Lets talk all things Star Wars

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I'm not against new SW, I did like the Prequels despite their flaws, I liked Rogue One, and I thought SOLO was decent. I'm against The Last Jedi and what they did to Luke. That's my only complaint. So yeah after seeing that I'm against any new SW post ROTJ. I might watch The Mandalorian if it's good, but otherwise I'm staying away from new post ROTJ stuff and sticking with the old EU for some good post ROTJ SW.

 

[Joek3rr]

I'm not against new SW, I did like the Prequels despite their flaws, I liked Rogue One, and I thought SOLO was decent. I'm against The Last Jedi and what they did to Luke. That's my only complaint. So yeah after seeing that I'm against any new SW post ROTJ. I might watch The Mandalorian if it's good, but otherwise I'm staying away from new post ROTJ stuff and sticking with the old EU for some good post ROTJ SW.

Then you should be against TFA. That's the film were it was introduced to us that Luke was in exile. Not TLJ.

 

[Joek3rr]

So does anyone have any custom Star Wars designs? Lightsabers, blasters, armor, characters? Anything of that sort?

I've done a few sketches here and there. My favorite is my concept for a chest right for a Stormtrooper.

After TFA came out, and I saw the tactical chest rigs that the FO Stormtroopers had. I thought the OT troopers needed something similar. So I took two MP40 pouches and slapped them on the front of the trooper.

 

[Frogfreak]

Very nice!

 

[ThreadSketch]

Then you should be against TFA. That's the film were it was introduced to us that Luke was in exile. Not TLJ.

I think the notion of Luke being in exile was slightly (YMMV) more palatable when the details weren't yet laid out in TFA. There were a lot of different directions that could have gone before TLJ. In-between the films I saw a lot of speculation (and fic writing!) wherein Luke's "exile" could have been more of a journey of reflection, self-discovery, or just seeking out the origins of the Jedi in hopes of finding a way to save Ben and the fledgling new Jedi Order after its second destruction, etc. etc. In other words, there was still some hope there that there was more of a purpose or less of a depressing reason for him to just be in a pit of grumptastic, nihilistic despair. When that became apparent in TLJ, the exile idea soured on a lot of fans.

 

[Psab keel]

Then you should be against TFA. That's the film were it was introduced to us that Luke was in exile. Not TLJ.

So does anyone have any custom Star Wars designs? Lightsabers, blasters, armor, characters? Anything of that sort?

I've done a few sketches here and there. My favorite is my concept for a chest right for a Stormtrooper.
View attachment 1046187

After TFA came out, and I saw the tactical chest rigs that the FO Stormtroopers had. I thought the OT troopers needed something similar. So I took two MP40 pouches and slapped them on the front of the trooper.

I was okay with TFA when I first saw it. Didn't love it, but far from hated it, but it would all depend on what came next. So while the failings of TLJ were not entirely on Rian Johnson, he certainly could have handled it better.

That is a fantastic piece of art by the way!

 

[Joek3rr]

I think the notion of Luke being in exile was slightly (YMMV) more palatable when the details weren't yet laid out in TFA. There were a lot of different directions that could have gone before TLJ. In-between the films I saw a lot of speculation (and fic writing!) wherein Luke's "exile" could have been more of a journey of reflection, self-discovery, or just seeking out the origins of the Jedi in hopes of finding a way to save Ben and the fledgling new Jedi Order after its second destruction, etc. etc. In other words, there was still some hope there that there was more of a purpose or less of a depressing reason for him to just be in a pit of grumptastic, nihilistic despair. When that became apparent in TLJ, the exile idea soured on a lot of fans.

I used to think the same thing. But then I realized that 1) Luke didn’t tell a soul where he went and 2) didn't take his closest companion and friend, Artoo with him. That cuts down what he could have been up to, really fast.

Cause if he's on a journey of self discovery, or something, suddenly that makes Luke into an incredibly selfish person who is looking for some "me" time. And doesn't want to be bothered.

