Lets talk all things Star Wars
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sztriki
Sr Member
Here’s a different one. Where was the thermal port located relative to the trench on the DS? For most of my life I assumed it was on the wall at the end of the trench and they had to fire the torpedoes straight into it like the bullseye of a darts board. However Luke’s shot kinda “fell” into it curved as opposed to a straight shot indicating that it was on the floor of the trench (relatively speaking). In which case I’m not sure how it is a great “shot”, it’s more like dropping bombs into it.
Joek3rr
Master Member
That's a good question. The briefing animation shows it on the bottom of trench. And the torpedoes having to make a sharp turn. And all the games I've played have it there as well. It doesn't make sense that the torpedoes would do that.(I think some assume Luke is using the Force?)
And during the the attack run, Wedge says "My scope shows the tower, but I can't see the exhaust port. Are you sure the computer can hit it?" That line has always made me go "huh?" What tower is he talking about? That never made sense.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
I honestly don’t know. I always assumed that the torpedoes were programmed to drop like a smart bullet. Like they had to launch a a particular distance but the aim had to be perfect.
I think a lot of the remarks about the computer not picking it up and too small for a computer was to stress had difficult a shot it was. And even harder to accomplish without a computer. It also makes sense that a torpedo could not curve the way it did or why even bother with such an attack. No one could possibly make it.
I also figure that the towers and other surface weapons offered more problems and they avoided most of them using the trench. Otherwise it would seem easier to run straight at it from above.
BipeFlyer
Well-Known Member
This is how I have always interpreted it.
The opening was at the bottom of the trench and the computer had to target that opening and direct the torpedoes Into it. The torpedoes did not operate on their own. The ship's computer kept track of the target, the torpedoes, the closing speed etc. Because they were going too fast the computer was unable to do the calculations correctly and quickly enough, that's where the force was used to direct the torpedoes to their target.
The opening was at the bottom of the trench and the computer had to target that opening and direct the torpedoes Into it. The torpedoes did not operate on their own. The ship's computer kept track of the target, the torpedoes, the closing speed etc. Because they were going too fast the computer was unable to do the calculations correctly and quickly enough, that's where the force was used to direct the torpedoes to their target.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
That sounds good too.
It's a JEDI prophecy. Whether they are right or not, THEY believe balance means no Dark Side influence.
Joek3rr
Master Member
I do believe you are incorrect. The prophecy does not say that the Chosen One will destroy the Dark Side and bring balance to the Force. The Prophecy does say that the Chosen One will destroy the SITH and bring balance to the Force. I don't where this idea that the Jedi want to destroy the Dark Side came from. "...It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!"
I heard someone say that George said the Dark Side is like a cancer, this is also incorrect. He said the SITH are like a cancer.
"One of the themes throughout the films is that the Sith lords, when they started out thousands of years ago, embraced the dark side. They were greedy and self-centered and they all wanted to take over, so they killed each other. Eventually, there was only one left, and that one took on an apprentice. And for thousands of years, the master would teach the apprentice, the master would die, the apprentice would then teach another apprentice, become the master, and so on. But there could never be any more than two of them, because if there were, they would try to get rid of the leader, which is exactly what Vader was trying to do, and that's exactly what the Emperor was trying to do. The Emperor was trying to get rid of Vader, and Vader was trying to get rid of the Emperor. And that is the antithesis of a symbiotic relationship, in which if you do that, you become cancer, and you eventually kill the host, and everything dies." - George Lucas (emphasis mine)
"the film is ultimately about the dark side and the light side, and those sides are designed around compassion and greed. And we all have those two sides of us, and that we have to make sure those two sides of us are in balance." - George Lucas
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Right. It’s saying the chosen one will do two things. Not that the first one will lead to the second one. Even Yoda warned that the prophecy may have been misinterpreted.
It does not say:
the Chosen One would bring about the destruction of the Sith which will lead to the restoration of balance in the force.
The two things the chosen one accomplished:
1. He destroyed the Sith. Sith are the ones knowingly using the dark side to achieve their own means. These practices are considered as evil.
2. Bring balance to the Force. He achieved this by destroying the established Jedi Order. The Jedi were unaware that they too were participating in dark side activities because they themselves were misusing their force powers. They were trying to achieve a better galaxy that was not a natural condition.
I know this whole line of thinking is hard for folks. Dark is not just about evil. It can be someone trying to do something good. If Robin hood were a Jedi, he can’t go around using the force to stealing from the rich just because they are rich and giving to the poor even though the masses would interpret that as a good thing. Any time the force is misused it is dark and causes imbalance. Now if the rich are rich because they stole or used power to take what was not rightfully theirs, then Jedi Robin can steal and return to achieve balance. But he can’t steal more or give more that was originally taken because that would be imbalance.
Balance = pure light
Imbalance = the induction of dark
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Joek3rr
Master Member
I see where you coming from. But I think George would disagree with you.
