi relate to it, and how the Sith use it for their own ends.

I kind of feel that if Anakin gets duped by a magic trick, he would also look like a fool but yeah, he is a tragic fool.

i do think one thing episode 3 does especially poorly is it doesnt show that Anakin has no option but Palpatine. Someone mentioned that Anakin wanted to become a master not because of the title but so he can get access to the restricted part of the archives which contains the secret to healing with the force. Had this been included, Anakin’s motivation would have been more clear, maybe he goes into the archives and

I sort of took it as Anakin trusts Palpatine who has treated him well and Palpatine did state that the jedi had no answer so at least with Palps he has the possibility. The fact that Padme dies so soon and Anakin never revives her does make him a putz as well lol.

I did find Lucas’ conception of Vader to be interesting and maybe a driving reason on why people hate the PT. The PT does make Anakin/Vader an idiot and not the cool intimidating villain that he is in ANH. However, Lucas points out that Vader is a pathetic character and if you watch the OT as if it were one movie, Vader basically goes from intimidating warrior to an old man struggling to breath through a ventilator. The PT brings that to the forefront and I understand fans hate that depiction of Vader.

but i do agree that Anakin was rash and foolish and was pretty stupid as a result. Also agree that force reviving shouldnt be a thing period because it does go against the natural order and having it not be a thing would further highlight Anakin’s foolishness and immaturity. Hence why I really dislike Rey’s i can cure even death force healing powers.

 

[ghostryder]

https://imgur.com/a/MuL3E0N

 

[Psab keel]

Yeah even my example does bring up other narrative problems which is why I'm not totally married to the idea. It becomes too fan fiction (ish) but it does show that the kernel of the idea coming from the Greek tragedies where the hero tries to cheat the Fates against their destiny is not a bad bit of inspiration. It just has to be executed in a believable manner for it to work.

Or if it had been further drafted George could have created a scenario where Anakin was smart, but had to choose between the lesser of two or more evils and that was his downfall for getting into the scenario in the first place. Perhaps it could have been from a decision he made when he was younger that the consequences took years to catch up to him so that even while over time he's matured, it still became unavoidable. It certainly would have lent itself to the idea of a tragic figure. It also could have shown that actions have consequences and not always good ones either.

 

[ScourgiousJinx]

I think Anakin being power hungry should've been further developed in the PT. Also on board that he was depicted as too naive, too ignorant even with him being a pathetic character. His fall could've been handled differently, more drawn out than its was (which is partially why his character should've been older in TPM). Would've been great for the Mace Windu "death" to be Anakin's lightsaber passing through his chest. Especially after the way he killed Dooku to show that he's fallen more to the dark side by choice instead of just consequence.

 

[Psab keel]

Or what if Anakin became dissolusioned with the Jedi and wanted to start his own order, and while his intentions were noble at first, Palpatine moves in and starts corrupting the ideals that Anakin strives for and gets him to align with the Dark Side unwittingly by masking the truth with moral ambiguity.

I mean there are tons and tons of ways it could have played out. It's just fun to theorize and toy with the concepts. I think it's the potential that makes these stories feel limitless.

 

[HeartBlade]

Or what if Anakin became dissolusioned with the Jedi and wanted to start his own order, and while his intentions were noble at first, Palpatine moves in and starts corrupting the ideals that Anakin strives for and gets him to align with the Dark Side unwittingly by masking the truth with moral ambiguity.

I mean there are tons and tons of ways it could have played out. It's just fun to theorize and toy with the concepts. I think it's the potential that makes these stories feel limitless.

Creating his own order? Never thought about it but im actually not 100% against.

Anakin is a ***** figure so like ***** creating his apostles separate from the church which he saw as getting corrupt, so could Anakin try to create his own order after being disillusioned with the flaws of the current jedi order. Would also reinforce the idea that the jedi are good guys but not perfect which is why Luke is the ultimate good guy for taking a third option.

I would kind of be a dick move to create a “splinter” group during the middle of a war though.

But anyone have any insight on why Lucas decided to make 3 separate bad guys (apart from more toys?). It did hurt the narrative with grievous being the worst because he comes out of nowhere in episode 3. I dont think Gary Kurtz was the “savior of star wars” as some fans like to make him out to be but I do think Lucas needed some people to bounce ideas off of like Spielberg or Ron Howard. The “creatives” around him during PT did not help.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

*points at the Inquisitors* I mean... Anakin kinda did create his own Order...

alienscollection.com, the thumbnail sketch of the old EU was a nice summary, but I'm curious why. *heh* And as skilled as that last one was, Slave I's cockpit doesn't rotate, has never rotated. Not in Empire, not in AOTC, not in The Mandalorian. The Falcon has internal gravity fields that have the gunnery chairs on a plane at 90° to the main deck of the ship. Shouldn't be any kind of stretch to have the same thing in Slave I.

 

[ghostryder]

*points at the Inquisitors* I mean... Anakin kinda did create his own Order...

alienscollection.com, the thumbnail sketch of the old EU was a nice summary, but I'm curious why. *heh* And as skilled as that last one was, Slave I's cockpit doesn't rotate, has never rotated. Not in Empire, not in AOTC, not in The Mandalorian. The Falcon has internal gravity fields that have the gunnery chairs on a plane at 90° to the main deck of the ship. Shouldn't be any kind of stretch to have the same thing in Slave I.

Did the Kenner toy have one that rotated - can't remember...?

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

It did. No one knows why they did that to get the action figure in rather than making the canopy hinged to open. Then MPC also made their model kit with a rotating cockpit module, probably because of the Kenner toy, as it doesn't match the source material.

 

[Laspector]

Here's a little something I find interesting that I never noticed. Forget all the "Han shot first" stuff. In this behind the scenes picture we see the layout for the scene. I had always assumed Han shot Greedo under the table. From the way the scene was originally edited I got the impression that Han's gunhand was hidden from Greedo's view, thus Han being able to undo the strap and draw the gun and shoot him under the table. Clearly, I was wrong as the table is obviously solid (I suppose a blaster could maybe shoot through the table?). So, Han just shot around the table? Greedo couldn't see this coming?

I guess I need to watch the scene again. Am I remembering this wrong?

 

[Psab keel]

Maybe Han's leg is blocking his view?

 

[RodanAZ]

I always thought the shot would have had to have gone through Han's leg...

 

[harrisonp]

Greedo thinks he has him dead to rights and hubris gets the better of him allowing Han to get the shot off. If you want a pulled out of my sarlac pit answer I’ll say that Rodians don’t perceive the visual spectrum the same way as humans and he missed it