Good to know.
Accident on the set of Rust.
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The 24-year-old head armorer of Alec Baldwin's movie 'Rust' told a podcast she almost didn't take her last job because she wasn't sure if she was ready
Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, 24, told a podcast she almost turned down the head-armorer job in a recent project because of self-doubt about her experience.
www.insider.com
Lightning
Master Member
Except one of the rules of gun safety is not to look down the barrel of a gun, so you technically shouldn't check that way.
Star Trek Discovery had 20 at one point
He was pointed toward the camera, and they were behind the camera.
Apparently there were 2-3 other "miss fires" on the set. I'm not sure if that involved live ammunition or blanks but it sounds like it was indeed a single live bullet that caused the fatal shot. The head armorer on set only had one other production under her belt and had wasn't sure if she was ready to take on this position. I guess she is pretty young and the daughter of a famous armorer. I don't understand was there was ANY real ammunition on set.
Pumpkinhead
Active Member
baldwin is anti-gun & constantly tells us he is trying to take our guns. If he knew about guns & learned to respect them he would have checked before he pointed it at innocent people. He is a producer & he is responsible for the crew.Alec Baldwin has killed a cameraman and wounded the director of his new film ``Rust``.
Accidental discharge of a gun. The investigation is ongoing and Baldwin was not charged by the
Sheriff`s office. Very sad day for everybody involved with the production and the families of the people
impacted by this accident.
baldwin, of course he points the finger elsewhere. Takes no responsibility. POS.
Balwin was using a single action revolver; so he had to deliberately cock the hammer first before pulling the trigger.
Darth Lars
Master Member
That may apply to a modern revolver, but older revolvers were much less safe.
Modern revolvers have safety mechanisms that prevents the hammer from impacting the primer unless the trigger is actually pulled. In a modern S&W there is a bar called a "hammer block" that gets retracted by the trigger, but in a Charter Arms revolver for instance (I learned this when researching the Blade Runner gun
) there is a bar that gets pushed up in-between to transfer the force from the hammer to the firing pin.The first generations of revolvers — as used in the Old West, and period for this movie — didn't have any of these. The hammer rested directly on the primer, and could infamously be discharged if the hammer got hit, for instance if dropped.
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Darth Lars
Master Member
There are also multiple types of blanks-firing guns — some of which are supposed to have a plug permanently installed in the barrel.
A regular actor can't be expected to keep track of which type a particular prop gun is, and which abnormalities to look for. He can only get his information from the hired expert.
And if he has seen one of the types before he might be easily lulled into believing that the properties of that type is normal.
gunnerk19
Master Member
The production of the ''Rookie" has stated that no "live" weapons will be used on set from now on. Only Air Soft will be used.
Muzzle effects will be added on post with CG.
I've noticed this in low budget films (Think SyFy channel) where actors are "firing" automatic weapons and the muzzle effects and sound are added in post.
But in every one you'll notice there is no spent brass from the guns. Ever. You can watch an entire 30 round magazine dump and not a single shell being kicked out the ejection port.
TazMan2000
Master Member
Blanks are also supposed to have a wad of some material keeping the powder contained in the rear section where the primer can ignite it. It won't take the coroner to find out what the projectile was. It could even be a section of brass from the crimp. I can't see it ever being an actual live round.
TazMan2000
TazMan2000
Originally posted:
I have been asked by many people in and out of the industry for my take on the tragedy on the set of “Rust” yesterday. While many facts are still not determined and the investigation remains fluid, I feel that I can say without reservation one thing:
________________________________________________________
This tragedy was completely avoidable.
Here is a rundown of how a gun should travel from the Property lockup to set, and back:
• A trained Property person removes the weapon from the gun safe, they “clear” the gun; checking that the barrel is unobstructed, and the magazine is empty. Professional Property Persons will habitually clear a weapon every single time it passes into their hands.
As a hard rule, there is never any live ammunition allowed in the lockup, on the Prop truck, on stage, or inside any filming location.
• The gun arrives in the stage or the location and is either secured in a locking cabinet or retained in the possession of, and under the control of, the Property person. It is certainly lever left unattended in plain view on a prop cart.
• Prior to rehearsal the Prop person clears the weapon in the presence of:
1. The first Assistant Director
2. Any person the gun may get aimed at, including both cast & crew
3. The actor who will be handling the weapon in the scene
This gives everyone confidence that the weapon is “cold,” meaning it is unloaded.
The standard admonition given to the actor when handing off a gun includes:
1. Treat every weapon as if it is loaded
2. Practice muzzle control
3. Keep the trigger finger outside of the trigger guard until ready to fire
• An actor is always explicitly told “Hot Gun” or “Cold Gun” by the Weapons Handler every. Single. Time.
• During the rehearsal actors verbally call out their shots to ascertain where everyone will be when the shots are fired and make certain that no one, cast or crew, is in the direct line of fire and/or too close. No blanks are EVER used in rehearsal. This is the time to ensure that the scene can be shot safely. If an actor feels that they need to practice with their gun they are given time to train under the supervision of a trained Property Person, away from the set area. The 1st AD is the final authority on safety, but any crew member can express their concerns.
