GL is just really eccentric. And he's a veteran creative artist. They tend to get really into certain things and neglectful of others. Their priorities get way out of whack.

I guess it's not so different from all people as they get older. But with artists it's more obvious.

The world doesn't comment about it when the average person gets eccentric like this. Take your crazy Vietnam-vet uncle, for example. He might have dabbled in Pacifism at one time. And he might know all about the tenets of national Socialism. But he still can't even go bowling for an hour without pulling a gun on somebody.

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GL is just really eccentric. And he's a veteran creative artist. They tend to get really into certain things and neglectful of others. Their priorities get way out of whack.

I guess it's not so different from all people as they get older. But with artists it's more obvious.

The world doesn't comment about it when the average person gets eccentric like this. Take your crazy Vietnam-vet uncle, for example. He might have dabbled in Pacifism at one time. And he might know all about the tenets of national Socialism. But he still can't even go bowling for an hour without pulling a gun on someb

this-evening-youhave-won꺄-internet-mgfip-com-you-win-50169037~2.png
 
Another view to take about George and Star Wars is what we ended up with in the original movie was whittled down from a much larger concept and story. Undoubtedly Lucas has so much of that original story still rattling around in his brain, I'm sure its hard for him to focus.

From the little tidbits of his original epic we've been given over the years, ANH pales in comparison and I can see why he's been so obsessed with changing and improving upon it. He definitely compromises to get it made. Lose the small fight to win the bigger battle.

He knows what he's doing.
 
To me, the Prequels always felt like George never bothered rewatching the OT, re-read the scripts, his notes, etc, and relied solely on his memory. It seemed like he got cocky and/or arrogant about it and went in with the attitude that he didn't need to review anything that he did with making the OT. He created Star Wars and nobody else on Earth knew more or better about what Star Wars was back then than he. So he went into the Prequels without any research and basing it all on his recollections and memories, probably confusing a lot of what he thought he did with what he really wanted to do or thought he should have done instead.
 
Maybe I'm in the minority, but maybe the Prequels are the story GL wanted to tell? That's the story. If you don't like it fine, but in the SW universe, that's how those events went down. I'll totally give you the cringey dialogue (which the OT had as well, people seem to ignore) and Jar Jar is a little annoying, but otherwise I'm fine with it and generally liked them.
 
To me, the Prequels always felt like George never bothered rewatching the OT, re-read the scripts, his notes, etc, and relied solely on his memory. It seemed like he got cocky and/or arrogant about it and went in with the attitude that he didn't need to review anything that he did with making the OT. He created Star Wars and nobody else on Earth knew more or better about what Star Wars was back then than he. So he went into the Prequels without any research and basing it all on his recollections and memories, probably confusing a lot of what he thought he did with what he really wanted to do or thought he should have done instead.
I think the thing to remember is George's "vision" of Star Wars is constantly changing, morphing, evolving. But then again that could be said of any author and their fictional universe. Take Tolkien for instance, world Arda was always changing. I just finished reading Beren and Lúthien. Just seeing how that story changes is quite something, particularly since it has major ramifications on the ancestry of major players later on.
 
batguy said:
GL is just really eccentric. And he's a veteran creative artist. They tend to get really into certain things and neglectful of others. Their priorities get way out of whack.

I guess it's not so different from all people as they get older. But with artists it's more obvious.

The world doesn't comment about it when the average person gets eccentric like this. Take your crazy Vietnam-vet uncle, for example. He might have dabbled in Pacifism at one time. And he might know all about the tenets of national Socialism. But he still can't even go bowling for an hour without pulling a gun on someb

EA%BA%84-internet-mgfip-com-you-win-50169037-2-png.png


Hahaha . . . thanks.

(But, in fairness to the crazy uncle - it was a league game.)

----------------------------------------------------

Lucas and the OT -

He must have watched a fair amount of the OT right before the prequels because he had just done the special edition releases.

The guy's whole career has been motivated by trying to keep creative control over his work. THX and Graffiti were both re-cut by the studios against his will and it was a defining thing for him. With SW he demanded full creative control and he made other paycheck sacrifices to get it.

Then a few decades later, the fans come along and start telling HIM how he should be making HIS star wars movies . . . way to step on Lucas's hottest nerve. It's not surprising that he kept diddling with the OT in subsequent releases. He didn't like anyone telling him not to.


I'm amazed Lucas ever sold SW to Disney like he did. I guess he figured he wasn't gonna live forever, and if he sold it while he was still around then he would be able to exercise at least some control over the foreseeable future with it. At least it didn't end up with a sequel series done by Michael Bay. (Go ahead and laugh, but why couldn't that have happened? Bay's track record with old toy-selling shows is consistent.)
 
