Accident on the set of Rust.

[gregory]

Ok… but using the car logic… there was a guy a few years back in my town, who dropped his car at the dealership to have work done. He picked up his car, and they told him it was all fixed and ready to go. He left and while in traffic the front tires fell off and it caused a major accident on the turnpike. One person died. In the end, the dealership was held responsible because they failed to tighten the bolts properly, and they were sued. Should the driver have been charged since he did not check all the parts of the car himself? Should he not trust the word of a mechanic who was hired to fix the car properly, and who told him it was safe to drive?

See… there are always going to be different circumstances and situations that lead to an outcome. Right now we need to let the investigators go through all the info and facts that led up to this and stop placing blame on one person. If anything, we should all agree that there is a line of people that are responsible. If one… just one… did their job correctly, this whole thing could have been avoided. But it was one failure after the other that ended up resulting in this tragedy.

I should have foreseen this analogy would take us down the wrong road. The truth is I don’t know very much about auto mechanics. I do however know a fair bit about Single Action Army revolvers. I know for example they are far easier to check than an automobile for safety. So there is no excuse for not checking a firearm that is valid in this case or any other case. As I see it Alec Baldwin and the rest of the producers are also culpable in that the hired inexperienced people to handle their safety protocols.

 

[The Terminator]

I read some where, a guy who has worked in Hollywood, stated actors aren't even allowed to "check" the guns they are handed.
True or false???

 

[JPH]

That argument is flawed since the single action army Alec Baldwin was handling is
a firearm. Reason dictates that it behaves like a firearm, not like a light emitting replica firearm. Blanks are often used on movie sets and they are dangerous. A firearm is capable of being loaded with regular live ammunition rounds which are dangerous. Therefore it is in no way shape or form to be confused with a toy gun in an arcade.
There is no valid reason that Alec Baldwin should not have checked that firearm personally. If a driver of a vehicle asks a passenger if the lane next to him is clear, and due to misinformation causes an accident who gets charged? The driver. The driver is responsible for their actions.
Is the passenger culpable maybe. What if the passenger lacked experience? Is a five year old a good enough source for a clearance to change lanes, or should you go ahead and check for yourself first? Remember the producers hired an inexperienced armourer. If you want to cut corners look at craft services not safety measures. The producers saved some money, it cost a human life.

Great response!

Dont be surprised if you see the same people ask that question again and again, though, hoping for a different answer.

Like that definition of "insanity."

Oh, and if they dont like your answer, you might get called "attention-seeking" or they will claim to leave the thread, only to return and promptly ask, yet another person the SAME QUESTION.

Seriously, the jokes write themselves.

 

[gregory]

I read some where, a guy who has worked in Hollywood, stated actors aren't even allowed to "check" the guns they are handed.
True or false???

False. I’m assuming you’re be facetious, but in case you’re not. Who would be doing the disallowing? and what would the purpose be?

 

[The Terminator]

Surprises me how many Gun “experts “ here who have absolutely no clue as to what they are talking about!

I'm Swedish, and a civilian. Most of what I know, I know through watching American films and tv shows. Basically I can change a mag(or is it called a clip?? I don't know! I do know some people get upset when you get it wrong haha) for a Beretta 92F/M9, remove the safety and fire it.
Meaning I am clueless. And I stay away from guns. No offense!

 

[The Terminator]

False. I’m assuming you’re be facetious, but in case you’re not. Who would be doing the disallowing? and what would the purpose be?

I didn't even know what "facetious" meant! lol
I assumed it was true, and that it was for some BS insurance reason... or a safety reason.

 

[JPH]

I read some where, a guy who has worked in Hollywood, stated actors aren't even allowed to "check" the guns they are handed.
True or false???

Earlier in this thread is are excerpts from SAG's gun policy. In other words, rules that Baldwin agrees to follow.

And remember, Baldwin has been in multiple movies with guns. So, he cant plead ignorance.

No actor is supposed to touch a gun without proper training first.

Never point the gun at anyone.

Check your weapon.

