What the hell could they have done to it just shooting the SW ride???
Didn't the ships just fly around like normal?
Didn't the ships just fly around like normal?
ILM X-Wing Models: Timeline & Status
- Thread starter PHArchivist
- Start date
PHArchivist
Master Member
To quote Seargent Hulka, "Blowed up, sir!!
Actually, I don't think the original ILM models were used in Star Tours afterall...
Whenever I see those butt plates on the Star Tours X-Wings, I'm always instantly reminded of the more squared-off ERTL butt plates/models. But what do I know?
To quote Seargent Hulka, "Blowed up, sir!!
Actually, I don't think the original ILM models were used in Star Tours afterall...
Whenever I see those butt plates on the Star Tours X-Wings, I'm always instantly reminded of the more squared-off ERTL butt plates/models. But what do I know?
I just looked at the FX footage of Star Tours on youtube, no X-wings blowd'ed up I could see.
Assuming all the footage shot was used.
I wonder if there was an accident of some kind, something unrelated to filming.
Mike J.
Master Member
Well... If a hero X-wing was removed from the archives for filming for Star Tours, it could have been damaged around that time...
The safest place for any model would be inside a sturdy, temperature-light-humidity-atmosphere-controlled vault of some kind.
Since The Archives is not quite such a location, and the models may not have always been in them anyway since filming wrapped in 198-whatever until today, there are (unfortunately) almost limitless possibilities for damage to occur...
Damaged / repaired / cannibalized during Original Trilogy shooting.
Damaged immediately after OT shooting, when being stored / packed / crated / boxed / archived / gutted for parts.
Remember, damage also could have occurred any time the model was handled, for any purpose.
Were there special reference shots taken after ANH wrapped? After the X-Wings were already boxed? Say, for merchandising purposes? For press stills? Promo art? Scale model kit or toy manufacturing?
Damaged / repaired / cannibalized during handling / filming of TV specials or commercials?
Damaged / repaired / cannibalized during handling / filming of Star Tours?
Damaged / repaired / cannibalized during handling / photography for the Special Editions?
Damaged / repaired / cannibalized during handling / crating for, during or after off-site exhibitions?
Damaged / repaired / cannibalized during or after handling / shooting for special publications (Chronicles, From SW to IJ, Sculpting a Galaxy)?
And, perhaps most disturbing of all, damaged / repaired / cannibalized while stored? Perhaps a shelf collapsed, or a cardboard box failed, or something shifted or bent over time? Perhaps a staff member or guest got too close or brushed something? Perhaps glue or mechanical joints failed? Perhaps a leaky roof? An earthquake? Even a power failure could have unpleasant effects during a California summer.
I'm not saying these things to make wild accusations or damage reputations or impugn the conduct or skills of anyone. I'm just stating - for the purposes of general theorization - that there are a lot of possible ways that the models could have come to harm over a long period of time and some very long travels.
-Mike
The safest place for any model would be inside a sturdy, temperature-light-humidity-atmosphere-controlled vault of some kind.
Since The Archives is not quite such a location, and the models may not have always been in them anyway since filming wrapped in 198-whatever until today, there are (unfortunately) almost limitless possibilities for damage to occur...
Damaged / repaired / cannibalized during Original Trilogy shooting.
Damaged immediately after OT shooting, when being stored / packed / crated / boxed / archived / gutted for parts.
Remember, damage also could have occurred any time the model was handled, for any purpose.
Were there special reference shots taken after ANH wrapped? After the X-Wings were already boxed? Say, for merchandising purposes? For press stills? Promo art? Scale model kit or toy manufacturing?
Damaged / repaired / cannibalized during handling / filming of TV specials or commercials?
Damaged / repaired / cannibalized during handling / filming of Star Tours?
Damaged / repaired / cannibalized during handling / photography for the Special Editions?
Damaged / repaired / cannibalized during handling / crating for, during or after off-site exhibitions?
Damaged / repaired / cannibalized during or after handling / shooting for special publications (Chronicles, From SW to IJ, Sculpting a Galaxy)?
And, perhaps most disturbing of all, damaged / repaired / cannibalized while stored? Perhaps a shelf collapsed, or a cardboard box failed, or something shifted or bent over time? Perhaps a staff member or guest got too close or brushed something? Perhaps glue or mechanical joints failed? Perhaps a leaky roof? An earthquake? Even a power failure could have unpleasant effects during a California summer.
I'm not saying these things to make wild accusations or damage reputations or impugn the conduct or skills of anyone. I'm just stating - for the purposes of general theorization - that there are a lot of possible ways that the models could have come to harm over a long period of time and some very long travels.
-Mike
Don, I was told the Falcon/SE scan story by one of the Lucas people at the archives when MR was scanning it. It was either Laela, Dinah, or Chris (from licensing). I figured they knew what they were talking about, but it's been a few years, and I can't remember which one specifically threw out that info.
PHArchivist
Master Member
How strong are the fuselages?
If it was dropped or stepped on even.
What would happen?
If it was dropped or stepped on even.