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With Lucas it seems like his accounts of motivations/his vision for SW change as time passes based on what's best for the moment. I''m much more inclined to trust what much younger Lucas had to say about his motivations and ideas for SW. The closer to filming the more accurate his accounts are going to be.
 
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George Lucas is clearly obsessed with his creation and is one of those artists who simply can't let go, which is a shame because all his tinkering only erodes the credibility of his story. What other director in film history has done more alterations to their early movies than him? I don't know that I've ever seen another creative more hellbent on historic revisionism.

I think his largest achievements are to film advancements and film technology more than Star Wars or Indiana Jones. Those I think are his true legacy as a film maker.
 
I think his largest achievements are to film advancements and film technology more than Star Wars or Indiana Jones. Those I think are his true legacy as a film maker.

The influence/legacy of ANH is hard to overstate.

The entire sci-fi genre was considered a financial dud before it. The box office of Kubrick's '2001' was considered the absolute ceiling for how much any sci-fi/space movie could ever possibly make. SW obliterated that.

Without ANH there would have probably been no Alien. No Alien probably means no 'The Thing' a couple years later, which influenced some other stuff too. And Ridley might never have gotten Blade Runner made without it. When you consider the ripples in the pond, even stuff like ET or Ghostbusters might have struggled harder to get funding without Star Wars. Those were all sci-fi or SFX-heavy movies in their time.

The whole "used space" look in ANH was different. It instantly became the norm, and has remained it for generations afterwards.

George Lucas was advised to give ANH some kind of electronic/disco soundtrack. (Hey, space = futuristic, right?) He bucked the trend and other shows followed.

See all those zillions of names in the credits of ANH? Compare that to the credits of Jaws two years earlier. Lucas helped turn that ship around, and get everyone listed.

It used to be common for kids to stay and watch a theater movie for a second time before ANH. The theaters started making sure the seats were empty for the next batch of people because it was so popular.

The studio gave Lucas the full merchandising rights to ANH because in the mid-1970s nobody saw any money in it. The SW merchandising demand outstripped everyone's expectations. A few years later the airwaves were full of hastily-invented TV franchises selling toys to the same kids. He-Man, Transformers, GI Joe, etc. That's influence.

And of course the Indy franchise would probably not have happened without Star Wars either. There's another set of big ripples in the pop-cultural pond. Pitfall the video game, which helped spur Tomb Raider and its imitators. Romancing the Stone, which was critical in allowing Zemeckis to make Back to the Future. The Mummy movies were blatant Indy shows. It goes on.

James Cameron said ANH made him get off his butt and start trying for a film career. More ripples. More stuff that wouldn't have happened at all, or would have taken longer to get funded, or would have never gotten as much funding, etc.
 
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What I'm suggesting is that as a director, George is far from the most prolific and he only has a few titles to his name. While I agree that Star Wars had an impact that can't be overstated, I think ultimately his contribution to film is better recognized as being his technical achievements that had far reaching implications than just the movies he made or had a hand in. It's clear that Star Wars was the benchmark, but again, looking at his work as a director or a producer isn't as impressive as viewing his innovation.

The man literally created entire industries for making movies better and giving artists tools to make the impossible, possible. No other person in modern film can even come close to that.
 
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I guess the creative impact vs the technical impact is two different conversations.

I agree that GL has done a ton of both. Pixar was started on his watch. IIRC he was the one who brewed up digital editing setups, and ended the era of literally cutting & taping frames together. Everyone knows about ILM and CGI but he's been responsible for a lot more.
 
What I'm suggesting is that as a director, George is far from the most prolific and he only has a few titles to his name. While I agree that Star Wars had an impact that can't be overstated, I think ultimately his contribution to film is better recognized as being his technical achievements that had far reaching implications than just the movies he made or had a hand in. It's clear that Star Wars was the benchmark, but again, looking at his work as a director or a producer isn't as impressive as viewing his innovation.

The man literally created entire industries for making movies better and giving artists tools to make the impossible, possible. No other person in modern film can even come close to that.
Yup. Lucas as a director isnt that great. He made some good films but he has clear limitations when compared to GOATs.

However, as a contributor to the film industry, he is near irreplaceable. ANH came out when sci-fi was a fools errand and although some people give Lucas **** for betting against his own movie, it was an insane risk.

Lucas changed not only film-making with his continuous innovations in film including Pixar (which he lost due to the divorce), he also took insane risks like taking control of financing for ESB. Although people praise Kershner and Kurtz for everything “ESB did right,” filming was overschedule and overbudget and Lucas essentially had to step in and cut things.

