Lets talk all things Star Wars

Kovnyn said:
Han call it an all powerful energy field that controls his destiny... In sarcasm. He didn't believe in the Force.

People believe in all sorts of gods and prophesies but that doesn't mean any of it has any credibility, and all of it is open to personal interpretation. The same is true in our own reality. Not a single historical prophesy has come true, only decided to be right after the fact. The Force was called a religion, both in ANH and TLJ. Tarkin even goes so far as to call Vader a Jedi.

Again, the personal interpretations of the Force has its parallel in the personal interpretation of god in our reality. No one has been proven their beliefs as right. People say god controls all things, has a plan, yet people still have free will (and all of that is open to personal interpretation).


George Lucas has a different opinion, idea and explanation of what the Force is depending on the interview. At one point, it was an energy field, then it was microscopic organisms in the blood. In early renditions it was just religion. SW74 didn't have anyone using telekinesis. Lightsabers weren't special Jedi weapons, they were standard issue.

With all the contradictory ideas that encompass The Force, there is no one true answer.

The Catholic priest is no more right than the Muslim Imam, in terms of knowing the unknowable. By that token, the Jedi Masters are no more right than the Sith Lords. If the Force has a will, then the Jedi, Sith, and other force users are no more than an interfering party to said will, attempting to push their own chosen doctrine upon the masses.

I'd the Force was a conscious being, deity like, then the balance of the Force would be eliminating all who would interfere.


Just my own personal interpretation.
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
Kovnyn said:
Han call it an all powerful energy field that controls his destiny... In sarcasm. He didn't believe in the Force.

People believe in all sorts of gods and prophesies but that doesn't mean any of it has any credibility, and all of it is open to personal interpretation. The same is true in our own reality. Not a single historical prophesy has come true, only decided to be right after the fact, and there isn't even universal agreement on that.

The Force was called a religion, both in ANH and TLJ. Tarkin even goes so far as to call Vader a Jedi.

Again, the personal interpretations of the Force has its parallel in the personal interpretation of god in our reality. No one has proven their beliefs as right. People say god controls all things, has a plan, yet people still have free will (and all of that is open to personal interpretation).


George Lucas has a different opinion, idea and explanation of what the Force is depending on the interview. At one point, it was an energy field, then it was microscopic organisms in the blood. In early renditions it was just religion. SW74 didn't have anyone using telekinesis or special Force powers in any way. Lightsabers weren't special Jedi weapons, they were standard issue Imperial gear.

With all the contradictory ideas that encompass The Force, there is no one true answer.

The Catholic priest is no more right than the Muslim Imam, in terms of knowing the unknowable. By that token, the Jedi Masters are no more right than the Sith Lords. If the Force has a will, then the Jedi, Sith, and other force users are no more than an interfering party to said will, attempting to push their own chosen doctrine upon the masses.

I'd the Force was a conscious being, deity like, then the balance of the Force would be eliminating all who would interfere.


Just my own personal interpretation.
Click to expand...
I know of man who fulfilled over 300 prophesies in his life time.....but I shan't get into that here......

I think we can safely discount personal interpretations of the Force by the characters in the film. Why? Because they've all experienced the Force, they've felt it. They've heard the will of the Force speaking to them. "Nothing" doesn't speak to a person, unless they're tripping on death sticks. "Nothing" doesn't control a person's actions, like Obi-Wan says the Force does in ANH. Here's something else to think about. Luck. Every Force sensitive says there is not such thing as luck. Luck is byproduct of random happenstance. If there is no luck, then there is no random chance, then what's the opposite? Food for thought.

Just to clarify, George Lucas never said that the Force is midi-chlorians. Midi-chlorians is what connects the "crude matter" of the material world to the "luminous" of the Force.
 
Joek3rr said:
I know of man who fulfilled over 300 prophesies in his life time.....but I shan't get into that here......
Click to expand...

I'd be interested in that, if you don't mind sharing via PM.

I think we can safely discount personal interpretations of the Force by the characters in the film. Why? Because they've all experienced the Force, they've felt it. They've heard the will of the Force speaking to them. "Nothing" doesn't speak to a person, unless they're tripping on death sticks. "Nothing" doesn't control a person's actions, like Obi-Wan says the Force does in ANH. Here's something else to think about. Luck. Every Force sensitive says there is not such thing as luck. Luck is byproduct of random happenstance. If there is no luck, then there is no random chance, then what's the opposite? Food for thought.
Click to expand...

Personal experiences are the only way to interpret the Force. That or blind faith, like Luke. Peter Griffin said it best when Luke said "You don't believe in the Force, do you?" to which be replied, "oh you mean that thing you found out about five minutes ago?" Yeah, that's blind faith, without have any personal experience.

Personal interpretation is how you come by the Jedi Code or the Sith Code. It can easy be argued that neither code is correct. Who was the first Jedi, or the first Sith, to set their order in motion?

