All original parts Obi ANH saber - adding cotter pins

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by kurtyboy, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'm in process of upgrading my all original parts Obi saber with cotter pins going through the clamp and booster. I think I'm going to have to replace my clamp as the 'figure 8' holes don't appear to be in the right place, they don't line up with the holes in the booster.

    Has anyone mapped out exactly where to place the holes on the clamp in relation to the booster? :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2011
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  2. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes

    Is the whole cotter pin used? I can't figure out how this all fits together! :darnkids
     
  3. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes

    Pump that thread! :love
     
  4. James Kenobi 1138

    James Kenobi 1138 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    The figure 8 holes should be exactly opposite eachother on the clamp, and in that configuration the booster bearing holes will never line-up because the bearing holes are not opposite eachother. (similar the brass screw holes are exactly opposite eachother). I believe the clamp was at some point probably put up in a drill press and holes were drilled straight through from one side to the other.

    Currently there is no hard evidence that the cotter pins were used at all, and no hard evidence that the bearing is under the clamp either. I have not seen any Obi ANH saber yet that uses the bearing and cotter pins, and/or it looks exactly like available reference photos.

    If you can figure it out I'd love a tutorial because I never could.
     
  5. James Kenobi 1138

    James Kenobi 1138 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Also, if the bearing is screwed all the way down it covers the figure-8 holes where the wire would come out.
     
  6. D48thRonin

    D48thRonin Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    So is the consensus then that the saber was cobbled back together - with the cotter pins & brass screws - after the production wrapped, for reference photos (which are now known as the Mechanismo and Chronicles shots) and the saber - or sabers - that were constructed for the film were assembled without the pins & screws?
     
  7. James Kenobi 1138

    James Kenobi 1138 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Yes, sort of.

    The filming shots and screen caps show no wires and screws.

    Unless the cotter pins were tucked inside the clamp the whole time and then brought out and used if/when the saber needed repair it's a stretch that booster/bearing cotter pins were used.

    It makes more sense that if the center was a pipe or wooden dowel that a hole was drilled from top to bottom and a wire was inserted all the way through, cut on both ends, and bent over to keep the clamp in place and keep it from moving/sliding.

    No evidence has ever come out that the bearing assembly was ever used, but it's possible.

    No matter where you thread the bearing it's next to impossible to get a cotter pin in a hole, in the clamp, and out the figure-8 holes. Plus the holes don't match up with where the figure-8 holes are located, and the bearing blocks the openings.
     
  8. D48thRonin

    D48thRonin Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Yeah, I know - I had that same experience... so I faked it.

    I'm thinking of re-doing my saber with an unaltered clamp.
     
  9. Cenobyte

    Cenobyte Sr Member

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Can someone post a pic as I have no clue as to what you are referring to.

    I have an icons owl, and would like to see what you fellas are talking about.
     
  10. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    I'm of the opinion that the saber used in Tunisia and the one shown in the Chronicles shot is a different prop. There's just too many differences, and there MUST have been more than one OWK lightsaber prop made for filming.

    Dan
     
  12. Cenobyte

    Cenobyte Sr Member

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Thank you sir for the pics. makes sense now as to what you are referring to.
     
  13. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Is there a decent picture showing the other wire/cotter pin? The one half wau around the clamp?

    I notice that this one is rotated so the 8 hole is actually lined up with one of the booster ridges. If the other one is rotated the other way then it could be made to work.

     
  14. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    I eventually managed to get the cotter pins in there, just not sure exactly where to cut them. I take it all that should be left of them is a little 'U' shape?

    I would upload pictures but my PC refuses to pick up my camera these days. :rolleyes
     
  15. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    So, should I just cut these down to leave little 'u' shapes?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Bump. This is the only way I can see of getting the cotter pin through the booster bearing and figure 8 holes so that they are actually doing anything useful.

    Is this right?
     
  17. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    What if the cotter pin remains the same as seen in above picture (so in fact only half a leg remains on the cotterpin the other half is cut off at the other end once being through the bearing ... get it?) and the booster
    is screwed inside the graflex clamp stuck behind both tab holes ridges ... is there then an opening to get that one leg of the cotterpin wired through the first 'mistaken' eight hole and once out then pulled tight through the other eight hole and cut short? So that it's only purpose will become to hold the graflex clamp in place keeping it from spinning around a little on the booster bearing :)

    Mind you an Obi-Wan ANH lightsaber with this booster + booster bearing configuration attached like so inside the graflex clamp, will hold the booster already fixated tightly onto the clamp . . . on its own :)

    That's why initially no cotterpins would be needed, as James Kenobi has pointed out earlier, however during principle photography and dropping the lightsaber once again for say 'take 327' it could possibly have been heavily damaged and needed restoring after filming, just in case lateron some more pick-up shots with Alec Guinness and it's lightsaber-prop were needed for whatever scene necessary.

