The Ultimate Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi Real Vintage Parts Lightsaber Group
- Thread starter Sym-Cha
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I’ll go first, that looks amazing! I don’t think you could have found better parts.Sure
scarf man
Master Member
Let me preface this by saying that it’s not meant to belittle you or be snobbish towards your saber.Sure
So, here goes.
Why leave the red paint on the grenade? It just doesn’t look right for the prop.
Why not weather the clamp according to the reference pics? Trying to replicate the prop and its idiosyncrasies is the goal, no?
If these are personal preferences... could you shed some light as to why?
Overall it’s quite an achievement to hunt down all those rare and expensive bits and bobs, well done.
To the group:
Why do so many of us try to personalize our props, when ideally they should be much more similar than they are? Some would say that’s boring, I’d say that’s excellence, and true replication. Perhaps the line between props and art is too fine, and I’m stuck trying to nudge people one way or the other. Nudging is fine, don’t tell me that people don’t need a nudge now and then.
I do, as I’ve said before, understand the attachment to history, and the desire to “do it like they did”, but not at the sacrifice of accuracy. Replication is about exactitude, it‘s in the definition of the term. Since we are not the original artist, we will undoubtedly bring something of ourselves into the mix, but IMO we need to minimize our influence.
It‘s been ages since I’ve seen someone drill holes in their clamp, or file the bottom edge of their balance pipe, not to mention the scratch between the pommel cubes, or epoxy overflowing from here and there.
None of you guys owe me an explanation, and can leave it at personal preference if you want.
I’m just trying to understand why I seem like such an outlier where accuracy is concerned regarding this prop.
Oh, and those new old stock aircraft washers are not accurate, just vintage.
Well, that turned into a soapbox post, but I stand by it.
Hey Scarf man I'd like to add my oppinion. Years ago I collected a set of early bust quarters. I always looked for orginal unaltered pieces because they held their value better. I'm not sure what Khal's reasons are, but I can understand leaving the part original without altering it. Sometimes leaving a part with out cutting it or painting it can retain the value of that part. We all know by looking at Khal's saber and knowledge of his skills he can make that saber look exaclty like the prop if he wished, and he might still do that. That being said I can also understand leaving the part as he found it for the purpose of originality. I made a pair of very accurated macrobinoculars which I regret selling and I never painted the lensed for the reasons I mentioned above, but I knew I could if I wished. Anyway I like Khals saber as is it's just tiny touchups at this point to get it accurate to the referance known.
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Speaking for myself, I am not concerned with "screen accuracy" on any of my replicas. Whether I buy a prop already made or build it myself, my main goal is that it represents what I've established in my mind as what the prop is. That's it. Other people's ideas of what my replica should be are of little concern to me. I honestly don't see why someone would want something in their collection that looks just like what many other people have. Sure, to the layman, if they saw all our individual real parts Obis lined up next to each other, they would look pretty much identical. We here would spot the differences, though. Kind of reminds me of a certain creed others here may be familiar with...
"This is my lightsaber. There are many like it, but this one is mine."
scarf man
Master Member
I would think the main reason is simply the extreme scarcity and resulting high price of these parts makes one very hesitant to make any sort of permanent alterations. Plus, to me things like the painted ring on the grenade are part of that objects history and I wouldn’t want to remove it if it’s been there since WW1.
scarf man
Master Member
Either way it’s dismissive. I’m neither “worried” nor ”bent out of shape” nor any other projected feeling. I’m curious. I’m not using loaded language, just honestly stating my opinions, and looking for the same from others.
No hard feelings, just pointing that out.
It’s personal preference plain and simple and you really don’t need to look beyond that reason.
My reasons are quite simple; it depends on the rarity of the piece and the history.
Do I have an issue butchering up a mass produced Graflex flash or a Casio calculator or a Hunter fishing boot? Nope.
But despite the fact that it’s not accurate I’ve left the name plates on both of my MPPs and haven’t altered a thing on any of my real Obi parts.
All of the grenades in my possession are museum quality and are over 100 years old. They are pieces of history in themselves. What I’ve personally never understood is people who strip these down all because of a little paint band and lose all of the patina that comes from 100 years of natural aging only to try to artificially recreate that patina? Madness! But again, to each their own.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen instances were stripping down and refinishing is the only and best option and I’m all for it; but I’m firmly in the camp of if you don’t need to why do it?
To further this point, Khal’s female BP is NOS. To the best of anyone’s knowledge, there are maybe 4 or 5 NOS female BPs in existence. It would be insanity in my opinion to tarnish that up just to make it more “accurate”.
