Obi Wan ANH hilt fate discussion

[Sithslayer]

Hi folks.

Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I couldn’t find the answer.

I’ve been wondering why the Obi Wan hero from ANH looks so different in the Chronicles book to what we see on screen.

My understanding is that the original prop included parts that were loaned and presumably returned to their owners after filming?

The Chronicles book was published in the 90’s, which implies the photographed hilts (Graflex, MPP V1, Obi hero) were from existing archived photographs.

No one seems to know what became of the Graflex or MPP.

My question is, when and why was the Obi hero modified? If it had vanished like the other two, how come we have pics of it in a different setup?

 

[PropFan]

My understanding after reading through this thread ANH Obi Wan Kenobi saber defined

is that the Obi ANH hero was constructed once for scenes shot in England and then rebuilt for scenes shot in Tunisia. The Chronicles photos are of the prop in its Tunisia configuration. Hope I remembered that correctly. Either way, the linked thread is probably a good place to start.

 

[scarf man]

My understanding after reading through this thread ANH Obi Wan Kenobi saber defined

is that the Obi ANH hero was constructed once for scenes shot in England and then rebuilt for scenes shot in Tunisia. The Chronicles photos are of the prop in its Tunisia configuration. Hope I remembered that correctly. Either way, the linked thread is probably a good place to start.

Reverse that, Tunisia locations were shot first.

 

[Tommy]

The SethS "Complete Lightsaber Prop Guide" indicates that the Chronicles is a third, unseen configuration, and that "there is debate over whether the Chronicle saber is the one used onscreen, or if it was rebuilt for the book."

 

[Sithslayer]

The SethS "Complete Lightsaber Prop Guide" indicates that the Chronicles is a third, unseen configuration, and that "there is debate over whether the Chronicle saber is the one used onscreen, or if it was rebuilt for the book."

Exactly! That’s the question that I was hoping someone knew the answer to or could shed some light on. I’ve looked into a few really great threads, but I’m still unsure if the Chronicles hilt is a modified Death Star hilt (if so, why?) or if it was something that was put together at a later time.

 

[Darthmagpie]

I definitely don't belong in this discussion with my limited knowledge of this saber, but I have to ask. If it was put together for the photo, why does it look so used with a missing washer, smashed transistors, ripped tape? ( or is it the original clamp because that wouldn't have been returned?)

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

OK, everything I’m about to say is pure speculation on my part and I in no way know any facts or have any inside information. This is just based on things I’ve seen and dots that I’ve connected over the years.

One of the first things is, we need to stop calling it the Tunisia version and the Death Star version because really it’s the Tunisia version and the Elstree Studios version because not only were the Death Star scenes filmed at Elstree Studios but so was the Cantina, the Millennium Falcon interior, and Ben’s hut on Tatooine.

It does seem like the lightsaber configuration from Elstree Studios is consistent across all scenes and only the Tunisia version appears different. You can tell from the Tunisia location photos that the grenade is assembled upside down and the hand wheel cubes are in their correct orientation. We do know that the film crew had to deal with laws about bringing weapons into Tunisia and that may or may not have affected the Kenobi Lightsaber. It’s possible the Lightsaber was brought in pieces to disguise their true parts and then assembled once they were in country. It is very hard to tell from the few Tunisia photos that we have if the parts on that Lightsaber are exactly the same as the ones from the Elstree Studios version but the Elstree Studios version does seem to match the chronicle photos overall.

I believe there was only one hero Kenobi Lightsaber built, and I base saying that on the fact that there was only one hero Han Solo blaster built that we are aware of, the recent auction of the Chewbacca Bowcaster seems to show that there was only one hero Bowcaster built, the photos taken with Mark Hamill in his Luke costume in California after filming had finished that include his Lightsaber prop match the Lightsaber that we seem to see in the movie, and the hero Darth Vader Lightsaber in ANH does appear to be the same one that was reused in ESB and ROTJ that was on display in the casino and then sold at auction. Similar to the new information about the Chewbacca Bowcaster and the fact that Han Solo‘s hero blaster was returned to Bapty I do think it is very, very possible that the hero Kenobi Lightsaber was returned and disassembled, and some of the parts may have been kept by Lucasfilm and other parts were given back to Bapty so to the best of my knowledge, the hero Kenobi Lightsaber no longer exists, although all of the original parts could maybe be tracked down but probably unlikely.