- "The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil." -George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999
- "In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything." -George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002
- "The idea of positive and negative, that there are two sides to an entity, a push and a pull, a yin and a yang, and the struggle between the two sides are issues of nature that I wanted to include in the film." -George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays
- "The Force has two sides - [Light and Dark]. It is not a[n inherently] malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope." -George Lucas, Times Magazine, 1980
- "I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars." -George Lucas, Times Magazine, 2002
Is it coincidence that the Fathers throne looks like a giant scales with images of the Son and Daughter on either side? Is it coincidence that the Chosen One is shown standing in the middle of Yin Yang?
Kovnyn
Sr Member
I've always felt that there is the Force, and there are the intentions of the Force Users. If the Force is just an energy field, that binds together the universe, does it have a conscious will to impact the things with which it interacts? Or is it the Force User who taps into the energy field to alter the universe?
There are more sects of Force Users than just the Jedi and Sith. Each has their own philosophy of how to use the force, dictating intent to their group as a whole.
If the Force were like a gun, most of the time, it would sit dormant and unused. But then someone comes along with intent, and that intent could be peaceful or it could be violent. It could be violent for peaceful reasons, or violent for malicious reasons. The gun doesn't decide how, when or where it's used, nor does it decide the outcome of its use. I see the Force in the same way, it is there, dormant and unused for the majority of the time and for the majority of the people. The Jedi use it for peace and defense (even if the defensive use is violent), the Sith use it to intimidate, and cause harm and take control. Two factions with two different philosophies using the same force, who are diametrically opposed to each other.
The Jedi, under the influence of the Sith, went against their philosophy. They went from being keepers of the peace to being soldiers, despite what Mace Windu said.
The Force exists despite the absense of Jedi and Sith. Maz alluded to the dark side as the origin of the First Order. Lor San-Teka alluded to Kylo Rens origin, as well. Without knowing if Snoke was a Sith, we can't be certain why Ben Solo became Kylo Ren.
If the Force is the natural way of the universe, then the Force is chaos.
There are more sects of Force Users than just the Jedi and Sith. Each has their own philosophy of how to use the force, dictating intent to their group as a whole.
If the Force were like a gun, most of the time, it would sit dormant and unused. But then someone comes along with intent, and that intent could be peaceful or it could be violent. It could be violent for peaceful reasons, or violent for malicious reasons. The gun doesn't decide how, when or where it's used, nor does it decide the outcome of its use. I see the Force in the same way, it is there, dormant and unused for the majority of the time and for the majority of the people. The Jedi use it for peace and defense (even if the defensive use is violent), the Sith use it to intimidate, and cause harm and take control. Two factions with two different philosophies using the same force, who are diametrically opposed to each other.
The Jedi, under the influence of the Sith, went against their philosophy. They went from being keepers of the peace to being soldiers, despite what Mace Windu said.
The Force exists despite the absense of Jedi and Sith. Maz alluded to the dark side as the origin of the First Order. Lor San-Teka alluded to Kylo Rens origin, as well. Without knowing if Snoke was a Sith, we can't be certain why Ben Solo became Kylo Ren.
If the Force is the natural way of the universe, then the Force is chaos.
Joek3rr
Master Member
The Force has some sort of conscious will. Han calls it an all powerful Force that controls everything. Obi-Wan, Han, Vader, and the Emperor both speak of destiny. Destiny infers that there is a power that is, dare I say, deity-esque. And controls the events of the galaxy. In the Prequels Qui-Gon speaks of the will of the Force. And we are introduced to a prophecy and the Chosen One. To have a Chosen you kinda need something that chooses. And in Rogue One Chirrut says "All is as the Force wills it." And George Lucas said that the Force controls individuals yet they have free will. So I think there is strong argument for the Force having a conscious will.
Kovnyn
Sr Member
Han call it an all powerful energy field that controls his destiny... In sarcasm. He didn't believe in the Force.
People believe in all sorts of gods and prophesies but that doesn't mean any of it has any credibility, and all of it is open to personal interpretation. The same is true in our own reality. Not a single historical prophesy has come true, only decided to be right after the fact, and there isn't even universal agreement on that.
The Force was called a religion, both in ANH and TLJ. Tarkin even goes so far as to call Vader a Jedi.
Again, the personal interpretations of the Force has its parallel in the personal interpretation of god in our reality. No one has proven their beliefs as right. People say god controls all things, has a plan, yet people still have free will (and all of that is open to personal interpretation).
George Lucas has a different opinion, idea and explanation of what the Force is depending on the interview. At one point, it was an energy field, then it was microscopic organisms in the blood. In early renditions it was just religion. SW74 didn't have anyone using telekinesis or special Force powers in any way. Lightsabers weren't special Jedi weapons, they were standard issue Imperial gear.
With all the contradictory ideas that encompass The Force, there is no one true answer.
The Catholic priest is no more right than the Muslim Imam, in terms of knowing the unknowable. By that token, the Jedi Masters are no more right than the Sith Lords. If the Force has a will, then the Jedi, Sith, and other force users are no more than an interfering party to said will, attempting to push their own chosen doctrine upon the masses.
I'd the Force was a conscious being, deity like, then the balance of the Force would be eliminating all who would interfere.
Just my own personal interpretation.
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