I wouldnt be surprised if Lucas’ true love was forwarding film technology to better achieve the film maker’s vision. It seems to be his true love and his talent, hence why he was able to contribute so much and inspire others.
 
Maybe I'm in the minority, but maybe the Prequels are the story GL wanted to tell? That's the story. If you don't like it fine, but in the SW universe, that's how those events went down. I'll totally give you the cringey dialogue (which the OT had as well, people seem to ignore) and Jar Jar is a little annoying, but otherwise I'm fine with it and generally liked them.

I think they're absolutely the story he wanted to tell. I still don't like that story, but I've come to really respect it for what it is. Say what you will, but the prequels are George's vision on the screen, and they present a specific point of view. Rise or fall, good or bad, they come from somewhere and from someone with a very specific vision. By comparison, the two JJ films (less so TLJ) feel like they were designed by committee. They tic boxes, they accomplish goals, they feel and look "Star Warsy," but they don't convey a specific vision the way the PT does. They feel disjointed, I think, in large part because of how Abrams approaches storytelling, and I say that not simply because of the JJ Wars films, but moreso because of the JJ Trek films. But that's a whole other discussion.

Regardless, to me, the PT feels distinctive, even if it's got a bunch of stuff I don't like. And given how much I enjoy the Clone Wars cartoon and its progeny, it clearly created a rich, deep backdrop for other stories. For those reasons, I've come to respect the PT, even though I don't really enjoy the PT.

Yup. Lucas as a director isnt that great. He made some good films but he has clear limitations when compared to GOATs.

However, as a contributor to the film industry, he is near irreplaceable. ANH came out when sci-fi was a fools errand and although some people give Lucas **** for betting against his own movie, it was an insane risk.

Lucas changed not only film-making with his continuous innovations in film including Pixar (which he lost due to the divorce), he also took insane risks like taking control of financing for ESB. Although people praise Kershner and Kurtz for everything “ESB did right,” filming was overschedule and overbudget and Lucas essentially had to step in and cut things.

I wouldnt be surprised if Lucas’ true love was forwarding film technology to better achieve the film maker’s vision. It seems to be his true love and his talent, hence why he was able to contribute so much and inspire others.
I've said this before elsewhere, but it bears repeating:

I think at his core, Lucas is an "idea man." He comes up with tons and tons of ideas.

Out of 10 ideas he comes up with:

- 5 are total garbage. Just unmitigated crap.
- 3 are...you know, pretty good, but need some work.
- 2 are mind-blowing genius that no one else could ever in a million years come up with.

With the OT, what we got was the latter half of that list, with most of the 3 pretty good ideas massaged into something really great thanks to folks like Marcia Lucas and Gary Kurtz. Those people, and others, were around to tell George "No, that's a really stupid idea and we aren't doing that" to the first 5 ideas he came up with that were dog****. The thing is, we didn't realize it at the time because the myth of Lucas-as-auteur of this space opera had become cemented, and folks believed that the films were just the sum total of the ideas in his head, rather than the pared-down, refocused best of what he could come up with.

With the PT...we got all 10 ideas on the screen at once. There's stuff in the PT that, as we all know, is garbage. Just flat out garbage. There's other stuff that could've been amazing, but was only ok-ish. And there's stuff in the PT that is just amazing. Really terrific stuff. It's all up there on screen, unfiltered, for us to see.

If you want to see proof of this, check out the Dark Horse Comics print of "The Star Wars." I believe it was based on one of the early scripts or screenplays that Lucas wrote. It's really wild to consider "what might've been" and to see the germ of ideas that he came up with. It's also kinda bonkers to look at, and is very much all over the place. BUT it perfectly exemplifies my notion of the "10 ideas" thing. There's genius stuff in there, and there's really dumb stuff. And there's stuff that's in between which clearly got massaged into what became ANH and other bits of the OT.


Lastly, with respect to Lucas' comments and ideas after the OT, I think the bottom line is that Lucas had his own vision of what Star Wars was, and it was what was in his head, not what was up on screen. So, yeah, the PT is different and he ditched this or that aspect of what he said in the OT era, because the story in his head had changed, or he decided he liked an aspect better. And his entire effort with Star Wars was to bring that idea to life somehow. I think it must've been immensely frustrating for him to keep trying to play with the OT to make it into what he wanted to be when that was basically impossible now. It'd never be that, no matter how much he tinkered. In a way, I expect it must be almost a relief to have sold the whole shebang to Disney. Now it's out of his hands and it's someone else's to handle. He's still clearly got ideas about what to do, but it's not his circus and not his monkeys anymore.
 