 

[Birdie]

Interesting quote from actor Jeffrey Wright '“I don’t recall ever being handed a weapon that was not cleared in front of me – meaning chamber open, barrel shown to me, light flashed inside the barrel to make sure that it’s cleared,” Wright said. “Clearly, that was a mismanaged set.”

Rust film set shooting: prosecutor says criminal charges possible

Santa Fe county district attorney tells New York Times weapon Alec Baldwin fired was ‘legit’ antique gun

www.theguardian.com

 

[Pumpkinhead]

Airsoft weapons pride themselves on being accurate and realistic. Made of metal and wood in some cases. Sure, you won't get the muzzle flash and will have to CGI that in. I know that it doesn't look good, however it's safer.

 

[Riceball]

If the next shot was supposed to be Baldwin quick drawing towards the camera, wouldn't he need to be doing that pose to get the camera aimed and focused right?

I'm not a cinematographer but I don't think that setting up the lighting and cameras doesn't need to involve the actor acting out whatever it is they're doing. Not to mention, this is what stand ins are for, they stand in for actors while the crew sets things up for the next scene while the actor is either in wardrobe, makeup, or just waiting in their trailer for a PA to come and fetch them.

Even if he was needed on set for them to set up the lights and cameras, this still doesn't excuse Baldwin from failing to personally the gun handed to him to ensure that it was indeed cold as he was told it was. As has been stated in this thread numerous times by numerous people, one of the top rules of firearm safety is to treat every gun as if it is loaded and unless you're shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's unloaded, it's up to the individual receiving the gun to confirm for themselves that it's indeed unloaded. Trust, but verify.

 

[JoeG]

Interesting quote from actor Jeffrey Wright '“I don’t recall ever being handed a weapon that was not cleared in front of me – meaning chamber open, barrel shown to me, light flashed inside the barrel to make sure that it’s cleared,” Wright said. “Clearly, that was a mismanaged set.”

Rust film set shooting: prosecutor says criminal charges possible

Santa Fe county district attorney tells New York Times weapon Alec Baldwin fired was ‘legit’ antique gun

www.theguardian.com

I've been reading similar things from other actors and people who work in movies. The actor isn't expected to check the gun, but they are supposed to ask the person handing it to them to demonstrate that its empty.

 

[Riceball]

I've been reading similar things from other actors and people who work in movies. The actor isn't expected to check the gun, but they are supposed to ask the person handing it to them to demonstrate that its empty.

Which apparently not done on the set of Rust. So it's still Baldwin's fault for not asking the AD to show him that the weapon was indeed unloaded and cold when it was handed to him.

 

[SciFiMuseum]

This is the last shot of Halyna Hutchens before the accident. So now there is no speculation about where everyone was standing.

 

[TazMan2000]

That argument is flawed since the single action army Alec Baldwin was handling is
a firearm. Reason dictates that it behaves like a firearm, not like a light emitting replica firearm. Blanks are often used on movie sets and they are dangerous. A firearm is capable of being loaded with regular live ammunition rounds which are dangerous. Therefore it is in no way shape or form to be confused with a toy gun in an arcade.
There is no valid reason that Alec Baldwin should not have checked that firearm personally. If a driver of a vehicle asks a passenger if the lane next to him is clear, and due to misinformation causes an accident who gets charged? The driver. The driver is responsible for their actions.
Is the passenger culpable maybe. What if the passenger lacked experience? Is a five year old a good enough source for a clearance to change lanes, or should you go ahead and check for yourself first? Remember the producers hired an inexperienced armourer. If you want to cut corners look at craft services not safety measures. The producers saved some money, it cost a human life.

You're viewing the events from an gun expert's point of view, I'm viewing it from a court/judge's point of view. Do you think that the jury will be packed with 12 gun experts? Some people don't even know how to classify screw drivers, much less know what a real firearm is. Give me the one with the "X" or the "square" one.

Take a step back and view things from a general point of view, and not a range safety officer. I have no doubt, that you know how to identify a real weapon from a prop/fake. Do you think everyone does?