 

[Tommy]

[...] very, very possible that the hero Kenobi Lightsaber was returned and disassembled, and some of the parts may have been kept by Lucasfilm and other parts were given back to Bapty so to the best of my knowledge, the hero Kenobi Lightsaber no longer exists, although all of the original parts could maybe be tracked down but probably unlikely.

Be careful giving Tony ideas!

The one speculation I'll make with fairly high confidence is that – whatever consensus may be reached amongst the experts (one hero, maybe two heroes, oddly-enough five heroes...) – the first claimed hero that inevitably comes to auction will be marketed as "one of (consensus + n) heroes."


"...which also saw previous screen time in the hands of Frank Sinatra in The Naked Runner..."

 

[Sithslayer]

OK, everything I’m about to say is pure speculation on my part and I in no way know any facts or have any inside information. This is just based on things I’ve seen and dots that I’ve connected over the years.

One of the first things is, we need to stop calling it the Tunisia version and the Death Star version because really it’s the Tunisia version and the Elstree Studios version because not only were the Death Star scenes filmed at Elstree Studios but so was the Cantina, the Millennium Falcon interior, and Ben’s hut on Tatooine.

It does seem like the lightsaber configuration from Elstree Studios is consistent across all scenes and only the Tunisia version appears different. You can tell from the Tunisia location photos that the grenade is assembled upside down and the hand wheel cubes are in their correct orientation. We do know that the film crew had to deal with laws about bringing weapons into Tunisia and that may or may not have affected the Kenobi Lightsaber. It’s possible the Lightsaber was brought in pieces to disguise their true parts and then assembled once they were in country. It is very hard to tell from the few Tunisia photos that we have if the parts on that Lightsaber are exactly the same as the ones from the Elstree Studios version but the Elstree Studios version does seem to match the chronicle photos overall.

I believe there was only one hero Kenobi Lightsaber built, and I base saying that on the fact that there was only one hero Han Solo blaster built that we are aware of, the recent auction of the Chewbacca Bowcaster seems to show that there was only one hero Bowcaster built, the photos taken with Mark Hamill in his Luke costume in California after filming had finished that include his Lightsaber prop match the Lightsaber that we seem to see in the movie, and the hero Darth Vader Lightsaber in ANH does appear to be the same one that was reused in ESB and ROTJ that was on display in the casino and then sold at auction. Similar to the new information about the Chewbacca Bowcaster and the fact that Han Solo‘s hero blaster was returned to Bapty I do think it is very, very possible that the hero Kenobi Lightsaber was returned and disassembled, and some of the parts may have been kept by Lucasfilm and other parts were given back to Bapty so to the best of my knowledge, the hero Kenobi Lightsaber no longer exists, although all of the original parts could maybe be tracked down but probably unlikely.

Thanks for the clarification. Agree about calling them Tunisia and Elstree.
So that would mean since Tunisia was filmed first, that the parts were possibly assembled on set, disassembled for their return to the UK and reassembled with the grenade and handwheel cubes facing the other way.
At some point before returning the loaned parts to their owner, photographs were taken that were eventually published 20 years later in the Chronicles book.

So far so good, but what about all the modifications made to particularly the clamp? Why and when could this have taken place!

 

[PoopaPapaPalps]

The "when's and why's" of anything pertaining to the OT is baffling to me. Most of the time, it's easily explained as "they only had so much time" or "nobody bothered to put in the extra effort" but, sometimes, the level of effort to produce something like components of R2 or even the stunt FX hilts just boggle the mind. Why the hell did they go through all this effort?

I do agree that the Chronicles photo is of the Hero hilt taken some time during the end of production or post-production for reference. I, and many others, used to feel that the Chronicles was assembled specifically for the photo many years later, but what we know now, it seems that possibility is less plausible. Who knows why the further mods with the screws and cotter pin were added, especially if the thing was going to be disassembled later and returned to Bapty. My best guess is that they were mods added over time during the shoot and, if they needed pick-ups in future, they would at least have a photo of the prop to make some kind of facsimile later on once it had been disassembled and returned.