For me the best answer, which is what TLJ gave us. Which is Luke has realized that the war, death and destruction in the galaxy is cyclical. And so he's going to try and break that cycle. By doing the only thing he knows how. Doing the thing that Yoda tried to teach him in ESB. And the way he won in ROTJ...... which is to not fight.

 

[Psab keel]

I completely disagree with you. There were other ways to have dealt with Luke that would have been better in my opinion. But hey, it is what it is.

 

[Halliwax]

A lot of trouble makers up late tonight I see

 

[ThreadSketch]

I used to think the same thing. But then I realized that 1) Luke didn’t tell a soul where he went and 2) didn't take his closest companion and friend, Artoo with him. That cuts down what he could have been up to, really fast.

Lol, the thing that gets me about this is...he still left a map behind. Even if it took a convoluted way of piecing it together and he obviously made it difficult for everyone...there was still a map. That's not exactly burning your bridges all the way. I think the Macguffin of the map is what made a lot of fans - at least in my circles - think that he'd left that as a breadcrumb trail for a reason, so that "when the time was right," someone (or a group of someones) would pursue and locate him to bring him out of exile, and he would have been waiting for it all along.

Cause if he's on a journey of self discovery, or something, suddenly that makes Luke into an incredibly selfish person who is looking for some "me" time. And doesn't want to be bothered.

What's hilarious for me is that even Legends EU did this - Black Fleet Crisis Luke pretty much did the same thing. Holed himself up in one of his dad's old castles - rebuilt by the Force lolz - so he could have some alone time to mope. He didn't even want to train his sister's kids. Of course it all got resolved by the end of the series. I have to continuously remind myself there's actually quite a lot of material in Legends that either inadvertently or perhaps deliberately got mined and remixed in a blender for Disney!canon. Legends EU was plenty questionable itself.

And, well...going into exile due to a sense of failure and bitterness was...also seemingly selfish. Either way he'd put himself out of reach of his family and comrades. They might have been more understanding if he'd done so for reasons that were ultimately intended to have some sort of purposeful outcome (meaning, even if they got upset at him vanishing at first, they'd forgive him later after finding out what happened).

Plus, when you're Luke Kriffing Skywalker...frankly, I think that level of crushing responsibility and incredible lifelong accomplishment deserves some "me time" if he felt like it. I didn't blow up a Death Star and save my evil dad and I know I deserve some "me time" on occasion too. We all do, amirite?

For me the best answer, which is what TLJ gave us. Which is Luke has realized that the war, death and destruction in the galaxy is cyclical. And so he's going to try and break that cycle. By doing the only thing he knows how. Doing the thing that Yoda tried to teach him in ESB. And the way he won in ROTJ...... which is to not fight.

I might have been cool with that if he'd been less of a salty jerk about it.

I get that there's a time and a place to show a character being disillusioned and brought out of that despair; I know some people found Luke's arc in TLJ to be personally inspirational, and while I don't see that at all for myself, you do you boo-boo. But the degree of his bitterness rung way too harsh for the man we grew up seeing in the OT, and it stung even more when it became painfully clear that the OT characters were being dragged through the mud for the sake of having a new trilogy and a new conflict that didn't necessarily have to exist in the first place.

Luke was already broken in the OT. He was shattered but managed to hold himself together and pull through victoriously. Considering the crucible he'd already been through, we figured he could weather another deep personal tragedy with...a little more grace. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Joek3rr]

Lol, the thing that gets me about this is...he still left a map behind. Even if it took a convoluted way of piecing it together and he obviously made it difficult for everyone...there was still a map. That's not exactly burning your bridges all the way. I think the Macguffin of the map is what made a lot of fans - at least in my circles - think that he'd left that as a breadcrumb trail for a reason, so that "when the time was right," someone (or a group of someones) would pursue and locate him to bring him out of exile, and he would have been waiting for it all along.