I think they're absolutely the story he wanted to tell. I still don't like that story, but I've come to really respect it for what it is. Say what you will, but the prequels are George's vision on the screen, and they present a specific point of view. Rise or fall, good or bad, they come from somewhere and from someone with a very specific vision. By comparison, the two JJ films (less so TLJ) feel like they were designed by committee. They tic boxes, they accomplish goals, they feel and look "Star Warsy," but they don't convey a specific vision the way the PT does. They feel disjointed, I think, in large part because of how Abrams approaches storytelling, and I say that not simply because of the JJ Wars films, but moreso because of the JJ Trek films. But that's a whole other discussion.

Regardless, to me, the PT feels distinctive, even if it's got a bunch of stuff I don't like. And given how much I enjoy the Clone Wars cartoon and its progeny, it clearly created a rich, deep backdrop for other stories. For those reasons, I've come to respect the PT, even though I don't really enjoy the PT.


I've said this before elsewhere, but it bears repeating:

I think at his core, Lucas is an "idea man." He comes up with tons and tons of ideas.

Out of 10 ideas he comes up with:

- 5 are total garbage. Just unmitigated crap.
- 3 are...you know, pretty good, but need some work.
- 2 are mind-blowing genius that no one else could ever in a million years come up with.

With the OT, what we got was the latter half of that list, with most of the 3 pretty good ideas massaged into something really great thanks to folks like Marcia Lucas and Gary Kurtz. Those people, and others, were around to tell George "No, that's a really stupid idea and we aren't doing that" to the first 5 ideas he came up with that were dog****. The thing is, we didn't realize it at the time because the myth of Lucas-as-auteur of this space opera had become cemented, and folks believed that the films were just the sum total of the ideas in his head, rather than the pared-down, refocused best of what he could come up with.

With the PT...we got all 10 ideas on the screen at once. There's stuff in the PT that, as we all know, is garbage. Just flat out garbage. There's other stuff that could've been amazing, but was only ok-ish. And there's stuff in the PT that is just amazing. Really terrific stuff. It's all up there on screen, unfiltered, for us to see.

If you want to see proof of this, check out the Dark Horse Comics print of "The Star Wars." I believe it was based on one of the early scripts or screenplays that Lucas wrote. It's really wild to consider "what might've been" and to see the germ of ideas that he came up with. It's also kinda bonkers to look at, and is very much all over the place. BUT it perfectly exemplifies my notion of the "10 ideas" thing. There's genius stuff in there, and there's really dumb stuff. And there's stuff that's in between which clearly got massaged into what became ANH and other bits of the OT.


Lastly, with respect to Lucas' comments and ideas after the OT, I think the bottom line is that Lucas had his own vision of what Star Wars was, and it was what was in his head, not what was up on screen. So, yeah, the PT is different and he ditched this or that aspect of what he said in the OT era, because the story in his head had changed, or he decided he liked an aspect better. And his entire effort with Star Wars was to bring that idea to life somehow. I think it must've been immensely frustrating for him to keep trying to play with the OT to make it into what he wanted to be when that was basically impossible now. It'd never be that, no matter how much he tinkered. In a way, I expect it must be almost a relief to have sold the whole shebang to Disney. Now it's out of his hands and it's someone else's to handle. He's still clearly got ideas about what to do, but it's not his circus and not his monkeys anymore.
The ideas thing is very true and to be fair to Lucas, every ideas man is going to be like this. No one has 100% good/great ideas and it probably is more of an 8-2 split of objectively bad to good before taking into account opinion that makes “good” even lower.

And to be fair to Lucas, i do think he recognized this weakness which is why he asked prominent directors like Spielberg to direct the prequels. In addition to their expertise in directing and dialogue which would have covered his own weaknesses, he would have a trusted talented individuals to bounce ideas off of. I do think we tend to think of the top creatives as “mythological geniuses” who came up with so-and-so invention completely on their own (Steve Jobs, John Lennon, etc) when in reality they did have people to bounce ideas off of.

i do think Lucas is still bittersweet about Star Wars. On the one hand, its not his problem anymore and he doesnt have to incur fan wrath for things they dont like and he ensures his employees and family still make money. On the other, Star Wars is his baby. It was what made his career and is still all him. Althoigh Indiana Jones is his other top IP, that one is arguably co-developed with Spielberg and is not “all Lucas” in that sense. Well, no meed to feel too sorry for him since he is still a cinematic legend with wealth that will last beyond his lifetime.
 

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