 

[Sithslayer]

The "when's and why's" of anything pertaining to the OT is baffling to me. Most of the time, it's easily explained as "they only had so much time" or "nobody bothered to put in the extra effort" but, sometimes, the level of effort to produce something like components of R2 or even the stunt FX hilts just boggle the mind. Why the hell did they go through all this effort?

I do agree that the Chronicles photo is of the Hero hilt taken some time during the end of production or post-production for reference. I, and many others, used to feel that the Chronicles was assembled specifically for the photo many years later, but what we know now, it seems that possibility is less plausible. Who knows why the further mods with the screws and cotter pin were added, especially if the thing was going to be disassembled later and returned to Bapty. My best guess is that they were mods added over time during the shoot and, if they needed pick-ups in future, they would at least have a photo of the prop to make some kind of facsimile later on once it had been disassembled and returned.

That makes sense. I wondered if during reassembly for the photo, a different clamp was used, but the pin and screws are not something I’ve ever seen on a Graflex clamp before, so they wouldn’t have been photographer mods. I have seen clamps with missing levers that were held together by a long hex screw, but never anything like this.

It’s possible that something internal broke or came loose during filming and the brass screws and cotter pin were added to secure it to finish filming and it was then photographed in this state before being returned to Bapty.

It’s a mystery but it’s intriguing!
If the original Star Wars in particular proves anything, it’s that the prop team used quick fixes on the spot (bent nail on MPP, pin through lever on Graflex, rivets on the lower cell on Graflex etc). They were added for practical not cosmetic reasons.

In conclusion, it seems the most likely explanation for the bizarre look of the Chronicles Obi is that this was the same Hero used throughout filming, at a very late stage of production or early post-production prior to loaned parts being returned to their owners.

 

[schrodinger555]

I don't remember where/who this came from, but this has the photos of the Obi used in the chronicles book as well as photos of the Luke ANH as we see it during the movie and also has all the same details seen during post production promo, like the position of the lever, slide switch, clocking of screw etc. I think these were continuity photos taken during the filming or even before, to make sure things could be reassembled in case of damage/another prop could be made as a stand in, also in the case of damage. There's also an image from the Elstree shoots in the Death Star where you can see the hole for the cotter pins in the Obi clamp.

My belief is that the Tunisia and Elstree Obi sabers are two different sabers entirely, the hand wheel has had the cubes flipped, and the bubble strip appears to be different. In Tunisia it looks like a clear strip, and in the Chronicles photos it has round bubbles that are taller than standard Exactra bubbles that only appear on some Exactra 20 and TI-2000 calcs. We know for a fact they had one of these special calcs at least because of the Vader V2 clamp card.

The grenade also appears to be a variant of the MK1 with a different neck section that has a flat non beveled slope just before the neck. There's also been speculation that the BP on that particular saber may be a Male due to the diameter, though I'm not sure if that's the case. At any rate, I think they're two different sabers, and at the very least we know they were clocked differently part to part. My feeling here is if we knew exactly when the photos I posted were taken, we'd have an idea of whether they had assembled it in the Chronicles config originally and then had to assemble a new saber in Tunisia, or whether they built one for Tunisia and then redesigned it fully in the UK

 

[teecrooz]

The photo above was saved from an old eBay sale. It is part of the ANH Contact Sheets/Continuity Photos set. The Chronicles photos as well as the Tom Jung Auction photo are just better quality versions of the ones above.

Chronicles/Elstree version is seen on screen. Wires/cotter pins and screws confirmed in the Death Star corridor. There is even at least one Death Star Elstree shot where I’ve identified the cubes on the same way as Tunisia. We know there were two transistors on the Falcon, and one by the time the saber drop was filmed.

Quite a bit said here is right, but also some assumptions that I won’t correct because I’m not able to post the photos, so just build the saber how you see it and makes you happy and know there are variations.