What's hilarious for me is that even Legends EU did this - Black Fleet Crisis Luke pretty much did the same thing. Holed himself up in one of his dad's old castles - rebuilt by the Force lolz - so he could have some alone time to mope. He didn't even want to train his sister's kids. Of course it all got resolved by the end of the series. I have to continuously remind myself there's actually quite a lot of material in Legends that either inadvertently or perhaps deliberately got mined and remixed in a blender for Disney!canon. Legends EU was plenty questionable itself.

And, well...going into exile due to a sense of failure and bitterness was...also seemingly selfish. Either way he'd put himself out of reach of his family and comrades. They might have been more understanding if he'd done so for reasons that were ultimately intended to have some sort of purposeful outcome (meaning, even if they got upset at him vanishing at first, they'd forgive him later after finding out what happened).

Plus, when you're Luke Kriffing Skywalker...frankly, I think that level of crushing responsibility and incredible lifelong accomplishment deserves some "me time" if he felt like it. I didn't blow up a Death Star and save my evil dad and I know I deserve some "me time" on occasion too. We all do, amirite?



I might have been cool with that if he'd been less of a salty jerk about it.

I get that there's a time and a place to show a character being disillusioned and brought out of that despair; I know some people found Luke's arc in TLJ to be personally inspirational, and while I don't see that at all for myself, you do you boo-boo. But the degree of his bitterness rung way too harsh for the man we grew up seeing in the OT, and it stung even more when it became painfully clear that the OT characters were being dragged through the mud for the sake of having a new trilogy and a new conflict that didn't necessarily have to exist in the first place.

Luke was already broken in the OT. He was shattered but managed to hold himself together and pull through victoriously. Considering the crucible he'd already been through, we figured he could weather another deep personal tragedy with...a little more grace. I'll leave it at that.

Common misconception. Luke left no map. R2 got his on DS1, and Luke had no idea he had it in him. Heck R2 didn't know until the events of TFA. And Lor San Tekka dug his up elsewhere, Luke didn't know about any if those.

EDIT- don't trust the Wookieepedia page about the map, someone is purposely making inaccurate. I've even edited it to be correct. But they've changed it back....

I attribute his bitterness with his failure and guilt. But also he's torn between wanting to help his friends. But if he does, he might be able to help them, but he would be pouring fuel on the fire and perpetuating the cycle. A cycle he desperately wants to quite. The novel details that the moment Luke reconnects with the Force and sense his sister condition, he decides he's going to come back.

 

[Psab keel]

That cycle clearly continues without Luke though so having him removed from the conflict hasn't made any difference really has it? Rey came along and Kylo is still in power, so what good did Luke's exile really do? Sure he telephones himself to Crait to distract Kylo so the resistance can escape, though how Luke knows they will have a means of escape is beyond me.

Luke is trying to "break the cycle" and yet the conflict exists without his involvement at all. In fact Kylo is still angry with him by the end of 8 so I'd say Luke has failed to either turn Ben back to the light or defeat him altogether. If anything Ben is even more angry than he was before and probably further resolved to wiping out the resistance than he ever was. Now things seem worse and Luke just made them worse by leaving a mess for Rey to clean up.

The fact that Rey came along out of nowhere is further evidence that whether Luke was somehow tied to the conflict, the conflict would exist without him, so his involvement seems negligible really. The ideas introduced in this installment feels like circular logic and nothing is really resolved by the end.

 

[sztriki]

I think my main issue is at basic story-telling level. No matter how much Rian Johnson explained Luke’s mindset on twitter and interviews it’s blatantly obvious from the start as Psab Keel said that he is wrong. He thinks removing himself from the equation will help, even though apparently he wants to spring back to action. It’s clear to audience and characters alike from the get go that he’s wrong. And after 2 hours of this wheelspinning Yoda shows up, gives a basic pep talk and Luke’s like “oh yea, okay”. The new characters have absolutely no effect on him changing his mind, according to RJ he wanted to burn that tree anyway (until he was freaked out that it was burning). There was no real realization, effect...His coming around is horribly anticlimactic and removed from eve
I had a horrible employee once who whenever he was questioned or made a mistake (which we all do) would get super defensive and wouldn’t budge. He once had the entire team yelling at him “no dude, you’re wrong, THIS is what the policy says” and he was just not listening. Luke is this for 2 hours without any really satisfying payoff. Had it been a more skilled writer they may have been able to pull it off that it at least keeps the viewer on their toes and think “actually he may have a point here”. But it’s crystal clear that he doesn’t, he even contradicts himself with the third lesson where he basically urged Rey to help and not follow the stoic Jedi way. Okay pops, what keeps you then?
The climax of ROTJ was good because everyone was telling Luke that he was wrong and he proved everyone else wrong by turning Vader. In TLJ everyone tells Luke he’s wrong and after 2 hrs of grumping he realized that he was wrong.