You're driver/passenger analogy points out mitigating circumstances. That is what the court will hear in this case.

TazMan2000

 

[TazMan2000]

I should have foreseen this analogy would take us down the wrong road. The truth is I don’t know very much about auto mechanics. I do however know a fair bit about Single Action Army revolvers. I know for example they are far easier to check than an automobile for safety. So there is no excuse for not checking a firearm that is valid in this case or any other case. As I see it Alec Baldwin and the rest of the producers are also culpable in that the hired inexperienced people to handle their safety protocols.

It's not the wrong road. It's an analogy for people to look at things from a different perspective.

You admit, that you don't know much about auto mechanics, so you rely on the experience of professionals to ensure your vehicle is safe to drive. You shouldn't have to check the lug nuts being tightened, the air filter being in place, the oil filter or oil cap being there when you go pick up your vehicle. The dealership should have professionals and a system where the work is checked after by a supervisor.

TazMan2000

 

[Lightning]

False. I’m assuming you’re be facetious, but in case you’re not. Who would be doing the disallowing? and what would the purpose be?

I could totally see someone (insurance?) making that rule. For example, say you have a revolver that the armorer has put 5 rounds in, with the hammer over the empty chamber. If the Actor was to open and inspect the weapon, there's no guarantee they will put it back in the same alignment, thereby reducing the safety of the situation.

Jeffery Wright's anecdote about being shown it was empty by the person handing it to him, is the best of both worlds.

 

[Rogue]

I'm Swedish, and a civilian. Most of what I know, I know through watching American films and tv shows. Basically I can change a mag(or is it called a clip?? I don't know! I do know some people get upset when you get it wrong haha) for a Beretta 92F/M9, remove the safety and fire it.
Meaning I am clueless. And I stay away from guns. No offense!

To be fair, every community has it's hot-button topics and issues over definitions. Imagine the response if I posted a thread in the replica props forum titled, "Production made and screen used are basically the same thing, stop being so picky"

Though if you really want to know, a clip holds rounds ready to load into a magazine. For firearms with fixed/not usually detached magazines (e.g., C96 Mauser, Lee Enfields, M1 Garands, etc), you use the clip to feed rounds into (usually) the top of the firearm and push them down into the magazine. You can load a lot of rounds quite quickly that way, compared to feeding them in one at a time.

Modern firearms tend to use removable magazines instead. Though you can get stripper clips and tools to make loading magazines easier - I have one for my AR15 mags, not that I ever use it...

For just about anything designed post-WW2 you're probably safest to say magazine rather than clip!

 

[TazMan2000]

Rogue
True. I haven't seen this much vitriol since the discussion of the Millennium Falcon mandibles as being toed in or parallel.

TazMan2000

 

[Rogue]

Rogue
True. I haven't seen this much vitriol since the discussion of the Millennium Falcon mandibles as being toed in or parallel.

TazMan2000

How was that even a discussion?!? The answer is blindingly clear to everyone!

 

[gregory]

It's not the wrong road. It's an analogy for people to look at things from a different perspective.

You admit, that you don't know much about auto mechanics, so you rely on the experience of professionals to ensure your vehicle is safe to drive. You shouldn't have to check the lug nuts being tightened, the air filter being in place, the oil filter or oil cap being there when you go pick up your vehicle. The dealership should have professionals and a system where the work is checked after by a supervisor.

I do understand that certain events like the aforementioned car incident are less preventable than this very preventable tragedy, consider your point proven. Not sure how it pertains to rust in a pertinent way though. But trying to steer the conversation back to the issue at hand.

Negligence in gun safety protocols killed a woman. With regard to a motor vehicle I drove an F-250 with a CVOR in Ontario Canada. As such I was held to certain safety protocols. Each day before driving the vehicle I would conduct a safety check of the vehicle with time stamp signature etc to validate. I no longer need the CVOR but still do the inspection daily old dogs being what they are. In my example you can see how I was held to a certain standard, and if I caused an accident that was related to my failure to do the inspection I would be found negligent and I’m pretty sure the court would not care for my excuses.