• When it comes time to shoot the scene, the Property Person/Weapons Handler loads the magazine for the weapon with the required number of blanks for that shot. The weapon is made “hot” [the magazine inserted and a round chambered] only when cameras are ready to roll, and the Handler announces “Fire in the hole” followed by how many shots will be fired. At no time should a “hot” weapon be loaded with more rounds than are needed for the take. Sometimes an AD will want to be able to shoot multiple takes without cutting and ask for a fully loaded weapon. This is a hard no. Stunt performers sometimes ask for a fully loaded weapon so they can ad lib. This is a hard no.
• When the cameras cut the Weapons Handler retrieves the weapon from the actor and immediately clears it. If there is a stovepipe misfire or any type of jamming in the weapon it is removed from set to be checked for malfunction. Good policy dictates that if there are multiple guns on set that each Weapons Handler is expected to manage no more than 3 guns at most. More weapons means more Handlers. When the scene is completed all weapons are cleared and promptly returned to a gun safe or other lockup.
I count at least five of these protocols that had to have been disregarded in order for the recent tragedy to happen. It clearly involved failures on the part of Assistant Directors, Property Persons, and Actors. This should not have happened.
I have been asked by many people in and out of the industry for my take on the tragedy on the set of “Rust” yesterday. While many facts are still not determined and the investigation remains fluid, I feel that I can say without reservation one thing:
________________________________________________________
This tragedy was completely avoidable.
Here is a rundown of how a gun should travel from the Property lockup to set, and back:
• A trained Property person removes the weapon from the gun safe, they “clear” the gun; checking that the barrel is unobstructed, and the magazine is empty. Professional Property Persons will habitually clear a weapon every single time it passes into their hands.
As a hard rule, there is never any live ammunition allowed in the lockup, on the Prop truck, on stage, or inside any filming location.
• The gun arrives in the stage or the location and is either secured in a locking cabinet or retained in the possession of, and under the control of, the Property person. It is certainly lever left unattended in plain view on a prop cart.
• Prior to rehearsal the Prop person clears the weapon in the presence of:
1. The first Assistant Director
2. Any person the gun may get aimed at, including both cast & crew
3. The actor who will be handling the weapon in the scene
This gives everyone confidence that the weapon is “cold,” meaning it is unloaded.
The standard admonition given to the actor when handing off a gun includes:
1. Treat every weapon as if it is loaded
2. Practice muzzle control
3. Keep the trigger finger outside of the trigger guard until ready to fire
• An actor is always explicitly told “Hot Gun” or “Cold Gun” by the Weapons Handler every. Single. Time.
• During the rehearsal actors verbally call out their shots to ascertain where everyone will be when the shots are fired and make certain that no one, cast or crew, is in the direct line of fire and/or too close. No blanks are EVER used in rehearsal. This is the time to ensure that the scene can be shot safely. If an actor feels that they need to practice with their gun they are given time to train under the supervision of a trained Property Person, away from the set area. The 1st AD is the final authority on safety, but any crew member can express their concerns.
• When it comes time to shoot the scene, the Property Person/Weapons Handler loads the magazine for the weapon with the required number of blanks for that shot. The weapon is made “hot” [the magazine inserted and a round chambered] only when cameras are ready to roll, and the Handler announces “Fire in the hole” followed by how many shots will be fired. At no time should a “hot” weapon be loaded with more rounds than are needed for the take. Sometimes an AD will want to be able to shoot multiple takes without cutting and ask for a fully loaded weapon. This is a hard no. Stunt performers sometimes ask for a fully loaded weapon so they can ad lib. This is a hard no.
• When the cameras cut the Weapons Handler retrieves the weapon from the actor and immediately clears it. If there is a stovepipe misfire or any type of jamming in the weapon it is removed from set to be checked for malfunction. Good policy dictates that if there are multiple guns on set that each Weapons Handler is expected to manage no more than 3 guns at most. More weapons means more Handlers. When the scene is completed all weapons are cleared and promptly returned to a gun safe or other lockup.
I count at least five of these protocols that had to have been disregarded in order for the recent tragedy to happen. It clearly involved failures on the part of Assistant Directors, Property Persons, and Actors. This should not have happened.
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As a gun owner I must say there are no accidental discharges of firearms.
They are negligent discharges.
How this happened is beyond me. The set armorer should also be held responsible.
They are negligent discharges.
How this happened is beyond me. The set armorer should also be held responsible.
JediMichael
Master Member
I like the step by step rundown of how a weapon is suppose to be handled on set.
You know what's interesting about Baldwin's anti-gun stance?
It's totally effing irrelevant. Along with the rest of his politics. And the rest of his personal life.
Before the fatal accident, a crew member tweeted that there had been several accidental gun discharges on the set. If you guys wanna start pointing fingers then I can't imagine starting anywhere else besides the armorer. And the rest of the top brass on the set for allowing filming to continue after that. If Baldwin gets any blame after the dust settles then it's probably for his producer job, not for being the actor firing the weapon.
