Lets talk all things Star Wars

[Captain Dunsel]

And if I'm completely honest here, I'm little tired of the whole 'its okay to like it, but it's bad.' Or the 'its okay to like it but you have to admit it's bad.'(haven't gotten that one said to me yet, here, thankfully) I mean let's turn this around. I can say that it's okay to dislike the ST, but it's awesome. Does that make me right? Nope.

Sorry, just had to vent.

Yes, I agree overall, but—you must start off with the objective truth that the Sequel Trilogy sucks, before moving on to any other comparative statement.

9 out of 10 dentists have confirmed this.

. Sorry, I’m just being a nasty troll right now.

To each his/her own.

 

[Bigdaddy]

This drives me up a wall. That's just a subjective opinion, not a objective factual statement. I can say that ST is the most awesome film series ever made, all the live long day, and that doesn't make it true.

And if I'm completely honest here, I'm little tired of the whole 'its okay to like it, but it's bad.' Or the 'its okay to like it but you have to admit it's bad.'(haven't gotten that one said to me yet, here, thankfully) I mean let's turn this around. I can say that it's okay to dislike the ST, but it's awesome. Does that make me right? Nope.

Sorry, just had to vent.

You don't have to admit something's bad or apologize for liking it. Nor should you be driven up the wall because some disagrees with your own subjective opinion.
I think Halloween (the film) is hot garbage but that's just my opinion. There are lots of reasons I hold that opinion based on the actual film making but it doesn't make it factual and I'm quite certain many people disagree with my assessment.
Come on, no reason to be butt hurt about an opinion on movies.

 

[Joek3rr]

You don't have to admit something's bad or apologize for liking it. Nor should you be driven up the wall because some disagrees with your own subjective opinion.
I think Halloween (the film) is hot garbage but that's just my opinion. There are lots of reasons I hold that opinion based on the actual film making but it doesn't make it factual and I'm quite certain many people disagree with my assessment.
Come on, no reason to be butt hurt about an opinion on movies.

Totally agree. And I'm sure that wasn't Psab's intention. But good golly do I hear that, a lot other places.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Nor should you be driven up the wall because some disagrees with your own subjective opinion.

No, the problem is when people try to shove their subjective opinion down your throat proclaiming it is an objective opinion.

 

[Psab keel]

Where did I ever say it was objective opinion? An opinion by its very nature IS subjective otherwise it would be a fact.

 

[harrisonp]

Where did I ever say it was objective opinion? An opinion by its very nature IS subjective otherwise it would be a fact.

“But to get us back on topic the ST sucks royally”

That’s a pretty definitive statement that could be read with objective intent, but that’s the downfall of communication through text. Your “room for everyone” is the most important point to me though, and is something I agree with fully.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Where did I ever say it was objective opinion?

IT’S

NOT

ALWAYS

ABOUT

YOU!

Sheesh!

 

[Bigdaddy]

Nobody is shoving opinions down anyone's throat, just voicing an opinion isn't forcing it on somebody.

Now, open wide...the OT is awesome!

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

“But to get us back on topic the ST sucks royally”

That’s a pretty definitive statement that could be read with objective intent, but that’s the downfall of communication through text. Your “room for everyone” is the most important point to me though, and is something I agree with fully.

Exactly.

By no means do I feel the ST sucks. I enjoy it even If I do list it a last on my list of Star Wars trilogies. In fact, I am going to watch TROS this weekend.

 

[Psab keel]

I just didn't feel like adding the phrases, in my opinion, from my perspective, or the like. Not to mention my statement about sucking royally was meant in jest.

IT’S

NOT

ALWAYS

ABOUT

YOU!

Sheesh!

Never implied it was. You're the one who keeps suggesting that.

 

[harrisonp]

Now that you bring up listing the trilogies we have to post our personal ranking of the live action movies

Mine as of a couple days ago was

ESB
ANH
ROTJ
R1
TLJ
SOLO
TPM
TFA
ROTS
TROS
AOTC

*I acknowledge that TFA is IMO a better movie than TPM I’m just mad at it right now

 

[Joek3rr]

Now that you bring up listing the trilogies we have to post our personal ranking of the live action movies

Mine as of a couple days ago was

ESB
ANH
ROTJ
R1
TLJ
SOLO
TPM
TFA
ROTS
TROS
AOTC

*I acknowledge that TFA is IMO a better movie than TPM I’m just mad at it right now

I can never list out all the films, so I break them down by trilogies.

ANH (always my favorite)
ESB (better film then ANH, but just looses because of nostalgia)
ROTJ(worst if the OT, but still an epic conclusion to the middle chapter)

TPM (the best of the PT, Duel of the Fates, Mail, Ben Burt and the Podrace really make this one stand out)
ROTS (a close second for me, sometimes swapping with TPM, a very tragic film)
ATOC(the worst of the PT, nevertheless it has its place. Anakin's rage against the Sand People always gives me chills)

TLJ (hands down the best, does everything better, from what the OT did, and the deconstructing that the PT *tried* to do)
TFA (an absolute rousing intro to the Sequels. Bit of old, bit of new...love it.
TROS(the worst of the Sequels, but the more I look at the more there is to love)

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

If you were to ask me 5 years ago, to rank the existing 6 movies. I would have had The Phantom Menace as last place (6of6), with the first three making up the original trilogy. But over the last few years I have gained a new appreciation for The Phantom Menace. If reranking just those six movies, I would actually list it as third (3of6) right ahead of Return of the Jedi.