But I also understand and appreciate the other side of the coin and the desire to replicate a prop to the point of screen accuracy. Why make a thing when it doesn’t look like the thing?? But again, it’s all about personal preference.
My reasons are quite simple; it depends on the rarity of the piece and the history.
Do I have an issue butchering up a mass produced Graflex flash or a Casio calculator or a Hunter fishing boot? Nope.
But despite the fact that it’s not accurate I’ve left the name plates on both of my MPPs and haven’t altered a thing on any of my real Obi parts.
All of the grenades in my possession are museum quality and are over 100 years old. They are pieces of history in themselves. What I’ve personally never understood is people who strip these down all because of a little paint band and lose all of the patina that comes from 100 years of natural aging only to try to artificially recreate that patina? Madness! But again, to each their own.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen instances were stripping down and refinishing is the only and best option and I’m all for it; but I’m firmly in the camp of if you don’t need to why do it?
To further this point, Khal’s female BP is NOS. To the best of anyone’s knowledge, there are maybe 4 or 5 NOS female BPs in existence. It would be insanity in my opinion to tarnish that up just to make it more “accurate”.
But I also understand and appreciate the other side of the coin and the desire to replicate a prop to the point of screen accuracy. Why make a thing when it doesn’t look like the thing?? But again, it’s all about personal preference.
scarf man
Master Member
Edraven99 thank you for your thoughts. I don’t disagree with any of what you’ve said, except your first sentence. Personal preference is exactly the nut I’m trying to crack. Those that wish to elaborate on their personal preferences, and flesh out the reasoning behind them is kind of what I’m interested in.
Let me preface this by saying that it’s not meant to belittle you or be snobbish towards your saber.
So, here goes.
Why leave the red paint on the grenade? It just doesn’t look right for the prop.
Why not weather the clamp according to the reference pics? Trying to replicate the prop and its idiosyncrasies is the goal, no?
If these are personal preferences... could you shed some light as to why?
Overall it’s quite an achievement to hunt down all those rare and expensive bits and bobs, well done.
To the group:
Why do so many of us try to personalize our props, when ideally they should be much more similar than they are? Some would say that’s boring, I’d say that’s excellence, and true replication. Perhaps the line between props and art is too fine, and I’m stuck trying to nudge people one way or the other. Nudging is fine, don’t tell me that people don’t need a nudge now and then.
I do, as I’ve said before, understand the attachment to history, and the desire to “do it like they did”, but not at the sacrifice of accuracy. Replication is about exactitude, it‘s in the definition of the term. Since we are not the original artist, we will undoubtedly bring something of ourselves into the mix, but IMO we need to minimize our influence.
It‘s been ages since I’ve seen someone drill holes in their clamp, or file the bottom edge of their balance pipe, not to mention the scratch between the pommel cubes, or epoxy overflowing from here and there.
None of you guys owe me an explanation, and can leave it at personal preference if you want.
I’m just trying to understand why I seem like such an outlier where accuracy is concerned regarding this prop.
Oh, and those new old stock aircraft washers are not accurate, just vintage.
Well, that turned into a soapbox post, but I stand by it.
Hey!
For me, personally, I was just excited to share some photos of the prop being fully assembled.
I’ve had these parts for a while but only managed to find the time during my Christmas break to assemble it all together into lightsaber form! [emoji851]
It’s by no means a finished project. Since I like to share progress as I go, this is what these photos are - progress. Therefore, don’t consider this totally finished. As time permits, I’ll investigate ways to make it even more accurate like the clamp and grenade etc. [emoji106]
Nevertheless, anyone I have shown this to so far is always so intrigued about the history or origin of the parts. That to me is what makes it so special. The conversation you have with that person as to what it actually is. I feel like leaving the parts as is, adds to that conversation. Like explaining the red band or the cap on the hand wheel.
So, whilst capturing all of the details of the prop is the goal for most prop collectors, there is some added value in keeping things as they are. It may not be monetary value, but, sentimental value for sure.
Since the hard part is out of the way in terms of obtaining the parts, now I’m happy to just dabble here and there over the years adding little touches to it. That’s the fun of it for me.
I think everyone has a different journey and reasons for doing so when they start this project. Each to their own as they say! [emoji6]
I’d like to add that there were multiple iterations/configurations of the prop used on screen. I’d hesitate to fully alter something to a post production photo (our best reference in this case) because we honestly don’t know if that’s how it looked during filming. I like to maintain the option of making either interpretation by not altering the base parts themselves. I do that on much less expensive replica parts.