I didn't call the Force 'nothing' that was you. We can't possibly know what experience was had by an on screen fictional character with a fictional energy field. Obi Wan said what be said based on his own personal experience. What others call luck, he may call the will of the Force. But, essentially, it's still luck, especially for a non Force user. If one can tap into the force and direct it, is it done against the will of the Force, as the Sith believe, or in congruence with the force as Jedi believe? Was getting shot by your own troops and nearly wiping out the Jedi order was the will of the Force? No, it was the will of the Sith. They twisted the Force to their own goals, and eventually Palpatine paid for that act with his life. But not before his goal of ruling (most of) the Galaxy was met. He, like Plagueis, all the way back to Bane, never achieved immortality. Was his failure the will of the force?
We can talk all day about the Force being sentient, with a will, but clearly that will is not all powerful. Or maybe Palpatine was working within the will of the Force?

If it can obey your commands, as Obi Wan says, and if it can be forced to obey against its will, as the Sith believe, then it's not all powerful and its will is pointless.


If there is no random chance, then ALL is as the Force wills it and personal intent is meaningless. If everything is preordained by the will of the force with nothing being random, then the entire concept fall apart and it loses all mystery. Everything and everybody and every act is a slave to the Force.

As for prophesy, I call BS. To follow a prophesy that calls for the absolute destruction of your enemies is evil. Not even all the Jedi Counsel believed in the prophesy. And only a Sith deals in absolutes.

And clearly, prophesies can be misinterpreted. Anakin was the chosen one, but required Luke for the proper motivation to fulfill the prophecy. None of the Jedi who believed in the prophecy would have believed it if it was known that the Chosen One would bring balance to the force by destroying most of the Jedi and theaat remaining Sith.

Look at the prophesy of the Chosen One in Harry Potter. Voldemort had Neville Longbottoms family attacked as well, because Neville also fit the description spoken in the prophesy. The Potters were killed, the Longbottoms driven insane, all because of a possibility spoken of in a prophesy, by someone considered to be a charlatan.

Just to clarify, George Lucas never said that the Force is midi-chlorians. Midi-chlorians is what connects the "crude matter" of the material world to the "luminous" of the Force.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll give you that, but it is still a stupid concept. One that confused audiences and still makes no sense today. Why would an all knowing all powerful energy field require a symbiote to connect with what it's already penetrating and binding together? It felt like an unnecessary explanation then, and I feel that way twenty years later.
 
Last edited:
I always though the force was an energy field resulting of the billions of lifes populating the galaxy, more like a budhist concept of interconection, not a spiritual entity with its own will like the judeochristian and islamic god. Then there's the jedi and the sith with their schools of thought and prophecies and so on, but they are interpretations of a reality, with their flaws and all, that ultimately led to conflict (and a story to tell...)
Isn't there a church of jediism? In real life I mean, I read somewhere a lot of people declared themselves believers in the Force in an australian census. We could ask them! :D
 
Kovnyn said:
I'd be interested in that, if you don't mind sharing via PM.



Personal experiences are the only way to interpret the Force. That or blind faith, like Luke. Peter Griffin said it best when Luke said "You don't believe in the Force, do you?" to which be replied, "oh you mean that thing you found out about five minutes ago?" Yeah, that's blind faith, without have any personal experience.

Personal interpretation is how you come by the Jedi Code or the Sith Code. It can easy be argued that neither code is correct. Who was the first Jedi, or the first Sith, to set their order in motion?

I didn't call the Force 'nothing' that was you. We can't possibly know what experience was had by an on screen fictional character with a fictional energy field. Obi Wan said what be said based on his own personal experience. What others call luck, he may call the will of the Force. But, essentially, it's still luck, especially for a non Force user. If one can tap into the force and direct it, is it done against the will of the Force, as the Sith believe, or in congruence with the force as Jedi believe? Was getting shot by your own troops and nearly wiping out the Jedi order was the will of the Force? No, it was the will of the Sith. They twisted the Force to their own goals, and eventually Palpatine paid for that act with his life. But not before his goal of ruling (most of) the Galaxy was met. He, like Plagueis, all the way back to Bane, never achieved immortality. Was his failure the will of the force?
We can talk all day about the Force being sentient, with a will, but clearly that will is not all powerful. Or maybe Palpatine was working within the will of the Force?

If it can obey your commands, as Obi Wan says, and if it can be forced to obey against its will, as the Sith believe, then it's not all powerful and its will is pointless.


If there is no random chance, then ALL is as the Force wills it and personal intent is meaningless. If everything is preordained by the will of the force with nothing being random, then the entire concept fall apart and it loses all mystery. Everything and everybody and every act is a slave to the Force.

As for prophesy, I call BS. To follow a prophesy that calls for the absolute destruction of your enemies is evil. Not even all the Jedi Counsel believed in the prophesy. And only a Sith deals in absolutes.

And clearly, prophesies can be misinterpreted. Anakin was the chosen one, but required Luke for the proper motivation to fulfill the prophecy. None of the Jedi who believed in the prophecy would have believed it if it was known that the Chosen One would bring balance to the force by destroying most of the Jedi and theaat remaining Sith.