IMHO, I think a lot of the fan issues with The Phantom Menace and the prequel in general is that it a different type of story being told. The original trilogy is a very simple story much like a old western or WW2 epic. You can dive right into the story an know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. It does not require a lot of understanding of outward elements. In simple terms, its a classic war film.

If you go into the PT expecting another classic war film, you are going to be disappointed. It common terms, it is political thriller. It has a lot of moving parts and the main action id against two factions that do not really fit a clear good guy or bad guy role as both sides are being manipulated by a third side.

One might say that this different type of story is why the PT is not Star Wars but I would argue that a Star Wars story is fluid and changing. Just as the American Dream has changes over the centuries. It means different things to different people at different times. And maybe one could argue that the problem with the ST is that it tries to force the story back to the type of story the original trilogy was rather than let it be a third type of story.

 

[harrisonp]

I’ll always stand by TPM being the best prequel even with “issues” like Jar Jar and the politics. It still keeps me engaged and I feel it has aged the best. I didn’t NEED to see baby Vader but I am less repulsed by Jake than Hayden’s outings in the next two. I think ROTS is overrated because it’s “dark and edgy” but is actually a pretty sloppy and ugly movie. AOTC is beyond redemption for me lol.

 

[sztriki]

I’ll always stand by TPM being the best prequel even with “issues” like Jar Jar and the politics. It still keeps me engaged and I feel it has aged the best. I didn’t NEED to see baby Vader but I am less repulsed by Jake than Hayden’s outings in the next two. I think ROTS is overrated because it’s “dark and edgy” but is actually a pretty sloppy and ugly movie. AOTC is beyond redemption for me lol.

Cannot agree more. I do think TPM is ridiculous but at least there were some sets and environments instead of 95% greenscren and it didn't take itself seriously whatsoever. AOTC is a godawful movie and ROTS is getting haemorrhoids trying to be adult material and failing miserably.
I don't think the problem with the prequels is the expectations, they're just badly made movies.

 

[harrisonp]

What’s funny is that the material within the prequels is some of my favorite stuff when it pops up outside of the movies themselves. It goes to show that the ideas were sound but the execution was lacking.

 

[sztriki]

What’s funny is that the material within the prequels is some of my favorite stuff when it pops up outside of the movies themselves. It goes to show that the ideas were sound but the execution was lacking.

I don't know...prequels as such are almost destined to fail, we all know how the story will end so...I mean you make movies that have twists and emotional heights but when you make prequels you kind of undermine them.
If you watch the 6 SW movie s
sequentially all the emotional climaxes and relationships that are revealed are already known so they are deflated.
If you watch them in release date order then the prequels fall flat in other bits like Vader's fall, or the Sidious=Palpatine reveal, and so on.
I wonder if the prequels could have been written in a way that the series can be watched sequentially and the OT still works. Maybe if it was about new set of characters who are just entangled in the war and not directly following the Anakin/Obi-wan duo...

 

[harrisonp]

Oh I was more meaning things like seeing Bail in Rogue One, or the context given by The Clone Wars. As written I don’t think only a change in director could have made the prequels fit with the OT. One thing I really hate is how short of a reign the Empire is portrayed as having, and how quickly people forget the Jedi. I don’t care about the apologetics of “there’s only XYZ amount of Jedi, not everyone knew them, Palpatine propaganda etc”.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Hey all of us who liked and defended the Prequels for 20 years had to take it so you have to sit there and TAKE IT!

I read almost all of the EU minus a lot of the comics, though I did read a few. I went into the Sequels (well first two anyway) with an open mind and I was really hoping they would actually be better than the books. My main, almost only complaint, was their complete mishandling of Luke as a character. I could accept a lot of the other things I didn't like, but that, to me, was the nail in the coffin.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

I don’t care about the apologetics of “there’s only XYZ amount of Jedi, not everyone knew them, Palpatine propaganda etc”.

So basically you don't care about valid reasons, you just want to believe what you want to believe. Ok, got it.

I don't know...prequels as such are almost destined to fail,

Ok, when are the destined to fail? 2025? 2030? What is your timeline.

Me, I think think they work great. As I said previously, The Phantom Menace at the top half of my Star Wars movie list. IMHO, the one issue I have is the Anakin/Padme romance. It's hard for me to believe Padme would be attracted to Anakin. I just don't feel Christian Hayden was directed properly. I think you could have told the same story without having him be so whiney and creepy. I guess Padme could be into guys who she thinks she can fix.

I also don't think the prequels suffer from knowing the end. We don't really know the complete ending just some elements. It's about the story and getting there. There are plenty of great movies that people like even though they are historical events, biographies, or remakes in which people have a preconceived notion about how it ends. Now I agree that you know the ending of the prequels is going to be dark and depressing but that doesn't make it a bad movie, but I can see how people might not feel as enthusiastic about it.