Different note, any further sketches or drawings you may have Joek3rr? I really like that trooper.

 

[Joek3rr]

That cycle clearly continues without Luke though so having him removed from the conflict hasn't made any difference really has it? Rey came along and Kylo is still in power, so what good did Luke's exile really do? Sure he telephones himself to Crait to distract Kylo so the resistance can escape, though how Luke knows they will have a means of escape is beyond me.

Luke is trying to "break the cycle" and yet the conflict exists without his involvement at all. In fact Kylo is still angry with him by the end of 8 so I'd say Luke has failed to either turn Ben back to the light or defeat him altogether. If anything Ben is even more angry than he was before and probably further resolved to wiping out the resistance than he ever was. Now things seem worse and Luke just made them worse by leaving a mess for Rey to clean up.

The fact that Rey came along out of nowhere is further evidence that whether Luke was somehow tied to the conflict, the conflict would exist without him, so his involvement seems negligible really. The ideas introduced in this installment feels like circular logic and nothing is really resolved by the end.

I suggest that Luke has broke the cycle. His removal of himself from the equation has brought about Rey. Rey and Ben are the embodiments of Light Side and the Dark Side respectively. If those two come together, bringing the Light and the Dark together. They will effectively end all that war, death and destruction.

I find it interesting, now that Luke has returned, Palpatine looks to be back, and now we have Sith Troopers.....it looks like Luke's fear that if he and Jedi returned... everything would escalate.....wasn't completely unfounded.

 

[Joek3rr]

I think my main issue is at basic story-telling level. No matter how much Rian Johnson explained Luke’s mindset on twitter and interviews it’s blatantly obvious from the start as Psab Keel said that he is wrong. He thinks removing himself from the equation will help, even though apparently he wants to spring back to action. It’s clear to audience and characters alike from the get go that he’s wrong. And after 2 hours of this wheelspinning Yoda shows up, gives a basic pep talk and Luke’s like “oh yea, okay”. The new characters have absolutely no effect on him changing his mind, according to RJ he wanted to burn that tree anyway (until he was freaked out that it was burning). There was no real realization, effect...His coming around is horribly anticlimactic and removed from eve
I had a horrible employee once who whenever he was questioned or made a mistake (which we all do) would get super defensive and wouldn’t budge. He once had the entire team yelling at him “no dude, you’re wrong, THIS is what the policy says” and he was just not listening. Luke is this for 2 hours without any really satisfying payoff. Had it been a more skilled writer they may have been able to pull it off that it at least keeps the viewer on their toes and think “actually he may have a point here”. But it’s crystal clear that he doesn’t, he even contradicts himself with the third lesson where he basically urged Rey to help and not follow the stoic Jedi way. Okay pops, what keeps you then?
The climax of ROTJ was good because everyone was telling Luke that he was wrong and he proved everyone else wrong by turning Vader. In TLJ everyone tells Luke he’s wrong and after 2 hrs of grumping he realized that he was wrong.


Different note, any further sketches or drawings you may have Joek3rr? I really like that trooper.

I don't see that he is completely wrong. The argument is, in a nut shell, is laid out for us. Luke says that the Jedi allowed Palpatine to come to power. And that it was Jedi who was responsible for the training of Darth Vader. In short the Jedi aren't exactly helping. Then on the other hand, you have Rey who quickly retorts with, that it was Jedi who redeemed Vader. So maybe the Jedi are helping.