What would happen?
artoo77
Well-Known Member
Laela, Dinah or Chris were not around during the Special Edition (I was) and no model was scanned. John Knoll personally photographed, built and textured the X-wings for the Special Edition. The only damage to the Falcon that I'm aware of is what the Smithsonian did to it during a traveling exhibit in the late 80's...they epoxied the mount into the bottom.
So it's not just at the archives where damage might occur...
--Don
If anyone was at WorldCon in '84, I wonder if Red 5 was at that small show. I know there was a snowspeeder, some other bits, a few matte paintings. It was a nice showing, I don't recall everything that was there though.
Regardless of 'how' though, the fact is that it's in its current shape. Alas...
Regardless of 'how' though, the fact is that it's in its current shape. Alas...
-... . .- --..
Sr Member
The two part resin foams of the day were fairly brittle. Current thinking is that the upper fuselage was this type of resin, and that the bottom was vacformed styrene, which itself gets increasingly brittle over time. Wings were constructed from acrylic sheet (plexiglas), primarily, and were considerably stronger than the fuselage. Which probably explains why all we have are wings after whatever happened to her.
True. And quite sad to consider that its current condition may be related to whatever chain of events led up to its loss of a stripe on each wing. "Don't worry about that one, it's only Red 4."
One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of folks were added to the effects team during each production, and then reduced back to a skeleton staff between projects. Without a caretaker like Don, institutional memory was lost and it's easy to understand how things got misplaced and misidentified.
Whatever happened to it, it's an everlasting icon of our culture. Sure, I'm a huge fanboy, having witnessed it blow up the Death Star 100+ times as an eleven-year-old. Even so, I don't think it's a stretch to say it was one of the most important props in cinema history. I only wish someone as conscientious as Don had an opportunity to catalog and preserve it before it met its fate, whatever that was.
Part of my first thought to the above was 'or care'. Not to be cynical, but what gets lost (especially around here) is the fact of a lot of this simply being part of 'the job'. Things happen. I've met Lorne a couple of times and some of this he genuinely loves. (At least in public) Maybe he's stinking tired of it all and wishes he could take a hammer to them, for all the incessant nagging he probably gets about them! :rolleyes
Anyway, for it to be around in any condition, 30+ years later... just slightly amazing.
I'm curious about the formation of the archives themselves as well: was it meant solely to catalog assets, or to catalog and care for them? A mix of both? As the overall holdings include material from different libraries and collections that represent George's own love for the history of cinema, I think both. 'course, no small part of that is hoping it was always intended to be more than tag 'em and bag 'em.
I wonder how different attitudes of various personnel have shaped the condition too. Add tours, new use, whatever handling... and that's an interesting thought: it's only got four stripes, meh, it's a peeons ship.
Anyway, for it to be around in any condition, 30+ years later... just slightly amazing.
I'm curious about the formation of the archives themselves as well: was it meant solely to catalog assets, or to catalog and care for them? A mix of both? As the overall holdings include material from different libraries and collections that represent George's own love for the history of cinema, I think both. 'course, no small part of that is hoping it was always intended to be more than tag 'em and bag 'em.
I wonder how different attitudes of various personnel have shaped the condition too. Add tours, new use, whatever handling... and that's an interesting thought: it's only got four stripes, meh, it's a peeons ship.
Miniaturizer Ray
Well-Known Member
If Knoll took the photographs that he used to build the CGI textures then the Red 5 fuselage was in fairly sound shape well after 1987. The X-wing textures are collages of various models including the larger one, but a good deal of Red 5's fuselage is clearly evident. I originally thought that Knoll had built two fuselage textures (which gives four variants including mirrors), but I currently believe that there may be more. I personally have little enthusiasm for sitting through the CGI sequences on DVD, but if somebody has access to one of the HD copies of the movie that are floating around then it might be possible to make a more educated guess as to whether Red 5 was disassembled for Knoll's photography session.
Edit: Reading that back, I can see how it might be interpreted as baiting Don, which it isn't. What I'm saying is that if it's true (and I'm not suggesting that it isn't) that John Knoll took all of the photographs that he used to make the X-wing textures, and if it's true (and I'm not saying that it isn't) that the fuselage was already missing from the wings in 1987, then the fuselage must have been knocking around the archives (or maybe someplace else) separately from the wings for Knoll to find and photograph, whereas my pet theory was always that Knoll himself disassembled the model. Either way, if Don can definitely confirm that Knoll took all of the photographs that he used for the textures, then that's good news, because the chances are that the fuselage is still knocking around somewhere, and somebody just needs to find out where.
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RKW
Sr Member
The paint work looks too fresh Gino. Might be a restoration of this pyro model.
http://www.resinilluminati.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13641&d=1215641919
If not the same model then there must be a connection in them both having Red1 style fuselage weathering and three stripes on the wings.
http://www.resinilluminati.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13641&d=1215641919
If not the same model then there must be a connection in them both having Red1 style fuselage weathering and three stripes on the wings.
I'm not usually able to help with this kind of stuff as I know very little compared to yu guy's but I hope this pic may help someone some how. Its a genuine polaroid taken in 1976, it in my collection & I'm trying to get a date for it. I have just scanned it against good advice. I only just noticed you can see writing on the lower inner wing. I do have a 14MB.tiff file of this if anyone is interested? hope it helps