Actors are not normal citizens on a gun range trying to handle firearms responsibly. Have you guys ever watched a movie before? Reckless handling of firearms is written right into the script half the time. They are working on tight schedules. Repeating very similar actions & shots many times. Switching off between identical-looking copies of the same weapon that are set up different ways. Etc. They do all this while their primary job is not paying attention to the weapon setups at all. Their mind is supposed to be on other things the whole time.
The whole scene is practically designed to cause firearm accidents. It bears no resemblance to the way a responsible gun owner handles one. Movie sets employ an armorer to cope with the risks. The average citizen doesn't need to hire a paid armoror when they use their own guns - because the circumstances are totally different.
I don't know who was at fault for this. Too early. But the knee-jerk Baldwin-bashing at this stage is ridiculous IMO.
It's totally effing irrelevant. Along with the rest of his politics. And the rest of his personal life.
Before the fatal accident, a crew member tweeted that there had been several accidental gun discharges on the set. If you guys wanna start pointing fingers then I can't imagine starting anywhere else besides the armorer. And the rest of the top brass on the set for allowing filming to continue after that. If Baldwin gets any blame after the dust settles then it's probably for his producer job, not for being the actor firing the weapon.
Actors are not normal citizens on a gun range trying to handle firearms responsibly. Have you guys ever watched a movie before? Reckless handling of firearms is written right into the script half the time. They are working on tight schedules. Repeating very similar actions & shots many times. Switching off between identical-looking copies of the same weapon that are set up different ways. Etc. They do all this while their primary job is not paying attention to the weapon setups at all. Their mind is supposed to be on other things the whole time.
The whole scene is practically designed to cause firearm accidents. It bears no resemblance to the way a responsible gun owner handles one. Movie sets employ an armorer to cope with the risks. The average citizen doesn't need to hire a paid armoror when they use their own guns - because the circumstances are totally different.
I don't know who was at fault for this. Too early. But the knee-jerk Baldwin-bashing at this stage is ridiculous IMO.
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I read an article where they talked to a retired SEAL who works on the SEAL Team tv show and he basically said it comes down to people not being instructed in basic firearm safety on set even though they are prop guns. Any experienced gun user, when handed a gun, would check to see if it was loaded and then what it was loaded with (especially if you're told it's blanks). I think he's a pompous *ss, but I wouldn't wish this one anyone.
I agree on the knee jerk Baldwin bashing. One of the (many) things I hate about this is that peoples opinions on gun safety are being shaped by whether or not they like the guy involved. I want no part of that. I also want no part of judging without the facts.
Pretty much hate the rest of your post. There is ALWAYS time for weapons check. Always. If you're on a tight schedule, you can cut some rehearsal, or lighting time, or push the schedule back, but the thing you never ever cut is weapons safety. This case has me riled up exactly because I've even seen other performers say this. The last time I was involved in a show with shooting it was a live stage show. Well over a hundred rounds fired per night, several times a week. Zero accidents. If you're willing to risk the lives of your coworkers because you're running late, I won't just demand you be fired, I'll ask security to escort you out. It's a GUN! I don't care if the lead designer of Smith & Wesson assembled it from spare parts right in front of you, when he hands it to you, check it. If nothing else comes of this, I would very much like everyone who ever shoots a movie or does an outdoor drama to learn that.
Alec Baldwin ignored the No. 1 rule of gun safety: Hollywood weapons expert
Alec Baldwin failed to follow the No. 1 rule of gun safety before the fatal shooting on the set of “Rust,” a Hollywood weapons expert tells The Post.
nypost.com
I get what you're saying. But the whole scene is extremely "busy" compared to a normal gun owner using his own stuff. I'm not saying it excuses unsafe habits but it leaves more openings for foul-ups.
This case sounds like they had an unsafe set environment in general. I'm not trying to excuse that. The first accidental discharge on that set should have been the only one. Zero tolerance. The producers should have stopped everything right then and gotten to the bottom of it.
Look at the gun accidents on movie sets in the past. And other accidents for that matter. They typically come down to multi-part failures, more often than a single individual doing something terribly wrong. Several actions (or pure incidents of bad luck) that were individually minor will add up to something tragic.
We don't know what happened with AB's accident yet. But my own knee-jerk guess, if I'm gonna make one, is that there were probably multiple factors.
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TazMan2000,
I can not tear myself away from this thread discussion. For what it’s worth, I understood your child example as an analogy and did not take it literally based on your previous comments. Your clerk / customer scenario is also interesting.
There is no question in my mind that AJTaliesen and others here are correct when it comes to the rules of gun handling responsibility when you pick one up.
There are no exceptions, because we are human. Ask a range officer or gun shop owner his or her experience when an arriving member / customer is asked if he read the sign upon entering, and then requires the weapon’s bolt to be open. I feel that the entertainment industry has experienced what is called “Normalization of Deviance” in their use of firearms. Times and people have changed.
I know it's been said earlier, and I'm still fuzzy on it's been absolutely confirmed, but WHAT THE F--- was a live round doing anywhere near the set?? It's just such a mind-boggling breach if true...
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