Look at the prophesy of the Chosen One in Harry Potter. Voldemort had Neville Longbottoms family attacked as well, because Neville also fit the description spoken in the prophesy. The Potters were killed, the Longbottoms driven insane, all because of a possibility spoken of in a prophesy, by someone considered to be a charlatan.



Ok, I'll give you that, but it is still a stupid concept. One that confused audiences and still makes no sense today. Why would an all knowing all powerful energy field require a symbiote to connect with what it's already penetrating and binding together? It felt like an unnecessary explanation then, and I feel that way twenty years later.
Click to expand...

Again here's some food for thought......

George Lucas kinda answerd some this when he said "it controls people yet we have free will". Think of it like a coin. One side of the coin is the Force is sovereign, it controls the entire galaxy. The other side of the coin is sentient beings have a free will. It's a paradox, two statements that completely opposite, yet both are true. That's how you have an all powerful Force that controls everything, yet "bad" things still happen. It's a hard concept to grasp, because we are mere mortal people bound by time. And this idea depends on an entity which is infinite and not bound by time, which the Force is.

Consider a couple of things. Recently in the first issue of the Age of the Republic comic. Qui-Gon let the Force guide him in a "blind" hyperspace jump. It took him to a planet where he was given some visions. Also consider how Rogue One made it canon that the reason the stormtroopers can't hit our heroes is because of the Force.
 
Axlotl said:
That's what it WAS.

Before the Dark Times... before the Prequels...
Click to expand...
I think you'll find that in the original trilogy too....
"Your destiny lies along a different path then mine."
"Your destiny lies with me, young Skywalker..."
"Fulfill your destiny...."

From the Merriam-Webster dictionary
Definition of destiny


1: something to which a person or thing is destined

2: a predetermined course of events often held to be an irresistible power or agency


Destiny, sometimes referred to as fate (from Latin fatum – destiny), is a predetermined course of events.

3 characters in the Original trilogy believe that there is some power or force that controls the events of the galaxy. Consistent with what we see in the Prequels.
 
Ok, enough about the Force balance stuff before someone starts bringing up SWIQ again.

In the trench run, why is Vader always tightening up his gun knobs?
 
Laspector said:
Ok, enough about the Force balance stuff before someone starts bringing up SWIQ again.

In the trench run, why is Vader always tightening up his gun knobs?
Click to expand...

Adjusting something on his sights? I notice Luke does that on his targeting computer as well.

Anyone have any reference books that says?
 
Laspector said:
Ok, enough about the Force balance stuff before someone starts bringing up SWIQ again.

In the trench run, why is Vader always tightening up his gun knobs?
Click to expand...
Here's from the TIE x1 Legends page on Wookieepedia

The target tracking system was also more sophisticated than the already formidable advanced targeting system on standard TIE craft, used to overcome the extremely powerful electronic jamming used by all combat craft to defeat target lock in battle. For best performance, the targeting system of the x1 required frequent adjustment in combat.
 
Fa5N.gif

MOAR POWAH
 
A repost from years ago for funzies:

In ROTJ, Wedge reaches up above him to throw a switch or something----but there is nothing but canopy just inches from his head. Not only is he reaching for nothing, his arm is crossing the plane to outside the ship.

star-wars6-movie-screencaps-com-14505-jpg.jpg
 
Joek3rr said:
I do believe you are incorrect. The prophecy does not say that the Chosen One will destroy the Dark Side and bring balance to the Force. The Prophecy does say that the Chosen One will destroy the SITH and bring balance to the Force. I don't where this idea that the Jedi want to destroy the Dark Side came from. "...It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!"
Click to expand...

I never said destroy the Dark Side, I said no Dark Side influence, which would be what the Sith make happen. There can be Dark Side users, even Sith still alive, but if they don't have control of the galaxy the Force is in balance according to the Jedi. When the Sith gain total control it's out of balance.


Treadwell said:
A repost from years ago for funzies:

In ROTJ, Wedge reaches up above him to throw a switch or something----but there is nothing but canopy just inches from his head. Not only is he reaching for nothing, his arm is crossing the plane to outside the ship.
Click to expand...

How many AT-ATs have you lassoed and how many Death Stars have you destroyed? :lol:
 

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.

Similar threads

janglesworthy
Star Wars Tales of The Empire D+ animated series
Replies
15
Views
684
Halliwax
Halliwax
Captain Dunsel
Colorado Members: The Empire Strikes Back In Concert!
Replies
3
Views
237
Rawktrooper
Rawktrooper
Prop Collector
The ark of the covenant has been found!
2 3
Replies
46
Views
2,616
JediMichael
JediMichael
gusw666
Looking for the exacto location of the the secret life of Walter Mitty Life Magazine cover
Replies
10
Views
717
drusselmeyer
drusselmeyer
Captain Dunsel
Pirates of the Caribbean 6?
2 3 4
Replies
65
Views
2,815
NakedMoleRat
NakedMoleRat
Back
Top