What we see with Luke is, that like in original trilogy, he's focusing on the future at the expense of the moment. Not where he is, the need right in front of his nose. So maybe the Jedi need to end or need some major restructuring. But right now, Rey, Leia and the Resistance needs him to be the Luke Skywalker from those legends. Luke often gets lost in the what ifs of the future. When he was younger it's was 'gotta go help my friends right now!' Now that he's older he is cautious, not so eager to jump into the fight thinking he'll only make things worse down the road........and we'll he's not wrong. Palpatine is back, and now we have Sith troopers.



Well I'm on vacation. I don't have anything as refined as that Stormtrooper. I've got couple of like 60 second sketchs that need some refining.
One is of a droid

And the other is a helmet for new type of trooper.

I've got a few other things on paper that I'll show once I get home.

 

[sztriki]

If those two come together, bringing the Light and the Dark together. They will effectively end all that war, death and destruction.

Mmmm doubt until there’s money to be made from a franchise that has “war” in its title.

I find it interesting, now that Luke has returned, Palpatine looks to be back, and now we have Sith Troopers.....it looks like Luke's fear that if he and Jedi returned... everything would escalate.....wasn't completely unfounded.

Well there’s a lot of speculation there considering what we know of ep9 BUT suggest you’re right...so was Luke wrong then to leave his island and help the remaining 10 people of the Resistance escape?

 

[Psab keel]

I suggest that Luke has broke the cycle. His removal of himself from the equation has brought about Rey. Rey and Ben are the embodiments of Light Side and the Dark Side respectively. If those two come together, bringing the Light and the Dark together. They will effectively end all that war, death and destruction.

I find it interesting, now that Luke has returned, Palpatine looks to be back, and now we have Sith Troopers.....it looks like Luke's fear that if he and Jedi returned... everything would escalate.....wasn't completely unfounded.

Interesting take but I sincere doubt that is how J.J. sees the story at all. I think you think things through to find patterns and structure where there is none. I admire your wish to find a cohesive story but I think you're grasping at straws. J.J. is just thinking of how to entertain people and not so much concerned with how he accomplishes it much less making it all wrap up concisely.

The other question is why are Rey and Kylo able to bring about the end of the conflict once and for all and Luke and Vader weren't? Is it because they are embodiments of the force as you suggest (not that they ever mention Kylo being the fulfillment of any prophecy or anything) or is it because the writers had to give them a significance so great that it would justify closing out the entire Skywalker story, whether it made total sense or not?

I suggest it's the latter.

 

[sztriki]

Well I'm on vacation. I don't have anything as refined as that Stormtrooper. I've got couple of like 60 second sketchs that need some refining.
One is of a droid
View attachment 1046240

And the other is a helmet for new type of trooper.
View attachment 1046241

I've got a few other things on paper that I'll show once I get home.

Neat! I dig these, let’s stick to this as a discussion!

 

[Joek3rr]

Interesting take but I sincere doubt that is how J.J. sees the story at all. I think you think things through to find patterns and structure where there is none. I admire your wish to find a cohesive story but I think you're grasping at straws. J.J. is just thinking of how to entertain people and not so much concerned with how he accomplishes it much less making it all wrap up concisely.

The other question is why are Rey and Kylo able to bring about the end of the conflict once and for all and Luke and Vader weren't? Is it because they are embodiments of the force as you suggest (not that they ever mention Kylo being the fulfillment of any prophecy or anything) or is it because the writers had to give them a significance so great that it would justify closing out the entire Skywalker story, whether it made total sense or not?

I suggest it's the latter.

I don't know. JJ did say that the direction that Rian went was very much the same way that JJ and Lawrence were thinking. But we won't know until TROS.

Why are they able? Cause Luke and Anakin are father and son. Rey and Ben are male and female. They can metaphorically come together and become one person. It's the literal joining of the Light and Dark.

 

[Joek3rr]

Neat! I dig these, let’s stick to this as a discussion!

I agree.

Anyone else have stuff? Maybe things you've built?