    Keep us posted Kurtyboy,

    -Chaim
     
  18. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    I don't see how this is possible.

     
  19. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    ... instead of words I should have used diagrams that would have visually explained what I had in mind :lol

    -Chaim
     
  20. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    I mean I don't see how it could be possible to get the cotter pin to go in and back out of the same figure 8 hole(s).

     
  21. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Hi Markus,

    I always though that the figure eight hole is made from 2 'O' drill holes which partly overlap in the middle thus the occuring of the figure 8. That way if you now push the cotter pin once through the first hole and then pull it tight towards the booster so that it gets stuck in the second 'O' of the eighthole ... savey? So there's no need to go in and back out!

    -Chaim
     
  22. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Sorry Chaim. I guess I'm just too dumb to visualise your whole idea of the use of the cotter pins. :wacko

     
  23. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Well I've installed the real booster cone. Just those cotter pins to worry about now!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Clutch

    Clutch Master Member

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Looking good. I understand what Chaim is saying. Slid the clamp over the pins so that you can pull them through the holes, then pull back. Snip excess. Done.
     
  25. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    ^ :) That's exactly what I meant Clutch ... I have no figure eight-holes in any of my graflex clamps yet,
    so I can't test this theory . . . can it be done?

    Looking good that real booster cone ... so I guess you have another complete (not cut) booster-bearing left to try my theory? Also how did you attach the booster cone to the top of the windvane neck? Nice real vintage balance pipe counterpart by the way as well as the grenade :) We'd like more pictures in this thread . . . please!

    -Chaim
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2011
  26. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    So what you're saying in essence is that the lower part of the pins (which currently lie against the booster) should be going under the clamp?

    There is a booster cone inside the clamp already. The cotter pins are currently going through the holes in the booster bearing.

    The balance pipe is the one that mates with the correct one. This is like the male version while the correct one is the female. It's from the correct engine.

     
  27. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Okay. Here's another attempt :

    1. I did bend the copper-pin to resemble the pins that were attached into the booster-bearing in the second picture of the vintage booster gear below:

    [​IMG]

    2. See how only one leg remains onto the cotter-pin which will make it easier if you want to follow the rest of my written tutorial. So cut one leg from the cotter pin for easy access through the first hole of the 8 lateron.
    3. Position the cotterpin inside the booster-bearing like so (disregard the booster gear in the following picture for now):

    [​IMG]

    4. Now slide the graflex clamp over the booster-bearing with the * part (= 'cone') of the booster-bearing outwards to the soon to be attached booster gear . . . so it can screw on lateron.
    5. When you tilt the booster-bearing 45 degrees inside the clamp you'd be able to make it stuck behind those rectangular ridges inside after you straighten the bearing once again, savey sofar?
    6. Now thread the copper-pin's leg, via bending it slightly, through the first hole of the 8 (farthest from the clamp edge).
    7. Screw the booster gear onto the booster-bearing until it is blocked by the edge of the graflex clamp.
    8. Then pull the cotterpin thight towards that same clamp edge so that it gets stuck in the second hole.
    9. All that is left now is the clipping of the threaded cotterpin's leg to resemble the mechanismo/chronicles books picture:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    :)

    -Chaim
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2011
  28. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Either I'm doing something wrong or step 6 is a physical impossibility!

     
  29. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Hi Marcus,

    I think I see what you mean, hm . . . perhaps the cotter-pin needs to be say cut in half to be able to thread through the first 8 hole? And perhaps the booster-bearing needs to go deeper inside the graflex clamp so that the end of the cotter-pin comes exactly opposite the first 8 hole and then can be bend and threaded through it more easily? Would that work?

    -Chaim
     
  30. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    I have no idea how to accomplish this. I have spent the last hour trying and I have to give up now before the saber goes through a window! :lol

     
  31. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Phew, finally it is done. It was absolutely impossible to get both cotter pins in the configuration mentioned above. Once the first one was in it simply is not possible to get the second one in that way.