Mouse Vader
Sr Member
scarf man I'm not sure what you're looking for exist - that is, a common rational involved. I'd be inclined to say that each person will have a personal reason or may not even have thought about that at all while collecting the parts. Much along the lines these are the found parts - collect the parts - assemble. Job done.
Speaking entirely for myself now - I'd love to have an all 'original' found parts saber but I'm just not that obsessed to spend that sort of time or money. Should I ever get one I'd not be altering anything because, as pointed out by others, the parts have historic (&monetary) value in & of themselves. Others collect militaria for instance & removing the red paint would devalue a grenade (historically) for instance. I'd feel it wouldn't be fair to irreversibly change things just for my personal taste in film props. We've already horribly distorted the price of graflex flash guns for instance. I've a big interest in firearms & it makes me cringe every time I see a perfectly good Mauser C93 butchered up to make a working blaster. Deacts are a different matter they've already been butchered. Same goes for other things that are already battered chopped about = fair game. That's how my head works.
Speaking entirely for myself now - I'd love to have an all 'original' found parts saber but I'm just not that obsessed to spend that sort of time or money. Should I ever get one I'd not be altering anything because, as pointed out by others, the parts have historic (&monetary) value in & of themselves. Others collect militaria for instance & removing the red paint would devalue a grenade (historically) for instance. I'd feel it wouldn't be fair to irreversibly change things just for my personal taste in film props. We've already horribly distorted the price of graflex flash guns for instance. I've a big interest in firearms & it makes me cringe every time I see a perfectly good Mauser C93 butchered up to make a working blaster. Deacts are a different matter they've already been butchered. Same goes for other things that are already battered chopped about = fair game. That's how my head works.
EKF5
Active Member
I think I get it. I'm not a recreationist, but I read recreationist threads all the time. I'm fascinated by the level of effort that goes into identifying the source material, the modifications, etc. that led to the final screen used prop, model, costume, etc. That's a level of dedication and effort that so far I haven't been willing to provide (the personal investment in the outcome part).
That said, for me the recreation approach of the original parts, bashed as was done by the makers is a cool effort. But I would still tend to look at the final product as the intended item more than as the prop. What I mean is that I wouldn't recreate sloppy gluing that was ignored because it would never be seen - I would look at the prop as a lightsaber, made with care by a Jedi, and leave out that type of accuracy. It wouldn't end up accurate, but it would meet the intent of the prop (for me).
The secondary arguments made by some folks about the intrinsic value of some of the found parts also speaks to me. If I know something is rare and valuable in its own right, not just as a source for the recreation, I'm unlikely to modify it (but wouldn't tell anyone else what to do). The exception to that for me is if I picked something up just for the modification, but as others have said I'd probably go for a replicated or already damaged version instead of modifying an otherwise intact, valuable, historical item.
At the end of the day this is a hobby and pursuing it at the level that satisfies our personal vision seems to be the goal.
scarf man - I hope this is some of the type of answer you were looking for.
DrkSideTndncies
Well-Known Member
I agree with all the points already made, ranging from different prop variations being used per movie so differing and ever changing nuances within each (not counting post production stills) to the uniqueness of their true intentions as a real world part. But since you seem to more so want to know peoples personal reasons I’ll reiterate the vintage quality of them as my own. While I ultimately didn’t have an issue with using all vintage parts (drilled, screwed, cut, and all) for my 2 Graflex sabers or an MGC for one of my many blasters, I can’t bring myself to “hurt” one of the more rarer items. I like the history of an item and actually display them “as is” along with their movie counter parts. I get a personal satisfaction knowing that I have a part of history when I see each of my vintage displays, which includes various kobolds, a full setup/working Speed Graphic camera with non-pat Graflex Co. flash, MPP camera/flash, and my Obi parts set (as can be seen within this thread). Telling people what the part came from is one thing but actually being able to show them is another. Unless I happen across another full Obi set my parts will remain in their separate unaltered state of originalness...
I'd like to share my little collection so far. I'd also like to publicaly thank Khal for selling me his extra booster and grenade. I was a little nervous seeing if they would pass through customs from the UK to the US, but with the UPS delivery service it worked just fine.( Just don't claim anything as an antique) Thanks Markus for the insight on who to use for delivery. I'm still on the hunt for a cold tap and the crowning jewel, but I'm happy.
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