    So the second one forms more an S shape. i.e. it is twisted to f**k, looks a complete mess on the inside but looks okay on the outside which is the main thing. They don't really do a good job of holding the clamp and gear together though (it wobbles a lot), but James Kenobi 1138 put a threaded rod (actually two threaded rods) through the saber so it's nice and solid anyway!

     
  32. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    So am I correct to assume you left both legs on one cotter-pin with one going through the eighthole? Even- though I did suggest to cut one leg of! And is your booster-bearing stuck nicely against the inside graflex tabs now? Awaiting patiently for your pics to allow us to hail your cotter-pin configuration :)

    -Chaim
     
  33. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    No, one leg was cut from the cotter pins with just a small loop on the rear side - this is not possible to do on both pins.

    Not sure if the bearing is against the tabs. There is a metal spacer in there that the transistors and threaded rods screw into.

     
  34. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    Ah . . . that explains your difficulties since my tutorial was intended for a clamp without a spacer inside, still I'm glad you seem to manage it ... now where are those pics, pretty please?

    -Chaim
     
  35. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    I didn't have the spacer in while I was wrestling with those blasted cotter pins!


     
  36. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  37. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    BRAVO!!!

    -Chaim
     
  38. OdiWan72

    OdiWan72 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    You have way too much spare time atm :lol

    VERY GOOD!!!!

    Markus
     
  39. parfaitelumiere

    parfaitelumiere Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    This was used toput the emitter on grenade section?
    I didn't know about that,it's interesting.
     
  40. KramStaar

    KramStaar Sr Member

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    Absolutely outstanding!!

    Bravo and congratulations on a truly brilliant job mate..

    Highest regards

    MARK
     
  41. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    Re: Obi ANH saber. Where to place the cotter pins and 'figure 8' holes?

    It was suggested by Howard and that's why Russreps made two types of booster cones : A the straight and B the tapered just like the real booster-bearing screw part:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    However you'd need 2 real vintage and complete booster gears to pull this of that is if you'd also like the booster-bearing inside the clamp, alas I only have one :cry and Kurtyboy apparantly had 2 but he did receive the vintage UK cotter-pins from me :)

    -Chaim
     
  42. parfaitelumiere

    parfaitelumiere Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    so it means holes will be visible on the back of emitter?
    and..how to fix it on brass section of grenade?
    or,it's just cut?

    what are sources mentionning this part was used?
    it could work,because bolt diameter is close to emitter diameter...
     
  43. PoopaPapaPalps

    PoopaPapaPalps Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    God, I love threads like these. Information little known shared amongst other enthusiasts to create something people know very little about.

    Absolutely love it.
     
  44. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    It needs to be cut.

    The emitter is fixed to the greneade with glue on the original. You can see the glue sticking out under the emitter. The bottom of the emitter is also crimped but I didn't want to damage my balance pipe.

     
  45. parfaitelumiere

    parfaitelumiere Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I didn't understand all,I'm french!

    But if this item was used,it's ok for me,

    It will hide correctly the jack for my led chain blade monting!

    I had in idea to make a ROTS type emitter,not sure for the moment,will see when it will be time to do it(can machine both,same price...free)
    maybe a emitter including a luxeon inside,but without optic,to save room!

    Are there any original pic showing the glue or the cone section?
     
  46. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    The emitter has been hammered on the inner part to secure it to the upper neck of the windvane section ... you can see the 'damage' in the picture in post #27.

    -Chaim
     
  47. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That's exactly what I meant by 'crimped'.
    From WIKI: Crimping is joining two pieces of metal other malleable material by deforming one or both of them to hold the other. The bend or deformity is called the crimp.

     
  48. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    ^ I know that, however I was merely 'translating' what you said for Patrice since he mentioned that he did not follow all of your explanation since he is french indeed and a very nice fellow and a fine lightsaber builder too, I might add :D

    -Chaim
     
  49. OldKen

    OldKen Master Member

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    What a piece of junk! :lol


    Actually several pieces. Of rediculously hard to find and expensive pieces of junk! :angel

    She's a beaut! :)

    Wish I could be of help but all I know about this saber is stuff I learned from you and a few others Markus! ;)

    What's sad is after I sell a few of my random extra helmets and kits and get my eFX Vader and hero TK... THIS will be my next must have. And I'm sure I will use all of your threads and hard work as a cheat sheet! :p
     

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